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Mean416

Mean416

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Eric W on YouTube did something interesting. He put a dominator carburetor on both small block and big block combos.... With a dual plane.

Back to back testing against a proven 4150 carb, with similar flow numbers.

In both cases the dominator... Dominated!

Very curious what you guys think is behind these numbers? Is it flow? Better atomization and distribution? Kind of hard to argue flow given it's on a dual plane but then these numbers are pretty significant.

If you get butt hurt seeing anything not Mopar specific then don't click the link.
 
As someone who has done that test countless times…….. and without even watching the video……. My takeaway from that would be-
that’s what happened with those carbs on those two engines.
“Ymmv”
 
I always heard dual plane tend to need larger carbs, maybe not that larger though.
Like PRH all it tells us is those two engines like it.

Too me I see carbs as a necessary restriction, you want the least restriction that is able to perform as needed (needed can very widely depending on application, goals etc..)
 
Mean416 said:
Very curious what you guys think is behind these numbers? Is it flow?
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I wouldn't say flow cause basically every carb is gonna flow around the same amount be it 500,750,1050.
Definitely less restrictive, less pumping loss.
Mean416 said:
Better atomization
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If it same, similar or even slightly less you would think it could be a plus cause of probably less pumping loss, guess atomization could possibly be better.
Mean416 said:
and distribution?
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Maybe somewhat but the manifold opening is small and not design to take advantage of it.
 
PRH said:
As someone who has done that test countless times…….. and without even watching the video……. My takeaway from that would be-
that’s what happened with those carbs on those two engines.
“Ymmv”
Click to expand...
You've run a dominator on a dual plane? Pretty cool...

To me the eye opener is just how much a difference it actually made. Kind of hard to shrug that off.
 
My experience with a dominator on a dual plain were not
very successful even on a Big block.

The 440 engine in my Valiant is only a 500HP high 10 Second
combo. It was not any slower but not any faster than a 950HP Holley
and the drivability was worse!
 
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It really (always) depends on the combination. Cam size, head porting and valve sizes, headers/exhaust, compression ratio.

It worked for them in the videos. But they weren't driving a car, just dyno.
 
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A 496 could easily use a Dominator anyway. So the base carb was a 1050 as was the Dominator. Pretty much apples to apples there. The intake was a Air gap and when the dumb *** called it a "Eldebrock" I shut off the video. He lost me on that one.
 
273 said:
Richard Holdener put a 1050 Dominator on a stock 292 6cyl Chev, it technically worked on the dyno.
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There's ZERO doubt in my mind that I could tune a 750 Dominator to run well on it. I would need to install my headers though....and that's comin. lol
 
GTX JOHN said:
My experience with a dominator on a dual plain were not
very successful even on a Big block.

The 440 engine in my Valiant is only a 500HP high 10 Second
combo. It was not any slower but not any faster than a 950HP Holley
and the drivability was worse!
Click to expand...
^^^ this. this right here.

will it work? yeah, sure. but where's the trade off?

cool, you made an extra 19hp at 6200rpm but it sucks to drive at anything below 3500.
 
And Mopar Joe also tested a 1050 Dom v a 750 4150 carb on his 440. Dom made 6 hp more.....but was down 6 ft/lbs at 4000 rpm.......
 
273 said:
I always heard dual plane tend to need larger carbs, maybe not that larger though.
Like PRH all it tells us is those two engines like it.

Too me I see carbs as a necessary restriction, you want the least restriction that is able to perform as needed (needed can very widely depending on application, goals etc..)
Click to expand...
Sort of but not really --LOL. This is a major hint right here>>> The best running street engines will produce about -1.5" hg @ WOT AND move close to the same amount of CFM as the carb is rated for.

As has already been stated if you are looking for the least restrictive carb and pull -.5" hg for that last 3hp it will not drive/perform nearly as well as the above example. J.Rob
 
GTX JOHN said:
My experience with a dominator on a dual plain were not
very successful even on a Big block.

The 440 engine in my Valiant is only a 500HP high 10 Second
combo. It was not any slower but not any faster than a 950HP Holley
and the drivability was worse!
Click to expand...
This is the reality right here ^^^^^. J.Rob
 
RAMM said:
Sort of but not really --LOL. This is a major hint right here>>> The best running street engines will produce about -1.5" hg @ WOT AND move close to the same amount of CFM as the carb is rated for.

As has already been stated if you are looking for the least restrictive carb and pull -.5" hg for that last 3hp it will not drive/perform nearly as well as the above example. J.Rob
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But if you feel what is needed is 1.5" hg for street, how's wanting the least restriction to get what's needed wrong ? (needed is 1.5" hg in this case)
 
273 said:
But if you feel what is needed is 1.5" hg for street, how's wanting the least restriction to get what's needed wrong ? (needed is 1.5" hg in this case)
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I never said it was wrong, I'm saying its like chasing a big flow number---If you put 300cfm capable heads on a 450hp engine--that engine will not drive as well as an engine with 225 cfm heads on it making 450hp. The pumping loss most are so focused on is because its low-hanging fruit--easy to remedy. I've seen it so many times I've lost count. Guy tests his engine and we try multiple carbs. Guy leaves and tries biggest dyno sheet carb, Guy calls and complains about how it just doesn't seem to perform well (idle/part throttle etc...) Guy says yeah it pulls real hard when hes got the room to really stand on it. Guy puts on smaller carb that we tuned and produced maybe as much as -1.7" to -2.1" that cost 4hp @ the last 500rpm. Guy calls and tells me it starts better and how its got a stable idle now, part throttle is snappy, and pulls everywhere and he can't tell the difference at the top and Guy actually thinks it is faster now. Cuz it is. But then again my carb guy and I have really been looking at this and documenting this trend for years. A "slightly smaller" carb is always better in the actual real world. J.Rob
 
273 said:
But if you feel what is needed is 1.5" hg for street, how's wanting the least restriction to get what's needed wrong ? (needed is 1.5" hg in this case)
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This B.S. about wanting 0 vac comes from the Nascar world and only applies to them. If I saw actual 0 vac on a carb the engine would not be able to run as there is no fuel flow either. In fact I believe and know that better atomization occurs in more vacuum. Its not just velocity created by a smaller carb , its the increased vac in the intake tract that vaporizes the fuel and also lowers the intake tract air temp. I've just pointed out 3 things going on when moving to a smaller carb. J.Rob
 
RAMM said:
This B.S. about wanting 0 vac comes from the Nascar world and only applies to them. If I saw actual 0 vac on a carb the engine would not be able to run as there is no fuel flow either. In fact I believe and know that better atomization occurs in more vacuum. Its not just velocity created by a smaller carb , its the increased vac in the intake tract that vaporizes the fuel and also lowers the intake tract air temp. I've just pointed out 3 things going on when moving to a smaller carb. J.Rob
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When I said least restriction, I didn't mean no restrictions, I meant generally the least restriction that will perform how you want. Whatever that want is.

Eg. Say 650 gives you everything you want a 750 would only gain a couple of hp and a 500 kills 20 and gives a similar experience driveability wise. To me the 650 would be the least restriction that gives you what you want, but now lets say the 750 actually gains 15 hp across the meat of the powerband but gives up some driveability, now some wouldn't overly care about the driveability so the 750 is the choice and for other on the same combo would prefer the 650 but there's no reason to choose the 500. The choice is depending on what's needed/wanted 650 vs 750.
 
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