Doug Thorley Headers with SB Trick Flow Heads

[cpearce]

Finally. I've been trying to figure out the make/model of the headers I have on the car, haven't had any luck. But once I had pics and a model # it was easy to confirm.

If you are referring to the Hookers, there will be a 5303 stamped on the flange.

 

[pishta]

My favorite non W2 header is the Hooker 5303 which is no longer made. They couldn't sell them because A) they are slip together and 2) everyone says they are too big. Neither of which is true.

Good, cause I got a pair! Never gonna fit a >66 A now that I modded them for a 65 but the slip fit collector is genius: You snake and screw the tubes all in there with the motor already in and then you barely bolt them on. Next you slide the collector onto the loose pipes and then tighten the flange bolts. The system hangers wont let the collector slip off and you got a superior big *** pipe header for your stroker or high winding LA. Pro-parts headers for the B/RB A crowd had tabs that overlapped and took a lock bolt, just tack weld those on if your scared the collector will blow off. If you think you'll have a leak, just run a thin smear of ultra copper RTV in there, seals it up good. Multi pipe headers are also easy to mod as its just one pipe to take out and ding or shorten/bend/? and then you can slide it in and see your results. lather-rinse-repeat.

 

[lead69]

The bottom line here for me is, I will buy the cheap headers next time as long as they are coated and have some sort of track record with end user's. After this nightmare with Doug's I can't see beating up 600.00 street headers.I just have a hard time thinking my car is some how this fare out of spec. I have done everything I can think of to fix this mess and have made a little head way but these things are going to hit the T/bars and that's it.I have raised the motor 1/2", New trans mount, shimmed it 3/8" up,there just to wide. Some say It can't be the TFS heads that are a little wider, I am at the point I just don't care. I don't drive my car's enough that a cheaper header would be fine in my case. A few year's ago I bought a pair of OGX long tubes for one of my Fox body Mustangs with GT40P heads and just a small dimple where the steering shaft comes down they fit really nice and are Polhised stainless steel for about 200.00. I think they had something for the A body if I remember right. I know I will get a hard time about OBX but that's ok.

I am sorry to hear this, this is what happened with the set I mentioned.I have been extremely happy with dougs in the past but the last set left me pretty unhappy especially with their customer service so I understand the frustration.It didn't help much now that their prices are much higher,where is the quality to match?..

 

[pishta]

I have a brand new set to go on my Duster. Going to dyno engine with both these, and the Stahl headers it currently has.

View attachment 1715414544

View attachment 1715414545

Are those the 5302? I got ones like these...have to rebuild the #3 tube to clear my 65 steering box. Modded #5 to hug the block more to go behind the steering box. I got them for $25 as the bottoms of the passenger side collector is scraped flat and the pipes look like D's. But the collector comes off to reform the pipes, winner winner! IIRC Hookers are welded in Mexico..maybe they should be called 'Talonador'.

 

[yellow rose]

Are those the 5302? I got ones like these...have to rebuild the #3 tube to clear my 65 steering box. Modded #5 to hug the block more to go behind the steering box. I got them for $25 as the bottoms of the passenger side collector is scraped flat and the pipes look like D's. But the collector comes off to reform the pipes, winner winner! IIRC Hookers are welded in Mexico..maybe they should be called 'Talonador'.
View attachment 1715414861

I snatch those headers up every time I find them. And I keep a bunch of 1.875 tube here to repair them as you already know...they are always flat.

My favorite non W2 header for sure. Pain the arse to get in the car but they fit nice and make power once they are on.

 

[67 gt]

I feel your pain needed to modify tubes 5&7 paid $650 coated than to get them repaired paid another $600 after all was done. Criminal ,see bottom of headers had to massage them for torsion bar clearance tube 7 was hitting steering column and no matter what I did it just wouldn’t fit cut half way down 5-7 tubes and swapped them around ,it gave me the room.

 

[j par]

I feel your pain needed to modify tubes 5&7 paid $650 coated than to get them repaired paid another $600 after all was done. Criminal ,see bottom of headers had to massage them for torsion bar clearance tube 7 was hitting steering column and no matter what I did it just wouldn’t fit cut half way down 5-7 tubes and swapped them around ,it gave me the room.

View attachment 1715414938

View attachment 1715414939

Good heavens...

 

[cpearce]

I feel your pain needed to modify tubes 5&7 paid $650 coated than to get them repaired paid another $600 after all was done. Criminal ,see bottom of headers had to massage them for torsion bar clearance tube 7 was hitting steering column and no matter what I did it just wouldn’t fit cut half way down 5-7 tubes and swapped them around ,it gave me the room.

View attachment 1715414938

View attachment 1715414939

I would have needed to be sedated! That is unreal!

 

[Dennis Hilliard]

Called Trick Flow today asking if maybe the head is ever so slightly wider on the exhaust side, I spoke to Howard and his answer was, I don't think so, have not heard of that. Well with that, someone who has a TFS head and a stock one on the bench could maybe find a way to check for sure. So the question is not really answered yet. There you have it.

 

[j par]

I don't think so! Wow!...

 

[dogbreath]

sum ting wong

 

[lead69]

Called Trick Flow today asking if maybe the head is ever so slightly wider on the exhaust side, I spoke to Howard and his answer was, I don't think so, have not heard of that. Well with that, someone who has a TFS head and a stock one on the bench could maybe find a way to check for sure. So the question is not really answered yet. There you have it.

Even if it is it would be so little it would have no effect.I had edelbrock heads,stock heads and now trickflows all with dougs headers and have not seen any substantial difference between them (the stock heads and trickflows same headers same car).You have to understand the tech doesnt have a blueprint in front of him and there are production tolerances as well.If the engine is right,the mounts are right and the overall fitment is right it is the headers.

 

[j par]

Even if it is it would be so little it would have no effect.I had edelbrock heads,stock heads and now trickflows all with dougs headers and have not seen any substantial difference between them (the stock heads and trickflows same headers same car).You have to understand the tech doesnt have a blueprint in front of him and there are production tolerances as well.If the engine is right,the mounts are right and the overall fitment is right it is the headers.

You do realize if the angle of the header surface was changed even one degree that would translate into a substantial amount of movement at the other end of the header...?..

 

[lead69]

You do realize if the angle of the header surface was changed even one degree that would translate into a substantial amount of movement at the other end of the header...?..

Check your stock heads and report back to me lol.

 

[j par]

Check your stock heads and report back to me lol.

A cheap Summit headers fit great on my stock heads one ding on the passenger side at the torsion bar... actually that was after using them for a couple years and my friend seen it at the lineup shop and used his Ratatat tool...

 

[lead69]

A cheap Summit headers fit great on my stock heads one ding on the passenger side at the torsion bar... actually that was after using them for a couple years and my friend seen it at the lineup shop and used his Ratatat tool...

Given the severity of the ops header fitment issues if all the engine/trans measurements are right it is the headers.I had the same issues with a set of dougs and I also had a cheap set on my old duster that I had to beat the hell out of and eventually replaced them with another cheap set on the same car/same engine and they fit fine,no issues.


That's the thing with this is even the stock stuff isn't perfect but if the engine is in right and the headers are built right they should have enough room built into them that they will be close but clear even when things are not perfect.We all know that's not always the case but until the boys at nascar decide to build every part for our cars from the ground up we are stuck making it work.

 

[Dennis Hilliard]

It would be great if someone would do a install with say a Summit header and then a Doug's back to back on a A body. If I were reading this forum and was trying to decide what header to buy it would not be Doug's, with the chance of beating headers up just go with the cheaper brand. If I were to do it again I would just but a cheap one and make it work. Polished stainless steel on Ebay for under 200.00 shipped. I bought OBX long tubes a few years ago for one of my Fox body cars and they are very nice polished stainless steel.One little dimple to clear the steering shaft and they fit nice.Most of these headers on E bay are just copy's of the headman's.

 

[MOPAROFFICIAL]

Hey we live and learn. There's a lot of people who have absolutely great success with those Doug's headers. (Burger King) < (LOL voice command) people say how they don't touch anything and are easy to put in..
Of course I bought the 8-quart milodon Deep oil pan. Then when I had to cut my K frame dented all up to make it fit over the oil pump and that leaked from the factory well because according to their rap in California they can't use solve it anymore to test them.. as a matter of fact when he answered the phone and I told him what happened he quote said "not again!!"...
Live and learn I wouldn't buy one of those pile of crap pants again. Of course I get out here and everybody tells me well that's a known problem...

Anyone buying a 8qrt pan isnt trying hard to be very stock or unmodified. That's point of buying/needing that pan, you're beyond stock. You have to lop off the pass side front corner and weld a flat pc. over it about 3 1/2 point to point to point triangle...then the drivers side where the sump is seamed...you have to, or should, cut a line where it pops out a hair...and then pop it in some with a mallet...and then weld that seam up... okay... now you are about ready, right after you..notch or drill a 3/4 hole or half moon from the pass side front sump baffle so that dip stick will go in straight and give you an accurate reading.

If the name is on a banner hanging on the wall of any race track... you're not in Kansas anymore...

 

[j par]

Anyone buying a 8qrt pan isnt trying hard to be very stock or unmodified. That's point of buying/needing that pan, you're beyond stock. You have to lop off the pass dude front corner and weld a flat pc. over it about 3 1/2 point to point to point triangle...then the drivers side where the sump is seamed...you have to, or should, cut a line where it pops out a hair...and then pop it in some with a mallet...and then weld that seam up... okay... now you are about ready, right after you..notch or drill a 3/4 hole or half moon from the pass side front sump baffle so that dip stick will go in straight and give you an accurate reading.

If the name is on a banner hanging on the wall of any race track... you're not in Kansas anymore...

Again I was naive I don't think I needed that pan whatsoever. I was talked into it by my engine builder. Just to cover his ***... Probably come to find out in a long-running anyways...

 

[Dragnut]

What I get out of all this is, if there is a good chance your going to have to beat the headers up just buy the cheap ones.If I had only Known.

Hey Dennis... im going thru the same thing... the Trick Flow heads have to be wider... i have only 3 1/4 from the head to the inner fender on the passenger side... the Dougs header measures 4 1/8 wide at the flange to the outside of the bend. I measured my engine centerline from the crank to the frame and it spot on. Im at a standstill with this i cant return them because they have been “massaged” so im thinking of cutting them and making them the width that i need...

 

[Dennis Hilliard]

I am sorry to here that. I still think that the TFS head is not matching the stock head where the exhaust bolts up. I can't believe a header can be this fare off, I ended up using motor mounts from a conv whice raised the motor almost 1/2" and they still hit everything! I feel the pain .Cheap headers next time, I called TFS and never got a clear anwser, so until someone can bench one with a stock one we will never know for sure.

 

[yellow rose]

I am sorry to here that. I still think that the TFS head is not matching the stock head where the exhaust bolts up. I can't believe a header can be this fare off, I ended up using motor mounts from a conv whice raised the motor almost 1/2" and they still hit everything! I feel the pain .Cheap headers next time, I called TFS and never got a clear anwser, so until someone can bench one with a stock one we will never know for sure.

I'm not sure what happened in your case, but I've been following it.

I can tell you I've never owned a set of headers that you can raise the engine a half inch in the chassis and have the headers fit. There just isn't room.

Since 1980 I've used 5204 or 5303 Hooker headers on any A body I build. They always fit, make more power and don't drag the ground.

But, IIRC the 5204 is now about 800 bucks and the 5302's were 850ish in 1984.

Too bad they don't make the 5303 any more. Any decent 340 should run them, and any stroker it's about mandatory.


Edit: I just looked and Jegs has the painted 5204's for under 700 bucks. Not a bad price for that header. But you can't have power steering with them.

 

[Dennis Hilliard]

I will tell you this, if I had not raised the motor the tubes were jamed tight against the T/bars. Because of the angle they run as they turn down raising the motor helped the problem, it did not take care of it 100% but did help.The Dougs fit like sh-t with TFS heads.I am not new to this car stuff and never had a header fit this bad. I own a number of different brands in my collection and some have headers and the only one would get close to this mess is a big block Fe 428 in my 64 Fairlane, But one look in that engine bay you might excuse a couple dents and those are 13/4" tubes .I am not the first guy here who has raised there motor with the same problem.

 

[yellow rose]

I will tell you this, if I had not raised the motor the tubes were jamed tight against the T/bars. Because of the angle they run as they turn down raising the motor helped the problem, it did not take care of it 100% but did help.The Dougs fit like sh-t with TFS heads.I am not new to this car stuff and never had a header fit this bad. I own a number of different brands in my collection and some have headers and the only one would get close to this mess is a big block Fe 428 in my 64 Fairlane, But one look in that engine bay you might excuse a couple dents and those are 13/4" tubes .I am not the first guy here who has raised there motor with the same problem.

That is weird.

 

[Dennis Hilliard]

Weird to some maybe ,but it sucks to me. If indeed there is something going on with the TFS heads that would explane this mess. If anyone has put those heads on with Dougs and have not had problems. please post here with some pictures. No header should fit this bad and be sold. I know of 3 people here who has put TFS heads on and all of us have major problems. Don't you think that is weird?