Dougs
- Thread starter solracmopar
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mullinax95
Well-Known Member
Glad you got it straighten out. Summit seizes to amaze me sometimes.
solracmopar
Well-Known Member
If anything positive should come out of this thread its to not take a hammer to your headers, be patient, and if at all possible, buy your stuff from Summit. They have outstanding customer service and will price match any part your looking to buy. I'm honestly still in shock that I got a brand new set of headers for $30!!!!!!!
In retrospect if I had bought my headers anywhere else there's no doubt I would of been stuck..
In retrospect if I had bought my headers anywhere else there's no doubt I would of been stuck..
solracmopar
Well-Known Member
Sorry for the crappy pics, but here are the new set of Dougs installed with plenty of clearance 
Good to see you got them in. :thumrigh:
solracmopar
Well-Known Member
Amazing indeed! Big thanks to Marland for helping me see this thru.. Hoping to get the motor cranked this week!
562bigdaddy
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Hey everybody something is bothering me. My 71 uses the sandwich type motor mounts and my 73 uses a different type. Doesn't solracmopar have a 73 ? He should not have used a sandwich type motor mount originally. I know it works now but was that the problem? My 73 motor mounts are definitely taller than the sandwich type mounts.
Burntorange70
Well-Known Member
I can't believe that Doug's wouldn't retrun the headers. Sure you dinged them to make them fit...BUT if they were made properly, you wouldn't have had to "ding" them in the first place. They should have returned these if they were not made properly. Either way, they are scrap. Just because you "dinged" them does not make it ok for them to run crap at their plant...
You should have asked Dougs if we have to go to their plant and show them how to make quality parts and get their process under control. I hate how companies push us around because we only are buying one part a piece. This would never fly if they tried to send a part like that directly to a Chrysler Assembly plant. Supplier Quality would have shoved them back down their throat and written a defective material ticket (DM) against them. Three DM's in one year, and they will not be given any future contracts...
They would have had to identify every part in that lot (batch) and quarantine it and send in certified "good" stock to replace it. If they could not get their "clean" stock to the assembly plant in time, and caused them to stop the whole vehicle assembly line, they were charged $10,000 per minute that the assembly line could not be run because of their stock problems. That was part of my job for 10 years, finding "out of spec parts" and then getting them fixed. Once I proved the parts were out of spec, I would get Supplier Quality involved and let them do their "thing".
shadango
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Krazykuda...I agree that companies sometimes throw their weight around a bi...some companies these days have ZERO as far as customer service. But still as a consumer we have some duty to all we can BEFORE claiming its the product.
"Ding" is an understatement....LOL Did you see the pics? To have to smash them THAT much means that SOMETHING is very very wrong....either the headers , the car they are going or perhaps both.
Doug's cannot know what the scenario their product is going into 100% of the time....so sometime there could be issues. They design it to the stock setup and probably have a little leeway built in.
The assembly line example is a good one IF Solracmopar's car is 100% stock, to which Doug's probably designed the headers to begin with.
Sounds to me that he has a different year k-member and had different mounts than would have been used...so maybe its that combo that messed things up...or maybe the original headers were waaaaaaay wrong. Or, again, maybe it was a combination.
From the sounds of it, Solracmopar didnt call Dougs when he FIRST had the issue (or did you Solracmopar?) but waited til after he smashed them. Had he sent the first ones back and had the same result the second time then he would have known it was his car setup (since Doug's is known for having excellent fit).
Solracmopar, did you try fitting the headers with the old "sandwich" mounts you tried the first time (that would verify if it was the headers or not) or did you just install the new taller mounts first? I am guessing the latter, right?
So now we can never know if it was Doug's fault or your car's setup.
I used to tend to do the same thing sometimes....get anxious and jump in feet first and sacrifice future options.....wasted a lot of $$$$ that way.....I guess that is why I tend to overthink stuff now...and I STILL manage to screw stuff up. LOL
Thank God for this forum and the cuda-challenger forum....My car is to the point it is because of all the great folks at both places, with info like what has been posted in this thread.....I am sure it will save someone later down the line a lot of hassle!
Man, Solracmopar, you lucked out with Summit! Glad it worked out for you!
"Ding" is an understatement....LOL Did you see the pics? To have to smash them THAT much means that SOMETHING is very very wrong....either the headers , the car they are going or perhaps both.
Doug's cannot know what the scenario their product is going into 100% of the time....so sometime there could be issues. They design it to the stock setup and probably have a little leeway built in.
The assembly line example is a good one IF Solracmopar's car is 100% stock, to which Doug's probably designed the headers to begin with.
Sounds to me that he has a different year k-member and had different mounts than would have been used...so maybe its that combo that messed things up...or maybe the original headers were waaaaaaay wrong. Or, again, maybe it was a combination.
From the sounds of it, Solracmopar didnt call Dougs when he FIRST had the issue (or did you Solracmopar?) but waited til after he smashed them. Had he sent the first ones back and had the same result the second time then he would have known it was his car setup (since Doug's is known for having excellent fit).
Solracmopar, did you try fitting the headers with the old "sandwich" mounts you tried the first time (that would verify if it was the headers or not) or did you just install the new taller mounts first? I am guessing the latter, right?
So now we can never know if it was Doug's fault or your car's setup.
I used to tend to do the same thing sometimes....get anxious and jump in feet first and sacrifice future options.....wasted a lot of $$$$ that way.....I guess that is why I tend to overthink stuff now...and I STILL manage to screw stuff up. LOL
Thank God for this forum and the cuda-challenger forum....My car is to the point it is because of all the great folks at both places, with info like what has been posted in this thread.....I am sure it will save someone later down the line a lot of hassle!
Man, Solracmopar, you lucked out with Summit! Glad it worked out for you!
I don't fully agree with that statement.
I have spent time in both design and manufacturing in the auto business. It is the company and their engineer's responsibility to make sure that their product fits in all cases. This means that they should seek out the worst case scenario and fit to that.
My first time in manufacturing plant, the company made a "slight" change to the bolt that held the rear bumper on. When the change hit the plant, we found out that the "flag" on the bolt that was used to prevent rotation in assembly so only one tool was needed to tighten the nut, would sometimes rotate and cut one of the wires on the trailer harness for factory trailer tow trucks.
We had to jump through hoops to correct this, so as not to send out trucks with a short in the trailer wiring. When we identified the solution to the problem, we had to test build it on ALL VARIATIONS THAT COULD BE BUILT. This meant that I had to verify that it would not create a problem on all frames with and without trailer tow. Luckily the plant I worked at only built half of the possible variations, but I had to make sure that I tested it on ALL 12 OF THE FRAMES THAT WE BUILT! (There were 24 different frames for all variations of the truck). Someone in the other plant that built the other 12 frame variations had to do the same at his plant. Not all 12 frames are used evenly. Some frames are used more often than others. I had to hunt down and find all 12 frames that were being built and wait at the bumper station to verify that the new bolt flag did not catch the wires. In some cases we had to wait an hour or two for the rarer frames to get to that station to verify them.
Luckily our new fix worked and we pushed the change through as fast as we could. After that "hiccup", they made it mandatory that EVERY CHANGE HAD TO BE TEST BUILT BY AN ENGINEER IN MY GROUP BEFORE ALLOWING IT TO BE RELEASED. Even a "simple nut and bolt change"...
When Doug's or any header company designs a header, they should seek out one car of each variation to test fit it on that they plan on releasing it for. In this case they should have used a 67 - 72 power steering and manual steering car and a 73 -76 power and manual steering car to test fit and verify that the parts fit correctly - MINIMUM. The price of the cars gets to be written off on their taxes as part of the research and development cost for developing new products. It's a cost of doing business.
What bothered me on the one post where he spoke to Dougs and they ADMITTED THAT THE PARTS MAY NOT BE MADE CORRECTLY, but took the easy way out and said that since he dinged/smashed them to fit, they would not warranty/return them. The manufacturer should be able to identify a bad part and prevent it from getting shipped to a customer. At the end of the manufacturing line in the plant where these headers are made should have a fixture where they clamp the header into a stand, and then check certain critical points on the tubes where the clearance is critical. This would verify that all of the tubes are properly located and fit before shipping the part to the customer. If they do not have a fixture that does this, they are not a responsible or good manufacturer to do business with. I have dealt with similiar parts in my time in the automotive business. It was part of my job to go the the manufacturers of my parts and inspect/question/challenge/ and approve fixtures like these before they were allowed to ship parts to us. It is part of their certification. If the company could not prove to me that these fixtures were capable of identifying parts out of spec, I wouldn't sign off on their certification and they could not ship parts until it was corrected. Part of the certification was to run a known good and known bad part through the fit fixture and make sure that the fixture could approve a part in spec, and reject a part just out of spec. If the header/tubing manufacturer does not have a fixture that does this, his process is not set up properly. A properly set up line will be able to catch bad parts before they can be shipped out to the customer.
That is why it is much harder to be an OEM supplier than an aftermarket supplier.
And good for Summit for replacing the headers for him. That is a good company to support and do business with.
These cars were built with horrible tolerances. My Duster has rear wheelwells with 1/2" difference in the tire they can hold. The engine compartments are just as bad.
bad440
everything,all the time..
lol,my car is the same in the rear,1/2" difference.those dougs headers look quite a bit like tti's don't they?
Other way around... dougs were built LONG before tti was even around. Funny the tti collectors exit in the same location as dougs. Hmmm
sorry but i cant see it,big diference even considering how little space there is to build the pipes diferent. both keep all there pipes above the centerlink and both have collectors pointing in simmilar directions thats where the similaritys are..
here´s a pic to compare:
bad440
everything,all the time..
i knew that,didn't think when posting,dougs were advertised in a 1969 hot rod mag i have.should have known...lol
SRT_DSTRHOLC
Well-Known Member
haha no lie!
solracmopar
Well-Known Member
I did call Dougs when I first had the issue. They told me it was "very likely" that I had a bad set. Tech support asked I email them pictures, which I did, and to this day never got a response back. So maybe I took the hammer to those headers out of frustration to the idiots at Dougs. All they could tell me is the jig they've been using has been the same since the mid 70's and that they rarely get complaints. If anything could be wrong they said, it would be in the weld at the factory.
To answer your question, yes, I have always had the sandwich style mounts. My K member is out of a 72 Valiant which is pre spool mount.
solracmopar
Well-Known Member
Its refreshing to hear this point of view. Considering those headers cost so much money you'd think A) better customer service and B) better quality leaving the plant. I could see it if I had spent $150 on a set of Hookers or some BS but come on. I spent the cash because everyone and their mother said Dougs would fit without a hitch. Good thing Summit stepped in to save the day.
how low do these hang down? i need a new set really bad! i have hookers that were on the car when i bought it. raced this weekend and now three tubes are flat! i am torn between TTI's or the dougs. i want to drop my car another inch if i can,so i need something tucked up. can you take some pics of the underside showing how they hang down. thanks!
cdawglean
Well-Known Member
If you go to this thread I have the Dougs installed on my 340 70 Dart and I have some pics there showing the bottoms.
http://www.forabodiesonly.com/mopar/showthread.php?t=90717
mullinax95
Well-Known Member
67 Barracuda TTis
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