Johnny Dart
Well-Known Member
sounds good
Easiest/Cheapest way to a 4bbl 318?
- Thread starter daginsu
- Start date
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2 Darts
A-body Addicted
This isn't far from what I have in the Demon; 302s & Performer on a 318. I'm @ 218/228 @ .050 and .441" lift. I'm also using a 625 cfm AFB. Also went to 67-70 spec stock pistons for higher compression ratio. I would expect your setup to have better top end, while my forte would be throttle response at lower speeds. Which is better? Depends on how you plan to use the car most of the time.
To get the most out of your combination, I'd think you'd need at least a 3.55:1 (I'm building this for my Demon.) With the engine being happier in the upper end of the rev band, you may want to consider a 3.91 or even a 4.11. These will be a PITA for highway use... but again, it depends on how you intend to use the car most of the time.
Consider, too, what size tire you will/want to use. The overall rolling circumference of the tire affects the "effective" gear ratio. The tire companies quote tire diameter which is just as good for comparison purposes. A larger tire diameter results in a lower (numerical) "effective" gear ratio because there are fewer tire revolutions per mile.
Thanks everyone again for your input.
2darts: FYI, the tires currently on the rear are 255/60/15 Firestone Indy 500s and are supposedly 27.1" tall x 8.2" wide. I just bought the tires and wheels, so I probably won't be changing them for a while.
Oh yeah, and someone was taking pictures of the cars when I was at the track a couple weekends ago. They snapped one of my Scamp as it was leaving and it had quite a bit of raise and twist for a totally stock 2bbl car. If I can find it I'll post it on here somewhere.
2darts: FYI, the tires currently on the rear are 255/60/15 Firestone Indy 500s and are supposedly 27.1" tall x 8.2" wide. I just bought the tires and wheels, so I probably won't be changing them for a while.
Oh yeah, and someone was taking pictures of the cars when I was at the track a couple weekends ago. They snapped one of my Scamp as it was leaving and it had quite a bit of raise and twist for a totally stock 2bbl car. If I can find it I'll post it on here somewhere.
Ok, I found the picture with a little help from my brother. Check it out:
http://photodemon.win.net/Racing/100210/pages/_DSC0913.htm
http://photodemon.win.net/Racing/100210/pages/_DSC0913.htm
You honestly probably don't want to know. I was ALMOST the slowest car in Trophy class...thank God there was a front-wheel drive Olds there
I think the best that it ran was like 11.06 and 62 mph (1/8th mile), and the best 60 ft was like 2.42. But like I said, it's totally stock except for the wheels and tires, and I replaced the shocks a month or so ago. I was also letting it shift itself because I was trying to be as consistent as possible.
And it was pretty damn consistent:
Sat, Noon - 11.065
Sun, 1pm - 11.079
Sun, 4pm - 11.089
And the Wed before that it went 11.142 and the very next run went a 11.144. I was surprised to say the least.
If only I had been as consistent as the car...
T67POWER
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WARNING...I WAS UP LATE AND WROTE YOU A SMALL BOOK TO READ.:read2:
If you do this, you won't be wasting any money, and it might be kind of fun.
Do everything in steps so you can be sure of what your getting out of your changes to the car.
1) I would put headers and mufflers on the car first.
I would say run it as a two barrel with the headers, but only if it's not too lean because of the headers.
2)Then i would change the springs in your distributor to get a performance ignition curve.\\\\\ mancini racing has the springs and or summit or jegs.
This lets more ignition timing come in faster to give you more power off the line(60 foot time)
Use a advanced timing light and give the engine at least 28 TO 30 total timing.
>>>If you run 87 octane you will most likely have to move up to 89 or 91.
I always leave the vacuum advance off after my distributors are modified, but running the vacuum advance -- if set up right --does help with fuel economy.
3)Then i would get a holley 650 double pumper and a performer intake from edelbrock.\\\ intake ports are the correct size for 318 heads.
Use a 4 hole 1/2 inch spacer under the carb.
At this point the engine will run great and won't perform bad ,even with the stock cam.
4)When you buy a cam, you will have a limit of how big a cam it can be,first by the gear ratio in the rear end of your car, and also by the stall speed of the stock torque converter.( about 1800 to 2000 rpms)
I would get a cam with about .440 to 455 lift and a tight center line of about 108.
If you don't mind a little bit of a rumble and shake at idle then keep the center line lower.
This will help you with the tight stall speed of your converter and the higher gear ratio, i would think, your car came with from the factory.
A lower center line will make more low end torque.
I would run a cam that is in the range of 218 to 225 @ 50.
You might not need to BUT..........
REPLACE THE STOCK VALVE SPRINGS WITH A PERFORMANCE SPRING THAT MATCHES THE CAM AND WHILE YOUR THERE REPLACE YOUR VALVE SEALS ALSO.
If your going to pull the heads then do the springs and seals when they are off.
I would check the heads for cracks and then bowl port them.
Cut the heads .030 and run a .020 thousands shim under the rocker arm shafts.You will have .010 more pre-load on your lifters then stock and it will work fine.
Lap the valves in to make sure you have a good valve seal with the seat area of the head.
Make sure the valve springs are installed at the correct height.
This is done using shims under the valve springs.
There are a lot of cams, and i really can't say that this ones great or this one's no good, but the guide lines i just gave you will get you in the right direction,
If you want a smoother idle and a little less peak power, then get a higher center line cam with about 112 to 114.
It will be a flatter power curve but less peak power.
Just don't go any bigger then i am suggesting of it will be slower.
@ 50 is the basic window at understanding the size of a cam.
---------------------------------------------------------------
If you put a cheetah valve body in the transmission, so it would shift at the same time you shifted manually, and bought yourself a nice new sun tach ,to shift at the same rpm every time, you might wind up with a trophy.
You could just leave it alone and beat everyone at the track with a stock engine with headers and a performance valve body in the transmission.
The engine sounds like it's in great shape.
Try the headers with the two barrel,cheetah 17676 valve body.sun tach 2.
It's going mid 16 seconds in the quarter now.
The headers alone will get you in the 15 second range.
The valve body will shift faster and let you shift it manually.
It was shifting to fast for sure in drive and now holding it out, to at least 5000, will improve your time.
The cam and head work will get you in the 14 second range.
Gears and a good performance converter will get you in the 13 second.
range.
These are just estimates but it could be slower or faster.
I would laugh if the car went 14 seconds with the two barrel.
It just might if you could get bigger jets for it or have them drilled out.
Alright----------- i have to go.:sleepy2: GOOD LUCK \\ HAVE FUN.:-D
If you do this, you won't be wasting any money, and it might be kind of fun.
Do everything in steps so you can be sure of what your getting out of your changes to the car.
1) I would put headers and mufflers on the car first.
I would say run it as a two barrel with the headers, but only if it's not too lean because of the headers.
2)Then i would change the springs in your distributor to get a performance ignition curve.\\\\\ mancini racing has the springs and or summit or jegs.
This lets more ignition timing come in faster to give you more power off the line(60 foot time)
Use a advanced timing light and give the engine at least 28 TO 30 total timing.
>>>If you run 87 octane you will most likely have to move up to 89 or 91.
I always leave the vacuum advance off after my distributors are modified, but running the vacuum advance -- if set up right --does help with fuel economy.
3)Then i would get a holley 650 double pumper and a performer intake from edelbrock.\\\ intake ports are the correct size for 318 heads.
Use a 4 hole 1/2 inch spacer under the carb.
At this point the engine will run great and won't perform bad ,even with the stock cam.
4)When you buy a cam, you will have a limit of how big a cam it can be,first by the gear ratio in the rear end of your car, and also by the stall speed of the stock torque converter.( about 1800 to 2000 rpms)
I would get a cam with about .440 to 455 lift and a tight center line of about 108.
If you don't mind a little bit of a rumble and shake at idle then keep the center line lower.
This will help you with the tight stall speed of your converter and the higher gear ratio, i would think, your car came with from the factory.
A lower center line will make more low end torque.
I would run a cam that is in the range of 218 to 225 @ 50.
You might not need to BUT..........
REPLACE THE STOCK VALVE SPRINGS WITH A PERFORMANCE SPRING THAT MATCHES THE CAM AND WHILE YOUR THERE REPLACE YOUR VALVE SEALS ALSO.
If your going to pull the heads then do the springs and seals when they are off.
I would check the heads for cracks and then bowl port them.
Cut the heads .030 and run a .020 thousands shim under the rocker arm shafts.You will have .010 more pre-load on your lifters then stock and it will work fine.
Lap the valves in to make sure you have a good valve seal with the seat area of the head.
Make sure the valve springs are installed at the correct height.
This is done using shims under the valve springs.
There are a lot of cams, and i really can't say that this ones great or this one's no good, but the guide lines i just gave you will get you in the right direction,
If you want a smoother idle and a little less peak power, then get a higher center line cam with about 112 to 114.
It will be a flatter power curve but less peak power.
Just don't go any bigger then i am suggesting of it will be slower.
@ 50 is the basic window at understanding the size of a cam.
---------------------------------------------------------------
If you put a cheetah valve body in the transmission, so it would shift at the same time you shifted manually, and bought yourself a nice new sun tach ,to shift at the same rpm every time, you might wind up with a trophy.
You could just leave it alone and beat everyone at the track with a stock engine with headers and a performance valve body in the transmission.
The engine sounds like it's in great shape.
Try the headers with the two barrel,cheetah 17676 valve body.sun tach 2.
It's going mid 16 seconds in the quarter now.
The headers alone will get you in the 15 second range.
The valve body will shift faster and let you shift it manually.
It was shifting to fast for sure in drive and now holding it out, to at least 5000, will improve your time.
The cam and head work will get you in the 14 second range.
Gears and a good performance converter will get you in the 13 second.
range.
These are just estimates but it could be slower or faster.
I would laugh if the car went 14 seconds with the two barrel.
It just might if you could get bigger jets for it or have them drilled out.
Alright----------- i have to go.:sleepy2: GOOD LUCK \\ HAVE FUN.:-D
T67POWER:
Don't apologize for that post...that was full of a whole lot of great information! I'm going to have to print it off when I get to work tomorrow
The only things that might slightly vary from your plan are the fact that I already have the Holley 670 (vac sec/elec choke) so I'll be using that until it gets too small...which according to Holley the carb is good up to 400hp.
Also, we believe the valve seals are worn out because it smokes every time you start it up if it has been sitting for a little while. We had plans on fixing that this winter so I may go ahead and do the cam/springs/seals sooner rather than later.
And, it definitely has a miss (worse since we changed the timing) that my Dad believes is due to the previously mentioned valve seals fouling out a spark plug or two. I could have easily made it into the 10's if I had figured that out sooner.
Again...thanks for all the info. It's great being able to get so much advice...and it's FREE! Haha.
Don't apologize for that post...that was full of a whole lot of great information! I'm going to have to print it off when I get to work tomorrow
The only things that might slightly vary from your plan are the fact that I already have the Holley 670 (vac sec/elec choke) so I'll be using that until it gets too small...which according to Holley the carb is good up to 400hp.
Also, we believe the valve seals are worn out because it smokes every time you start it up if it has been sitting for a little while. We had plans on fixing that this winter so I may go ahead and do the cam/springs/seals sooner rather than later.
And, it definitely has a miss (worse since we changed the timing) that my Dad believes is due to the previously mentioned valve seals fouling out a spark plug or two. I could have easily made it into the 10's if I had figured that out sooner.
Again...thanks for all the info. It's great being able to get so much advice...and it's FREE! Haha.
T67POWER
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I'm glad to see that it will help you out.
Your miss fire on the engine could be a spark plug, like you said, but it also could be a bad wire or distributor cap.
I just helped a friend of mine fix his 318.
It was running ruff and it turned out to be the cap.
When you increase the engines timing, and make the engine have more power, it will sound even worse then before, if you have non firing cylinders.
When all the cylinders are working together, it gives the engine a smooth balance when running.
A great running engine will get smoother as the rpm's are increased
Get one heat range hotter for the spark plug and a new cap and rotor.
A v8 that burns a little oil will run much better with a hotter plug and advanced timing.
Your miss fire on the engine could be a spark plug, like you said, but it also could be a bad wire or distributor cap.
I just helped a friend of mine fix his 318.
It was running ruff and it turned out to be the cap.
When you increase the engines timing, and make the engine have more power, it will sound even worse then before, if you have non firing cylinders.
When all the cylinders are working together, it gives the engine a smooth balance when running.
A great running engine will get smoother as the rpm's are increased
Get one heat range hotter for the spark plug and a new cap and rotor.
A v8 that burns a little oil will run much better with a hotter plug and advanced timing.
Ok, so does anyone know of a cam with similar specs to these? I'm not finding any cams with around a 0.450 lift with a LSA of less than 110°. It doesn't appear that you get down to 108° unless you get over 0.475 lift or so. Or maybe you were referring to the "Intake Centerline" vs. the "Lobe-Center/Lobe Separation Angle"?
As I've explained before, I'm a bit of a noob when it comes to all this, so I'm just trying to get my terminology down.
This Bad Demon
Well-Known Member
Check out the Hughes engines for they're Whiplash Camshaft....Ground on 109 degree...Made for low compression engine, raises cylinder pressure, and from what the video shows it has a nasty chop to it.....It was in a 340 but the guy had comp listed at 8.5....I talked to a rep and that's the cam I'm goin to put in my 318....
Headers and 4 barrel intake with an 850 Thermoquaker really woke up my 72 318 , not a waste at all , kept up with firebirds and camaro. 318 has always been underrated , it's a good little motor
OP , good luck with your 318 , should be fun .
Easiest and cheapest way...factory 318 4 bbl intake and Thermoquad or Quadrajet. Mopar did use the Quadrajets in later years. Just make sure it has the Mopar throttle linkage on it.
Tiny primaries for good mileage
Huge secondaries for sucking up lesser cars.
Tiny primaries for good mileage
Huge secondaries for sucking up lesser cars.
I looked on their website (www.hughesengines.com) and I only saw 1 camshaft for a 318/small block and that was the HUG HMC1326AL-9.
The specs:
Intake Valve Lift 1.5 .485"
Exhaust Valve Lift 1.5 .518"
Intake Valve Lift 1.6 .517"
Exhaust Valve Lift 1.6 .552"
Intake Duration at .050" 213°
Exhaust Duration at .050" 226°
Lobe Separation Angle 109º
Sweet Spot RPM 2000-5300
Maybe I'm wrong here, but that seems extreme for the mild 318 build that I'm going for. Am I wrong here?
This Bad Demon
Well-Known Member
Yea that's the same cam. Did u check the video out? I plan to put one in when I reach stateside in Dec...I don't remember exactly everything the page said but it's designed for low compression engines, you don't have to pull heads( of course new springs recommended, air up cyl and change springs if need be). I talked to a tech and gave him what I have 360 heads on a 318 so I KNOW my compression ain more than 8.5 he says that the cam will work GOOD wit the setup and have a nasty chop....If in doubt give them a call and run it by them and see what they say for ya.....
Oh, I saw the video and was definitely impressed. The cam just seems so much larger than the other ones that have been recommended. I guess I owe it to myself to call them and find out what the deal is
What do you mean by "air up cyl"? How do you do that?
What do you mean by "air up cyl"? How do you do that?
T67POWER
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These cams are going to run more like the hughes wiplash cam because of the lobe center being 108.
Hughes makes that part of the cam tighter to get that chunky sound.
These are better running in a stock engine, that has stock valve guides as far as clearance with the rocker arms.
The 264-mega cam is a real good cam for you.
Also the 280 -hl is great (but)this is a pretty good size cam (SO) at this point you need to look at your gear ratio.
This is going to be the key point to your cam selection.
What is your gear ratio??????
From flat lander racing. \\\\ ISKY CAMSHAFTS
"A" Engines- V8 '64+Up 273-340-360; 318 '67+Up
Hughes makes that part of the cam tighter to get that chunky sound.
These are better running in a stock engine, that has stock valve guides as far as clearance with the rocker arms.
The 264-mega cam is a real good cam for you.
Also the 280 -hl is great (but)this is a pretty good size cam (SO) at this point you need to look at your gear ratio.
This is going to be the key point to your cam selection.
What is your gear ratio??????
From flat lander racing. \\\\ ISKY CAMSHAFTS
"A" Engines- V8 '64+Up 273-340-360; 318 '67+Up
Grind # Description Cam # Cam
Price Kit # Kit
Price HYDRAULIC Cams Mile-A-Mor Mileage & Maximum Lower RPM Torque for 1972 & later (340-360 CI) Low Compression Engines. RPM-Range (1000-3800) Vlave Lift (.400 .400) Valve Lash hot (.000 .000) ADV Duration (248 248) .050 Duration (194 194) LC 108 3901-M $132 not avail - Mile-A-Mor Mileage & Maximum lower RPM Torque for 1972 & later (273-318 CI) Low Compression Engines. RPM-Range (1000-3800) Valve Lift (.375 .375) Valve Lash hot (.000 .000) ADV Duration (236 236) .050 Duration (186 186) LC 108 3902-M $132 not avail - 256-SUPER
CAM Best torque & economy in passenger cars & trucks. Max compr., 9.5:1, smooth idle, std. Axle ratio, good vacuum, computer compatible. Std. To 600 CFM Carb. RPM-Range (1500-4800) Valve Lift (.425 .425) Valve Lash hot (.000 .000) ADV Duration (256 256) .050 Duration (202 202) LC 112 390125 $132 390025 $809 256/262 Best overall cam for towing. Trucks, Vans, R.V., etc. Broad torque band. Good vacuum. 3.55-4.10 axle ratio. 9.5:1 compr. Computer compatible. Smooth idle. RPM-Range (1800-5000) Valve lift (.425 .435) Valve Lash hot (.000 .000) ADV Duration (256 262) .050 Duration (202 208) LC 110 390125/26 $132 390025/26 $809 262-SUPER
CAM Low/Mid-Range performance cam. 9.5:1 compr. 3.08-3.70 axle ratio. Passenger cars & trucks. Up to 625 CFM Carb. RPM-Range (2000-5500) Valve Lift (.435 .435) Valve Lash hot (.000 .000) ADV Duration (262 262) .050 Duration (208 208) LC 108 390126 $132 390026 $809 264-MEGA Tremendous torque & good mid-range power. 9-10.5:1 compr., good idle, stock converter. RPM-Range (2000-5800) Valve Lift (.450 .450) Valve Lash hot (.000 .000) ADV Duration (264 264) .050 Duration (214 214) LC 108 390164 $132 390064 $809 270-HL Good all-around performance. Fair idle. Stock converter. 3.70-4.11 axle ratio. Up to 650 CFM Carb. 9.5:1 compr. RPM-Range (2000-6000) Valve Lift (.445 .445) Valve Lash hot (.000 .000) ADV Duration (270 270) .050 Duration (216 216) LC 108 390127 $132 390027 $809 270-MEGA Hobby stock & street stock classes; 1/4-3/8 mile tracks with slight bank.2BBL carburetor. RPM-Range (2000-6200) Valve Lift (.465 .465) Valve Lash hot (.000 .000) ADV Duration (270 270) .050 Duration (221 221) LC 108 390171 $132 390071 $809 280-HL High perf. Use. Lopey idle. 2500 stall. 3.70-4.11 axle ratio. Up to 750 CFM Carb. 9.5:1 compr. RPM-Range (2500-6500) Valve Lift (.465 .465) Valve Lash hot (.000 .000) ADV Duration (280 280) .050 Duration (224 224) LC 108 390128 $132 390028 $809 280-MEGA High performance use/bracket racing. Lopey idle. 2500 Stall. 9.5-10.5:1 compr. 3.90-4.11 axle ratio. Up to 780 CFM Carb. RPM-Range (2500-6800) Valve Lift (.485 .485) Valve Lash hot (.000 .000) ADV Duration (280 280) .050 Duration (232 232) LC 108 390181 $132 390081 $809 292-MEGA High performance use/bracket racing. Rough idle. 2800 stall. 10-11:1 compr. 4.11-4.56 axle ratio. Up to 780 CFM Carb. RPM-Range (2800-7000) Valve Lift (.505 .505) Valve Lash hot (.000 .000) ADV Duration (292 292) .050 Duration (244 244) LC 108 390129 $132 390029 $809 300-HL High perf. Street/strip. Lopey idle. 2800 stall. 4.11-4.88 axle ratio. Up to 750 CFM Carb. 10.5:1 compr. RPM-Range (3000-7000) Valve Lift (.485 .485) Valve Lash hot (.000 .000) ADV Duration (300 300) .050 Duration (234 234) LC 108 390130 $132 390030 $809 304-MEGA Ultimate high-performance use/bracket racing. Rough idle. 3000 stall. 11:1 & up compr. 4.33-4.88 axle ratio. Up to 850 CFM Carb. RPM-Range (3200-7500) Valve Lift (.525 .525) Valve Lash hot (.000 .000) ADV Duration (304 304) .050 Duration (256 256) LC 108 390134 $132 390034 $809 TurboCycle A Maximum economy/torque. Turbocharged. Up to 7 PSI Boost. Smooth idle. Stock converter. Std. Axle ratio. Up to 650 CFM Carb. RPM-Range (1000-5000) Valve Lift (.435 .400) Valve Lash hot (.000 .000) ADV Duration (262 250) .050 Duration (208 194) LC 114 3901-TA $132 3900-TKA $809 270-MEGA OVAL TRACK:
Hobby stock & street stock classes; 1/4-3/8 mile tracks with slight bank.2BBL carburetor. RPM-Range (2000-6200) Valve Lift (.465 .465) Valve Lash hot (.000 .000) ADV Duration (270 270) .050 Duration (221 221) LC 108 390171 $132 390071 $809 274-MEGA OVAL TRACK:
Hobby stock & street classes; banked 1/4-3/8 mile tracks. Any carburetor. RPM-Range (2200-6500) Valve Lift (.490 .490) Valve Lash hot (.000 .000) ADV Duration (274 274) .050 Duration (226 226) LC 107 390174 $132 390074 $809 280-MEGA OVAL TRACK:
Hobby stock & street stock classes; banked 1/4-3/8 mile tracks. Any carburetor. RPM-Range (2500-6800) Valve Lift (.485 .485) Valve Lash hot (.000 .000) ADV Duration (280 280) .050 Duration (232 232) LC 106 390180 $132 390080 $809 284-MEGA OVAL TRACK:
Street stock & sportsman classes; banked 3/8-1/2 mile tracks. Any carburetor. RPM-Range (2600-6900) Valve Lift (.510 .510) Valve Lash hot (.000 .000) ADV Duration (284 284) .050 Duration (236 236) LC 106 390184 $132 390084 $809 292-MEGA OVAL TRACK:
Sportsman classes; 3/8-1/2 mile banked tracks. Any carburetor. RPM-Range (2800-7000) Valve Lift (.505 .505) Valve Lash hot (.000 .000) ADV Duration (292 292) .050 Duration (244 244) LC 106 390196 $132 390096 $809 SOLID Cams E-4 Tremendous torque & good mid-range power. 9-10.5:1 compr. , good idle stock converter. 3.23-3.70 axle ratio. Up to 625 Carb. RPM-Range (2000-5500) Valve Lift (.425 .425) Valve Lash hot (.015 .015) ADV Duration (260 250) .050 Duration (216 216) LC 108 390144 $132 390044 $895 B-777 Strong mid-range perf. Lopey idle. 2500 RPM stall. 3.70-4.11 axle ratio. 650-750 CFM Carb. 10.5:1 compr. RPM-Range (3000-7000) Valve Lift (.480 .480) Valve Lash hot (.018 .018) ADV Duration (280 280) .050 Duration (240 240) LC 108 390177 $132 390077 $809 505-A Bracket racing. Rough idle. 3000 stall. 4.11-4.56 axle ratio. Up o 850 CFM Carb. 10.5:1 compr. RPM-Range (3500-7000) Valve Lift (.507 .507) Valve Lash hot (.028 .028) ADV Duration (300 300) .050 Duration (254 254) LC 108 390157 $149 390057 $919 Z-35 High perf. Street/strip. Lopey idle. 2800 stall. 4.11-4.88 axle ratio. Up to 750 CFM Carb. 10.5:1 compr. RPM-Range (3000-7000) Valve Lift (.525 .525) Valve Lash hot (.016 .016) ADV Duration (288 288) .050 Duration (254 254) LC 108 390135 $149 390035 $919 555 High perf. Street/strip. Lopey idle. 3200 stall. 4.56-4.88 axle ratio. Up to 800 CFM Carb. 10.5-11:1 compr. RPM-Range (3200-7200) Valve Lift (.555 .555) Valve Lash hot (.014 .016) ADV Duration (296 296) .050 Duration (263 263) LC 108 390155 $149 390055 $919 1012-C All out drags. 5000 stal. 4.88-5.13 axle ratio. 850+CFM Carb. 12:1 compr .RPM-Range (4500-8000) Valve Lift (.580 .580) Valve Lash hot (.028 .028) ADV Duration (312 312) .050 Duration (274 274) LC 104 390110 $149 390010 $919
Price Kit # Kit
Price HYDRAULIC Cams Mile-A-Mor Mileage & Maximum Lower RPM Torque for 1972 & later (340-360 CI) Low Compression Engines. RPM-Range (1000-3800) Vlave Lift (.400 .400) Valve Lash hot (.000 .000) ADV Duration (248 248) .050 Duration (194 194) LC 108 3901-M $132 not avail - Mile-A-Mor Mileage & Maximum lower RPM Torque for 1972 & later (273-318 CI) Low Compression Engines. RPM-Range (1000-3800) Valve Lift (.375 .375) Valve Lash hot (.000 .000) ADV Duration (236 236) .050 Duration (186 186) LC 108 3902-M $132 not avail - 256-SUPER
CAM Best torque & economy in passenger cars & trucks. Max compr., 9.5:1, smooth idle, std. Axle ratio, good vacuum, computer compatible. Std. To 600 CFM Carb. RPM-Range (1500-4800) Valve Lift (.425 .425) Valve Lash hot (.000 .000) ADV Duration (256 256) .050 Duration (202 202) LC 112 390125 $132 390025 $809 256/262 Best overall cam for towing. Trucks, Vans, R.V., etc. Broad torque band. Good vacuum. 3.55-4.10 axle ratio. 9.5:1 compr. Computer compatible. Smooth idle. RPM-Range (1800-5000) Valve lift (.425 .435) Valve Lash hot (.000 .000) ADV Duration (256 262) .050 Duration (202 208) LC 110 390125/26 $132 390025/26 $809 262-SUPER
CAM Low/Mid-Range performance cam. 9.5:1 compr. 3.08-3.70 axle ratio. Passenger cars & trucks. Up to 625 CFM Carb. RPM-Range (2000-5500) Valve Lift (.435 .435) Valve Lash hot (.000 .000) ADV Duration (262 262) .050 Duration (208 208) LC 108 390126 $132 390026 $809 264-MEGA Tremendous torque & good mid-range power. 9-10.5:1 compr., good idle, stock converter. RPM-Range (2000-5800) Valve Lift (.450 .450) Valve Lash hot (.000 .000) ADV Duration (264 264) .050 Duration (214 214) LC 108 390164 $132 390064 $809 270-HL Good all-around performance. Fair idle. Stock converter. 3.70-4.11 axle ratio. Up to 650 CFM Carb. 9.5:1 compr. RPM-Range (2000-6000) Valve Lift (.445 .445) Valve Lash hot (.000 .000) ADV Duration (270 270) .050 Duration (216 216) LC 108 390127 $132 390027 $809 270-MEGA Hobby stock & street stock classes; 1/4-3/8 mile tracks with slight bank.2BBL carburetor. RPM-Range (2000-6200) Valve Lift (.465 .465) Valve Lash hot (.000 .000) ADV Duration (270 270) .050 Duration (221 221) LC 108 390171 $132 390071 $809 280-HL High perf. Use. Lopey idle. 2500 stall. 3.70-4.11 axle ratio. Up to 750 CFM Carb. 9.5:1 compr. RPM-Range (2500-6500) Valve Lift (.465 .465) Valve Lash hot (.000 .000) ADV Duration (280 280) .050 Duration (224 224) LC 108 390128 $132 390028 $809 280-MEGA High performance use/bracket racing. Lopey idle. 2500 Stall. 9.5-10.5:1 compr. 3.90-4.11 axle ratio. Up to 780 CFM Carb. RPM-Range (2500-6800) Valve Lift (.485 .485) Valve Lash hot (.000 .000) ADV Duration (280 280) .050 Duration (232 232) LC 108 390181 $132 390081 $809 292-MEGA High performance use/bracket racing. Rough idle. 2800 stall. 10-11:1 compr. 4.11-4.56 axle ratio. Up to 780 CFM Carb. RPM-Range (2800-7000) Valve Lift (.505 .505) Valve Lash hot (.000 .000) ADV Duration (292 292) .050 Duration (244 244) LC 108 390129 $132 390029 $809 300-HL High perf. Street/strip. Lopey idle. 2800 stall. 4.11-4.88 axle ratio. Up to 750 CFM Carb. 10.5:1 compr. RPM-Range (3000-7000) Valve Lift (.485 .485) Valve Lash hot (.000 .000) ADV Duration (300 300) .050 Duration (234 234) LC 108 390130 $132 390030 $809 304-MEGA Ultimate high-performance use/bracket racing. Rough idle. 3000 stall. 11:1 & up compr. 4.33-4.88 axle ratio. Up to 850 CFM Carb. RPM-Range (3200-7500) Valve Lift (.525 .525) Valve Lash hot (.000 .000) ADV Duration (304 304) .050 Duration (256 256) LC 108 390134 $132 390034 $809 TurboCycle A Maximum economy/torque. Turbocharged. Up to 7 PSI Boost. Smooth idle. Stock converter. Std. Axle ratio. Up to 650 CFM Carb. RPM-Range (1000-5000) Valve Lift (.435 .400) Valve Lash hot (.000 .000) ADV Duration (262 250) .050 Duration (208 194) LC 114 3901-TA $132 3900-TKA $809 270-MEGA OVAL TRACK:
Hobby stock & street stock classes; 1/4-3/8 mile tracks with slight bank.2BBL carburetor. RPM-Range (2000-6200) Valve Lift (.465 .465) Valve Lash hot (.000 .000) ADV Duration (270 270) .050 Duration (221 221) LC 108 390171 $132 390071 $809 274-MEGA OVAL TRACK:
Hobby stock & street classes; banked 1/4-3/8 mile tracks. Any carburetor. RPM-Range (2200-6500) Valve Lift (.490 .490) Valve Lash hot (.000 .000) ADV Duration (274 274) .050 Duration (226 226) LC 107 390174 $132 390074 $809 280-MEGA OVAL TRACK:
Hobby stock & street stock classes; banked 1/4-3/8 mile tracks. Any carburetor. RPM-Range (2500-6800) Valve Lift (.485 .485) Valve Lash hot (.000 .000) ADV Duration (280 280) .050 Duration (232 232) LC 106 390180 $132 390080 $809 284-MEGA OVAL TRACK:
Street stock & sportsman classes; banked 3/8-1/2 mile tracks. Any carburetor. RPM-Range (2600-6900) Valve Lift (.510 .510) Valve Lash hot (.000 .000) ADV Duration (284 284) .050 Duration (236 236) LC 106 390184 $132 390084 $809 292-MEGA OVAL TRACK:
Sportsman classes; 3/8-1/2 mile banked tracks. Any carburetor. RPM-Range (2800-7000) Valve Lift (.505 .505) Valve Lash hot (.000 .000) ADV Duration (292 292) .050 Duration (244 244) LC 106 390196 $132 390096 $809 SOLID Cams E-4 Tremendous torque & good mid-range power. 9-10.5:1 compr. , good idle stock converter. 3.23-3.70 axle ratio. Up to 625 Carb. RPM-Range (2000-5500) Valve Lift (.425 .425) Valve Lash hot (.015 .015) ADV Duration (260 250) .050 Duration (216 216) LC 108 390144 $132 390044 $895 B-777 Strong mid-range perf. Lopey idle. 2500 RPM stall. 3.70-4.11 axle ratio. 650-750 CFM Carb. 10.5:1 compr. RPM-Range (3000-7000) Valve Lift (.480 .480) Valve Lash hot (.018 .018) ADV Duration (280 280) .050 Duration (240 240) LC 108 390177 $132 390077 $809 505-A Bracket racing. Rough idle. 3000 stall. 4.11-4.56 axle ratio. Up o 850 CFM Carb. 10.5:1 compr. RPM-Range (3500-7000) Valve Lift (.507 .507) Valve Lash hot (.028 .028) ADV Duration (300 300) .050 Duration (254 254) LC 108 390157 $149 390057 $919 Z-35 High perf. Street/strip. Lopey idle. 2800 stall. 4.11-4.88 axle ratio. Up to 750 CFM Carb. 10.5:1 compr. RPM-Range (3000-7000) Valve Lift (.525 .525) Valve Lash hot (.016 .016) ADV Duration (288 288) .050 Duration (254 254) LC 108 390135 $149 390035 $919 555 High perf. Street/strip. Lopey idle. 3200 stall. 4.56-4.88 axle ratio. Up to 800 CFM Carb. 10.5-11:1 compr. RPM-Range (3200-7200) Valve Lift (.555 .555) Valve Lash hot (.014 .016) ADV Duration (296 296) .050 Duration (263 263) LC 108 390155 $149 390055 $919 1012-C All out drags. 5000 stal. 4.88-5.13 axle ratio. 850+CFM Carb. 12:1 compr .RPM-Range (4500-8000) Valve Lift (.580 .580) Valve Lash hot (.028 .028) ADV Duration (312 312) .050 Duration (274 274) LC 104 390110 $149 390010 $919
This Bad Demon
Well-Known Member
Oh, I saw the video and was definitely impressed. The cam just seems so much larger than the other ones that have been recommended. I guess I owe it to myself to call them and find out what the deal is
What do you mean by "air up cyl"? How do you do that?
"Air up cylinder"....Jus get an air compressor and the correct fitting for the spark plug hole and fill the cylinder wit air to hold the valves in the head when you change the springs..... Let me know what info you find out on the cam....I always like to see what the tech tells different people bout they products.
blackbomber
Raging Member
If you have an engine compression tester, you may already have the correct fitting for pressurizing the cylinder.
So assuming I go with the "302" heads and follow T67Power's advice (look for the long post on pg 2 http://www.forabodiesonly.com/mopar/showthread.php?t=115938&page=2). Will I need to change the size of the intake or exhaust valves from the stock size? I've read a couple of times about people recommending 1.88 intake valves (or larger) and I was just wondering how much of a difference this would make. What about the exhaust valves?
How much would this add to the cost of using these heads?
And before you tell me to go get a set of 360 Magnum heads, I have already decided against it
How much would this add to the cost of using these heads?
And before you tell me to go get a set of 360 Magnum heads, I have already decided against it
T67POWER
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Sep 30, 2009
- Messages
- 669
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I would leave the heads for now on the motor.
If the engine does not smoke and sounds like it's in good working order, don't change anything but the cam\intake\carb and add a set of headers.
You can always add a set of heads later on.
Just this alone will suck up some money and you want some left over for the unexpected things that always happen.
You will need a set of mufflers and a set of pipes.
I would run the muffler system to just in front of the rear end with down spouts.(cheapest)
I also suggest a set of thrush welded series mufflers.//29.99 a piece.
Just this alone will hit the bank kind of hard.
IF you have the money for heads then i would get a set from areo racing all redone for $399.00.
Take the new set of heads to the local machine shop and have them cut .030 thousands and and about .036 on the intake side of the heads.
Just tell the machine shop you want .030 off the heads and they will measure and cut the intake side however much they need to.
I would leave the heads on for know if i where you.
65.000 miles.that"s pretty low mileage.
By the way these heads have new valve springs\guides\seals and the 1.88 intake valve installed.all brand new stuff.
roHead Racing
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Chrysler Heads
These heads are reconditioned and come assembled with a "like new" apperance and quality, with all new Aeromaxx parts installed and a milled deck surface. These heads have outstanding features that include premium one-piece, stainless steel, high flow valves, heat treated and machined steel retainers and valve locks, seals, bronze wall valve guides, 3 angle valve job, and heavy duty valve springs. All heads listed accept their repscetive stock equipment (i.e. intake manifolds, exhaust headers and manifolds, valve train, valve covers, and accessory bolt holes) Must state cam lift when ordering head assembilies.
Small Block Heads (Assembled)
.table_d2e26 { border: 1px solid rgb(0, 0, 0); width: 100%; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255); }.table_d2e26 td { border: 1px solid rgb(0, 0, 0); } Part
Price
318
1968-1987 318 A-Engine Heads, 1.88X1.60 Stainless Valves, 67-70cc Open Chamber Design, .509" Lift Springs
$399.00
pair
340-360
1968-1987 340-360 A-Engine Assem., 1.88 or 2.02X1.60 Stainless Valves, 67-70cc Open Chamber Design, .509" Lift Springs, 160cc Intake Port Volume
$499.00
pair
915-587
Same as 340-360 Utilizes Select #915 or #587 Casting with a Larger Intake Port Volume
$599.00
pair
Edelbrock 360 Performer
Aluminum heads for the Chrysler 360 engine. Assembled with 2.02 x 1.60 stainless steel valves. 63 cc combution chambers, 171 cc intake runner, springs set up for .575 lift. Ready too run.
ARP head bolt package recommended $75.00
IE-1AS
Indy IE-1 assembled heads complete with up to .650" roller springs, port match, roller rockers, shafts spacers, clamps, shaft stud kit, 2.05 & 1.60 stainless stell valves, 63cc chamber volume, 175cc int port volume
includes ARP head bolt kit and cut to length pushrod kits
click here to view spec. sheet
$2480.00
pair
Opt.
2.02X1.60 11/32 Valve Stem Upgrade on 340-360 and 915-587 Assemblies Above, Lightens Valve Train Weight
$50.00
Big Block Heads (Assembled)
.table_d2e152 { border: 1px solid rgb(0, 0, 0); width: 100%; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255); }.table_d2e152 td { border: 1px solid rgb(0, 0, 0); } Part
Price
383-400-440
B and RB Head Assem., 2.08X1.74 or 2.14X1.81 Stainless Valves, 86-88cc Open Chamber Design, .509 Lift Springs, 185cc Intake Port Volume
$499.00
pair
452-906
Same Features as Above 383-400-440 But Utilizes Select #452 or #906 Castings with a Larger Intake Port Volume, 200cc Intake Port Volume
$599.00
pair
516-915
Same Features as Above 383-400-440 But Has a 78cc Combustion Chamber to Increase Compression
$599.00
pair
Opt.
2.19 X 1.88- 3/8 Stainless Steal Valve Stem Upgrade on all Big Block Assemblies
$100.00
Edelbrock
440 Performer
RPM
440 Edelbrock Performer RPM aluminum heads. Assembled with 2.14 x 1.81 stainless steel valves, .600 lift springs, umbrella seals and chrome moly steel retainers. 84 cc combustion chambers with a 210 cc intake runner. Ready to go.
Upgrades (All Assemblies)
.table_d2e264 { border: 1px solid rgb(0, 0, 0); width: 100%; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255); }.table_d2e264 td { border: 1px solid rgb(0, 0, 0); } Part
Price
Up 1
Hard Seats for Unleaded Fuel (Use in Vehicles that are Daily Driven or See High Milage)
$80.00
Up 2
Dual Solid or Roller Springs
$80.00
Up 3
Head Machining Options and Upgrades
Call
If the engine does not smoke and sounds like it's in good working order, don't change anything but the cam\intake\carb and add a set of headers.
You can always add a set of heads later on.
Just this alone will suck up some money and you want some left over for the unexpected things that always happen.
You will need a set of mufflers and a set of pipes.
I would run the muffler system to just in front of the rear end with down spouts.(cheapest)
I also suggest a set of thrush welded series mufflers.//29.99 a piece.
Just this alone will hit the bank kind of hard.
IF you have the money for heads then i would get a set from areo racing all redone for $399.00.
Take the new set of heads to the local machine shop and have them cut .030 thousands and and about .036 on the intake side of the heads.
Just tell the machine shop you want .030 off the heads and they will measure and cut the intake side however much they need to.
I would leave the heads on for know if i where you.
65.000 miles.that"s pretty low mileage.
By the way these heads have new valve springs\guides\seals and the 1.88 intake valve installed.all brand new stuff.
roHead Racing
Chrysler
These heads are reconditioned and come assembled with a "like new" apperance and quality, with all new Aeromaxx parts installed and a milled deck surface. These heads have outstanding features that include premium one-piece, stainless steel, high flow valves, heat treated and machined steel retainers and valve locks, seals, bronze wall valve guides, 3 angle valve job, and heavy duty valve springs. All heads listed accept their repscetive stock equipment (i.e. intake manifolds, exhaust headers and manifolds, valve train, valve covers, and accessory bolt holes) Must state cam lift when ordering head assembilies.
Small Block Heads (Assembled)
.table_d2e26 { border: 1px solid rgb(0, 0, 0); width: 100%; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255); }.table_d2e26 td { border: 1px solid rgb(0, 0, 0); } Part
Description
Price
318
1968-1987 318 A-Engine Heads, 1.88X1.60 Stainless Valves, 67-70cc Open Chamber Design, .509" Lift Springs
$399.00
pair
340-360
1968-1987 340-360 A-Engine Assem., 1.88 or 2.02X1.60 Stainless Valves, 67-70cc Open Chamber Design, .509" Lift Springs, 160cc Intake Port Volume
$499.00
pair
915-587
Same as 340-360 Utilizes Select #915 or #587 Casting with a Larger Intake Port Volume
$599.00
pair
Edelbrock 360 Performer
Aluminum heads for the Chrysler 360 engine. Assembled with 2.02 x 1.60 stainless steel valves. 63 cc combution chambers, 171 cc intake runner, springs set up for .575 lift. Ready too run.
ARP head bolt package recommended $75.00
$1335.00
pair
pair
IE-1AS
Indy IE-1 assembled heads complete with up to .650" roller springs, port match, roller rockers, shafts spacers, clamps, shaft stud kit, 2.05 & 1.60 stainless stell valves, 63cc chamber volume, 175cc int port volume
includes ARP head bolt kit and cut to length pushrod kits
click here to view spec. sheet
$2480.00
pair
Opt.
2.02X1.60 11/32 Valve Stem Upgrade on 340-360 and 915-587 Assemblies Above, Lightens Valve Train Weight
$50.00
Big Block Heads (Assembled)
.table_d2e152 { border: 1px solid rgb(0, 0, 0); width: 100%; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255); }.table_d2e152 td { border: 1px solid rgb(0, 0, 0); } Part
Description
Price
383-400-440
B and RB Head Assem., 2.08X1.74 or 2.14X1.81 Stainless Valves, 86-88cc Open Chamber Design, .509 Lift Springs, 185cc Intake Port Volume
$499.00
pair
452-906
Same Features as Above 383-400-440 But Utilizes Select #452 or #906 Castings with a Larger Intake Port Volume, 200cc Intake Port Volume
$599.00
pair
516-915
Same Features as Above 383-400-440 But Has a 78cc Combustion Chamber to Increase Compression
$599.00
pair
Opt.
2.19 X 1.88- 3/8 Stainless Steal Valve Stem Upgrade on all Big Block Assemblies
$100.00
Edelbrock
440 Performer
RPM
440 Edelbrock Performer RPM aluminum heads. Assembled with 2.14 x 1.81 stainless steel valves, .600 lift springs, umbrella seals and chrome moly steel retainers. 84 cc combustion chambers with a 210 cc intake runner. Ready to go.
$1335.00
pair
pair
.table_d2e264 { border: 1px solid rgb(0, 0, 0); width: 100%; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255); }.table_d2e264 td { border: 1px solid rgb(0, 0, 0); } Part
Description
Price
Up 1
Hard Seats for Unleaded Fuel (Use in Vehicles that are Daily Driven or See High Milage)
$80.00
Up 2
Dual Solid or Roller Springs
$80.00
Up 3
Head Machining Options and Upgrades
Call
CALL 1-317-862-0223
MopaR&D
Nerd Member
FWIW I bolted a set of 302s on my stock 318 bottom end with a Lunati Voodoo 60401 cam and a 625 cfm AFB on a Performer intake and it was fun even with 2.76 gears... However my engine wasn't in good shape and it was really soggy on the low end from low compression (at high altitude as well) and worn rings. You seem to have gotten one of the "good" ones though, taken care of and built on the better side of tolerances.
Since you are using 302 heads I'd say go with a Performer (or similar) intake, the bigger ones won't match up as well and the head ports are too small to take advantage of the flow. BUT there is extra power to be had from enlarging the intakes to 1.88s and working the ports to suit, and in that case an RPM-level intake manifold would have greater benefit. If you are able to change gears to even just 3.23s a cam like the Voodoo 60401 I used would be perfect, or the next level up also if you are getting bigger valves and porting. Finally headers would be nice but IMO they aren't really worth it because the only ones that fit well are pricey and the increase in power at this 'level of tune' is on the small side. Find some junkyard Magnum manifolds from a Ram/Dakota/Durango etc. and massage them to fit or even just some OEM 360 car manifolds would do the job...
EDIT: Just a "HEADS"-up haha bolting a set of closed-chamber heads on a short block with a big quench distance might increase your chances of detonation even if the compression isn't that high in the end.
Since you are using 302 heads I'd say go with a Performer (or similar) intake, the bigger ones won't match up as well and the head ports are too small to take advantage of the flow. BUT there is extra power to be had from enlarging the intakes to 1.88s and working the ports to suit, and in that case an RPM-level intake manifold would have greater benefit. If you are able to change gears to even just 3.23s a cam like the Voodoo 60401 I used would be perfect, or the next level up also if you are getting bigger valves and porting. Finally headers would be nice but IMO they aren't really worth it because the only ones that fit well are pricey and the increase in power at this 'level of tune' is on the small side. Find some junkyard Magnum manifolds from a Ram/Dakota/Durango etc. and massage them to fit or even just some OEM 360 car manifolds would do the job...
EDIT: Just a "HEADS"-up haha bolting a set of closed-chamber heads on a short block with a big quench distance might increase your chances of detonation even if the compression isn't that high in the end.
Ok, thanks again for the info (especially you T67...you really have put some effort into this thread ).
The one thing about the current heads is that the valve seals ARE worn out or so that is what my dad and brother think and they have WAY more knowledge on this stuff that I can ever hope to attain. It smokes when you restart it after it has been sitting (even for a short while).
And, more than likely, I'm going to have to get beefier springs to go along with even a mild cam upgrade. I'm thinking if I'm going to have to do all that I might as well try to improve/replace them while they are off the car.
I'll check out those assembled heads you were talking about for $399. I'm thinking I'll have roughly $2,000 to put into this thing by next Spring by the time bonus and tax returns hit
).The one thing about the current heads is that the valve seals ARE worn out or so that is what my dad and brother think and they have WAY more knowledge on this stuff that I can ever hope to attain. It smokes when you restart it after it has been sitting (even for a short while).
And, more than likely, I'm going to have to get beefier springs to go along with even a mild cam upgrade. I'm thinking if I'm going to have to do all that I might as well try to improve/replace them while they are off the car.
I'll check out those assembled heads you were talking about for $399. I'm thinking I'll have roughly $2,000 to put into this thing by next Spring by the time bonus and tax returns hit
Ok, forgive my ignorance again here, but when you say to take .030 off the head, are you talking about removing that much material off the "bottom" of the head where it mates to the block? If so, wouldn't this screw up how the intake aligns with the heads?
And I'm guessing the point of this would be to increase the compression ratio?
MopaR&D
Nerd Member
Yes and yes, you have to mill the intake side a certain amount for every 'X' amount taken off the chamber side. Somebody should know the exact numbers, I can't recall them right now.
New springs are a good idea too, it's a real bummer hitting valve float at 5000 RPM when you know it can keep going.
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