Edelbrock Air Gap Cheap Knockoff

[Johnny Mac]

yep, I will jump in…if you think these very obviously smart, veteran engine master competitors left 30 horse on the table for at the time maybe 150 bucks…..not sure what to tell you

Iron-Headed Mopar 318 Magnum Engine- Popular Hot Rodding Magazine

They 100% left horsepower on the table. They also picked iron magnum heads, and decided to use a 1 5/8 header in a dyno competition?

I'm simply providing a data point, much as you are. Mine is however, what I have seen on a 480 hp 408 with my own eyes, with an True "A,B" comparison.

In this article with 323 cid engine, no "A, B" comparison was done.

I could throw an rpm airgap on my personal 600 HP sb engine, and it'd choke down to 550. Does that make the airgap a good choice because it made 550? No. it means I should put the victor back on it and make 600 again.

Does that make the victor an answer for a 318? No.

I very clearly give examples and conjecture that smaller, or more mild engines will respond differently, and simply won't care nearly as much. I don't understand the need to quote me every time I give my first hand experience on the topic.

 

[B3422w5]

They 100% left horsepower on the table. They also picked iron magnum heads, and decided to use a 1 5/8 header in a dyno competition?

I'm simply providing a data point, much as you are. Mine is however, what I have seen on a 480 hp 408 with my own eyes, with an True "A,B" comparison.

In this article with 323 cid engine, no "A, B" comparison was done.

I could throw an rpm airgap on my personal 600 HP sb engine, and it'd choke down to 550. Does that make the airgap a good choice because it made 550? No. it means I should put the victor back on it and make 600 again.

Does that make the victor an answer for a 318? No.

I very clearly give examples and conjecture that smaller, or more mild engines will respond differently, and simply won't care nearly as much. I don't understand the need to quote me every time I give my first hand experience on the topic.

it should be noted that motor made the same power your stroker does.
and I suspect( as the competition pulls we’re scored from 2500-6500)
the headers chosen were likely very effective on a stock stroke 318.
you also seem unaware of what the rules were regards what head(s) were required to be used in the competition.
HAD to be a factory available iron head. I think they made a great choice.

 

[Johnny Mac]

it should be noted that motor made the same power your stroker does.
and I suspect( as the competition pulls we’re scored from 2500-6500)
the headers chosen were likely very effective on a stock stroke 318.
you also seem unaware of what the rules were regards what head(s) were required to be used in the competition.
HAD to be a factory available iron head. I think they made a great choice.

So now this 323 makes the "same power" as "my" stroker? I'm gonna assume you mean the BluePrint BPC4085CTC.

That engine is advertised at 465 HP / 494 FT LBS. And thats MININUM advertised. With a dyno sheet and a 30 month warranty I might add.

Your 323 peaked horsepower at 427, and made 477, AND It had to wind clear out to 6500 rpm to do it, all while it stopped building HP at 5000. "Mine" is making near all of its torque by 2400 rpm.

In what world is a difference in 29 hp and 20 ft lbs "the same"?

I guess in the same sense that knockoff and the edelbrock are "the same" sure. Lol.

If you want to keep specifically quoting me every time I give my real world facts, and de-rail every thread mentioning intakes by demanding people read some contest from 2009, then go for it. Sorry you don't care for my opinions, but facts are facts and numbers are numbers.

 

[pittsburghracer]

So now this 323 makes the "same power" as "my" stroker? I'm gonna assume you mean the BluePrint BPC4085CTC.

That engine is advertised at 465 HP / 494 FT LBS. And thats MININUM advertised. With a dyno sheet and a 30 month warranty I might add.

Your 323 peaked horsepower at 427, and made 477, AND It had to wind clear out to 6500 rpm to do it, all while it stopped building HP at 5000. "Mine" is making near all of its torque by 2400 rpm.

In what world is a difference in 29 hp and 20 ft lbs "the same"?

I guess in the same sense that knockoff and the edelbrock are "the same" sure. Lol.

If you want to keep specifically quoting me every time I give my real world facts, and de-rail every thread mentioning intakes by demanding people read some contest from 2009, then go for it. Sorry you don't care for my opinions, but facts are facts and numbers are numbers.

Be careful Johnny. The guy you are arguing with will
Jump out like a snake and call you a liar.

 

[Johnny Mac]

Be careful Johnny. The guy you are arguing with will
Jump out like a snake and call you a liar.

I just don't get what's so baffling about an intake manifold possibly not being the best choice for every engine on the planet. Lol

 

[pittsburghracer]

I just don't get what's so baffling about an intake manifold possibly not being the best choice for every engine on the planet. Lol

Or heads. Because I spoke the truth about the Airwolf heads and the guy that ported them it’s easy for him just to snap. I’ve touched a set of those heads. I’ve played with a set of those heads on a flowbench. And I know a guy “trying” to make horsepower with them. Why didn’t the first BPH work and that project scrapped. I know why. Does he other than reading what others have posted. Polly want a cracker. Lol

 

[Dale Davies]

Anyone tried one on a 273 4 barrel? It will be stock w/ mildly cleaned up ports on 920 heads, manifolds and a cam similar to the e4. 3.23 gears and a 2200-2400 stall. Choosing between one of these, or a stealth manifold

Airgap works well on my 289 Ford. At the time of purchase the Performer carb was available. Going from a 2V to 4V. Airgaps do not have water or exhaust crossover to heat the manifold to aid vaporization of the fuel. With that in mind, I would chose the AVS2 650 or an annular booster Holley. The AVS2 come with annular primary boosters and a different initial calibration that compensates for the ethanol fuels.
Performer carbs can be converted easily to the annular boosters from the equivalent sized AVS2 carb. The Performer 600 can use the AVS2 650 boosters. Get ahold of The Carb Shop in Minnisota. If your Performer has not been tuned for ethanol content fuels, also get the equivalent AVS2 calibration kit. Ethanol in the fuel requires an air/fuel ratio, for cruise, closer to 14.1:1, so a carb tuned for 14.7:1 AFR needs to have the jets and metering rods changed. Reading plugs or an O2 sensor and gauge is required.
The annular boosters provide better atomization of the fuel leaving the booster, which exposes more surface area to the air to vaporize. Nonvaporized fuel droplets are smaller and more vaporizes during compression as compared to those from conventional boosters.

 

[B3422w5]

So now this 323 makes the "same power" as "my" stroker? I'm gonna assume you mean the BluePrint BPC4085CTC.

That engine is advertised at 465 HP / 494 FT LBS. And thats MININUM advertised. With a dyno sheet and a 30 month warranty I might add.

Your 323 peaked horsepower at 427, and made 477, AND It had to wind clear out to 6500 rpm to do it, all while it stopped building HP at 5000. "Mine" is making near all of its torque by 2400 rpm.

In what world is a difference in 29 hp and 20 ft lbs "the same"?

I guess in the same sense that knockoff and the edelbrock are "the same" sure. Lol.

If you want to keep specifically quoting me every time I give my real world facts, and de-rail every thread mentioning intakes by demanding people read some contest from 2009, then go for it. Sorry you don't care for my opinions, but facts are facts and numbers are numbers.

You continue to make senseless arguments.
Of course a 323 Cube engine is going to make peak horsepower at higher RPM than something With a 4 inch crank. That isn’t a revelation.
and that motor didn’t stop “ building horsepower” it was actually still making more at 6500 than it did at 6400. 5000 rpm, you drinking or something..lol
Again, that motor was purpose built to attain a score between 2500-6500 rpm.
You can probably tell, I am not much of a dyno guy. 50 years of racing nothing but small block Chrysler’s guess I am old school.
I put a ton more faith in weight/ mph at the track.
that little 323 went right at 116 mph at 3400 pounds with a much smaller cam than was used at Enginemasters. I shifted it at 6200 rpm.
flat hood, all steel, full bench seat interior with 300+ pound driver.
I don’t have anything against you at all bud, but don’t badmouth a proven engine that has been in a car and at the track going on 10 years now.
You do a fine job building those motors. Ran into a guy couple years ago at the track with one of those in a Duster, think he had installed it the previous year. Having a tough time getting it to dip into the 11’s at the track( think it was going 11.85-11.90 ish that day)…
Thats why I don’t race dyno’s

 

[B3422w5]

Or heads. Because I spoke the truth about the Airwolf heads and the guy that ported them it’s easy for him just to snap. I’ve touched a set of those heads. I’ve played with a set of those heads on a flowbench. And I know a guy “trying” to make horsepower with them. Why didn’t the first BPH work and that project scrapped. I know why. Does he other than reading what others have posted. Polly want a cracker. Lol

John, I believe the reason the first BPE heads were basically a loser was because Vic Bloomer had virtually nothing to do with them
The port design was farmed out.
Rod Marketed them, took his lumps, and ultimately he and his brother involved themselves 100% in the second version with no outside help.
the results have been extremely positive.
I personally only know of one guy who has run the Airwolf heads in a worthy solid drag car. That guy had both the airwolf and trickflow heads on the same short block. Only difference was the heads.
the airwolf’s appeared to make more power at the track.
I know that Dr J guy kinda evaporated all the sudden back then

 

[pittsburghracer]

John, I believe the reason the first BPE heads were basically a loser was because Vic Bloomer had virtually nothing to do with them
The port design was farmed out.
Rod Marketed them, took his lumps, and ultimately he and his brother involved themselves 100% in the second version with no outside help.
the results have been extremely positive.
I personally only know of one guy who has run the Airwolf heads in a worthy solid drag car. That guy had both the airwolf and trickflow heads on the same short block. Only difference was the heads.
the airwolf’s appeared to make more power at the track.
I know that Dr J guy kinda evaporated all the sudden back then

Dont hold me to it because I Dont want to get called a liar again but the Airwolf head had a 220 cc intake runner and they raped the floor to gain that area in an already piss poor shortside head. Pretty sure the first BPE heads had a 220 runner too which means area was gained in the same area. Again I may be wrong but the new BPE head is a 200 cc runner head. That Airwolf head is about as unstable as a girl I dated a few times.

 

[B3422w5]

Dont hold me to it because I Dont want to get called a liar again but the Airwolf head had a 220 cc intake runner and they raped the floor to gain that area in an already piss poor shortside head. Pretty sure the first BPE heads had a 220 runner too which means area was gained in the same area. Again I may be wrong but the new BPE head is a 200 cc runner head. That Airwolf head is about as unstable as a girl I dated a few times.

First BPE heads I think were 195cc. They definitely were not 220.
the new BPE are 200. They are tall at the top and more meat in the bottom to have worked with. I posted the actual port measurements back when I first got them, on here. They were long and tall. Rod mentioned that only the super Victor had enough meat at the top to work perfectly. My Victor intake isn’t ideal, but it seals and works.
Not sure on the airwolfs, but it wouldn’t surprise me if they were less than the 220 he claimed, seems like somebody measured them and this was the case( Rod maybe?) pretty sure he had a set of them to look at , might even have had them on dyno at Bischoff’s. Don’t remember now.

 

[Rat Bastid]

So now this 323 makes the "same power" as "my" stroker? I'm gonna assume you mean the BluePrint BPC4085CTC.

That engine is advertised at 465 HP / 494 FT LBS. And thats MININUM advertised. With a dyno sheet and a 30 month warranty I might add.

Your 323 peaked horsepower at 427, and made 477, AND It had to wind clear out to 6500 rpm to do it, all while it stopped building HP at 5000. "Mine" is making near all of its torque by 2400 rpm.

In what world is a difference in 29 hp and 20 ft lbs "the same"?

I guess in the same sense that knockoff and the edelbrock are "the same" sure. Lol.

If you want to keep specifically quoting me every time I give my real world facts, and de-rail every thread mentioning intakes by demanding people read some contest from 2009, then go for it. Sorry you don't care for my opinions, but facts are facts and numbers are numbers

Since when is 6500 “winding it clear out”?

It’s 2023 and if you don’t have junk valve train 6500 is street RPM.

It’s just crazy to say 6500 like it’s in the outer stratosphere.

 

[B3422w5]

Since when is 6500 “winding it clear out”?

It’s 2023 and if you don’t have junk valve train 6500 is street RPM.

It’s just crazy to say 6500 like it’s in the outer stratosphere.

Yea, he seems to have a Cub Cadet/ John Deere type mindset

 

[Brooks James]

I regularly bounce the needle off 7300 rpm
In the Buick Enclave I use at work , 300 horse . It is only stopped by the rev limiter
.

 

[Johnny Mac]

Lol you guys have fun. I'm done. Have a happy father's day.

 

[Caco2120]

Since when is 6500 “winding it clear out”?

It’s 2023 and if you don’t have junk valve train 6500 is street RPM.

It’s just crazy to say 6500 like it’s in the outer stratosphere.

Yea, he seems to have a Cub Cadet/ John Deere type mindset

I regularly bounce the needle off 7300 rpm
In the Buick Enclave I use at work , 300 horse . It is only stopped by the rev limiter
.

because you BW3 buddy keeps incorrectly stating "power" when the actual value is TORQUE, you guys keep confusing yourselves. So we have 2 guys that think peak TORQUE @ 6500 IS good? And one that thinks a late model buick v6 is a performance engine. Hilarious. and the fact you guys continuously seek out arguments with a guy running a multi million dollar company that owns 9 second smallblock street car? Wow.

 

[mopowers]

Lol you guys have fun. I'm done. Have a happy father's day.

I (and I'd imagine most here as well) appreciate the first hand dyno experience you have. Because of that, I'll take a genuine Edelbrock RPM any day over one of the knockoffs. Thanks again for your input!

 

[B3422w5]

because you BW3 buddy keeps incorrectly stating "power" when the actual value is TORQUE, you guys keep confusing yourselves. So we have 2 guys that think peak TORQUE @ 6500 IS good? And one that thinks a late model buick v6 is a performance engine. Hilarious. and the fact you guys continuously seek out arguments with a guy running a multi million dollar company that owns 9 second smallblock street car? Wow.

i had a 9 sec small block street car I sold going on 15 years ago. Many on here know the car and saw it go down the track, on super stock springs, and it wasn’t cut up, not even minitubbed. i Seriously doubt he has as many laps at the track in anything than I did in just that one car.
Not saying the guy doesn’t haven’t a successful business( so do I) so what. He doesn’t get special considerations from me for insulting a very slick build, he makes uneducated comments about.
not gonna kiss his *** when he belittles that little engine masters motor, and makes continuous comments about it having Zero knowledge about how those contests were run. For instance the dumb comment about the magnum RT heads. Dumb, zero getting around it. Then the dumb rpm comment about 6500 rpm on a small stroke motor. Again dumb.
And the dumb comment about it having been built in 2009. So what, very little has changed since then. Mopar small blocks are still the same.
that motor sat under a blanket for years until I bought it, and it’s still running today, literally.
that’s still a viable build tomorrow and the next day

 

[rumblefish360]

Since when is 6500 “winding it clear out”?

It’s 2023 and if you don’t have junk valve train 6500 is street RPM.

It’s just crazy to say 6500 like it’s in the outer stratosphere.

Yea, he seems to have a Cub Cadet/ John Deere type mindset

I think you guys are off base and present things in a (clearly) different manor against the BP engine in which the only advantage it has is the CID. Super limited by the as cast cylinder head and Hyd cam.

The 6500 hundred rpm ceiling was induced by the EM challange.
Correct? So, if such is the case, that limit is the screaming red line no matter how you cut it by the RULES of the EM competition and not what we can do on the street or strip.

Your blurring the lines and lasting Johnny Mac with BS as if you were trying to paint him and his company as lame and stupid for there efforts on what they put out.

Sorry, I thought you guys better than this.

I (and I'd imagine most here as well) appreciate the first hand dyno experience you have. Because of that, I'll take a genuine Edelbrock RPM any day over one of the knockoffs. Thanks again for your input!

On both statements - 100%!!!!

 

[rumblefish360]

i had a 9 sec small block street car I sold going on 15 years ago. Many on here know the car and saw it go down the track, on super stock springs, and it wasn’t cut up, not even minitubbed. i Seriously doubt he has a many laps at the track in anything than I did in just that very car.
Not saying the guy doesn’t haven’t a successful business( so do I) so what. He doesn’t get special considerations from me for insulting a very slick build.
not gonna kiss his *** when he belittles that little engine masters motor, and makes continuous comments about it having Zero knowledge about how those contests were run. For instance the dumb comment about the magnum RT heads. Dumb, zero getting around it. Then the dumb rpm comment about 6500 rpm on a small stroke motor. Again dumb.
And the dumb comment about it having been built in 2009. So what, very little has changed since then. Mopar small blocks are still the same.
that motor sat under a blanket for years until I bought it, and it’s still running today, literally.

And you continue to rip up J-Mac? Nice…… really nice….

 

[rumblefish360]

I’m not going to get into this stupidness. Because it’s really stupid comparing pineapples to bananas.

 

[B3422w5]

And you continue to rip up J-Mac? Nice…… really nice….

He started ripping on that engine masters motor, knowing nothing about it.
Just because he builds engines doesn’t insulate him from getting called out for saying something dumb.
how much money somebody has or doesn’t have doesn’t decide how I post or don’t post . Everybody is the same in my book.
Sorry, I kiss nobody’s ***. Read the thread, see the stupid stuff he said

 

[pittsburghracer]

i had a 9 sec small block street car I sold going on 15 years ago. Many on here know the car and saw it go down the track, on super stock springs, and it wasn’t cut up, not even minitubbed. i Seriously doubt he has as many laps at the track in anything than I did in just that one car.
Not saying the guy doesn’t haven’t a successful business( so do I) so what. He doesn’t get special considerations from me for insulting a very slick build, he makes uneducated comments about.
not gonna kiss his *** when he belittles that little engine masters motor, and makes continuous comments about it having Zero knowledge about how those contests were run. For instance the dumb comment about the magnum RT heads. Dumb, zero getting around it. Then the dumb rpm comment about 6500 rpm on a small stroke motor. Again dumb.
And the dumb comment about it having been built in 2009. So what, very little has changed since then. Mopar small blocks are still the same.
that motor sat under a blanket for years until I bought it, and it’s still running today, literally.
that’s still a viable build tomorrow and the next day

You won’t be happy till you run off more tech on this site. Why Dont you stick to running your wife’s used car business and paying guys to work on your car. It’s probably due for its Jiffy Car oil change.

 

[rumblefish360]

He started ripping on that engine masters motor, knowing nothing about it.
Just because he builds engines doesn’t insulate him from getting called out for saying something dumb.
Sorry, I kiss nobody’s ***. Read the thread, see the stupid stuff he said

Oh! I read the thread!

You want my opinion?

 

[RustyRatRod]

because you BW3 buddy keeps incorrectly stating "power" when the actual value is TORQUE, you guys keep confusing yourselves. So we have 2 guys that think peak TORQUE @ 6500 IS good? And one that thinks a late model buick v6 is a performance engine. Hilarious. and the fact you guys continuously seek out arguments with a guy running a multi million dollar company that owns 9 second smallblock street car? Wow.

Yeah it's good entertainment though. lol