Electric Power Steering conversion kit question

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Ken71Twister

Ken71Twister

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I have a 1971 Duster (318 with 3 speed manual) that is about to go to a restoration shop for some major body work, engine rebuild, AC, new front suspension, etc. I decided last week that I was willing to invest in power steering and I came across an electric steering conversion kit. I’m 73 and the manual steering is less fun every year.

I did a quick search and found an example of a kit thru Summit that I’m including in an attached photo.

A little reading indicated that the existing steering shaft will need to be shortened. I figure now is as good a time as any since the car is going to be torn down for the other work (I’ll be getting a new firewall as part of the restoration).

Any advice out there would be appreciated. I’m hoping someone out there can share some positive experience with an electric power steering conversion. I’m open to any suggestions if there are better kits out there to choose from.

IMG_4519.png
. I’m open to
 
A member here (Haven't seen for many months) did that EPAS kit to a 68 Valiant.
Apparently it works fine. A friend will be soon installing the same on his 50 Dodge with a small block.Not much under hood clearance.
I need to do the same with my Belvedere. Cost will be about the same as a Borgeson unit.
Can't make up my mind.......
 
Darter6 said:
A member here (Haven't seen for many months) did that EPAS kit to a 68 Valiant.
Apparently it works fine. A friend will be soon installing the same on his 50 Dodge with a small block.Not much under hood clearance.
I need to do the same with my Belvedere. Cost will be about the same as a Borgeson unit.
Can't make up my mind.......
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I think I saw that same thread but it seemed that he wasn’t finished. I asked him yesterday how it turned out but have not heard back yet.
 
My daughter's new car has electronic power steering. We drove 1000 miles. I felt like I had to fight it the entire way. No relaxing.

My stock 67 dart with manual steering is effortless. just a little nudge to the left and a nudge to the right to go straight.
 
Here's a link to a finished install of that kit, I think the full build thread is on another site but there's a ton of info here

EPAS Electric Power Steering install

Dana67Dart said:
My daughter's new car has electronic power steering. We drove 1000 miles. I felt like I had to fight it the entire way. No relaxing.

My stock 67 dart with manual steering is effortless. just a little nudge to the left and a nudge to the right to go straight.
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Yeah that's not nearly enough info. Tons of newer cars use electric power steering now, and most of them have settings that you can change that control how sensitive it is and how much boost it provides. On some newer cars those settings can completely change how the steering feels, from downright sporty all the way to Cadillac cruising. So just saying you hopped in a car with EPAS and didn't like it isn't really saying anything at all useful.

There's also a ton of opinions on the factory manual steering, I don't like the stock 24:1 stuff at all because it's just too slow, you have to turn the wheel a mile to get the car turned. But plenty of people here would hate my 16:1 manual steering too, especially with the 275's I run up front and 6.5°'s of caster I run. I think it's awesome at speed, but it's not easy.
 
We have a 23 ranger for a delivery truck and it has eps. It is a nightmare sometimes as it will steer where it wants due to the steering sensor. If you get on a crowned road, it goes where it wants to go. God forbid, if you try to keep it straight with your knee, like you can with reg steering. NOPE, is my vote.
 
rbkt65 said:
We have a 23 ranger for a delivery truck and it has eps. It is a nightmare sometimes as it will steer where it wants due to the steering sensor. If you get on a crowned road, it goes where it wants to go. God forbid, if you try to keep it straight with your knee, like you can with reg steering. NOPE, is my vote.
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The crowned road issue is 100% the alignment, not the epas. Ever confirmed the alignment specs?

Also, fyi, ‘23 rangers have been recalled for having improper load rated tires and improperly tightened lug nuts.

My wife had a ‘13 Mustang for awhile with an EPS rack, it had multiple adjustments for steering feel/reactivity, its sport and cruise modes felt very different at the wheel.
 
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72bluNblu said:
Yeah that's not nearly enough info. Tons of newer cars use electric power steering now, and most of them have settings that you can change that control how sensitive it is and how much boost it provides. On some newer cars those settings can completely change how the steering feels, from downright sporty all the way to Cadillac cruising. So just saying you hopped in a car with EPAS and didn't like it isn't really saying anything at all useful
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Well I searched the net and the owners manual for an adjustment as I expected to find one, I never did. In a car without a computer control I would expect the electronic assist to be more analog, rather than continuously variable.

As to whether my comment is usefully, well it is an experience I had, maybe it is not your experience.

It's not really your duty to decide if others experiences are usefully or not to the OP.

But thanks for sharing.
 
Dana67Dart said:
Well I searched the net and the owners manual for an adjustment as I expected to find one, I never did. In a car without a computer control I would expect the electronic assist to be more analog, rather than continuously variable.

As to whether my comment is usefully, well it is an experience I had, maybe it is not your experience.

It's not really your duty to decide if others experiences are usefully or not to the OP.

But thanks for sharing.
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I just pointed out that unless you’re going to bother even sharing the make and model there’s really no point considering it. There are a lot of cars using EPS out there, and I’m absolutely sure that some of them are better systems than others. To discount the entire technology simply because a car you won’t disclose wasn’t to your liking is not in fact useful, because those of us that actually want to learn about the technology can’t even look up the car in question and see if it’s an issue with that cars steering design, or the software running it, or just a poorly designed or cheap system. We can’t look and see if others share your opinion of that cars EPS either, maybe it’s a common problem/complaint with that car and we should look at why, or maybe you’re just an outlier.

Not all EPS systems are the same, there are a lot of different ways to accomplish EPS and even more ways to tune/control it. So unless someone wanted to use the EPS system out of that car in particular it may not be a relevant comment, and since none of us even know the car in question we can’t get any information beyond your vague negative impression.

Your experience isn’t useless, but your comment as currently posted is 100% useless for anyone wanting to actually learn how EPS works or whether it’s an option for them.
 
2021 Jeep Renegade
I did not share that originally because I did not see it's relevance, I agree there are good ones and bad ones but they all share the same basic technology
 
I have the Flaming River kit on my '69 Swinger 340. It did require shorting of my steering column. It's been working flawlessly for a couple of years now. I like the fact that it has a sensitivity adjustment knob and the ability to add a speed sensor so you can have more power assist when parking unless when driving down the road making the road feel better. I am going to add one of the fast ratio steering boxes next year and I don't like the amount of turns lock to lock.
 
Dana67Dart said:
2021 Jeep Renegade
I did not share that originally because I did not see it's relevance,
Click to expand...
A quick google search will pop up an entire laundry list of steering issues with '21 Renegades.

Dana67Dart said:
I agree there are good ones and bad ones but they all share the same basic technology
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This is massive oversimplification.

Yes, they all use an electric motor of some kind to reduce steering effort, some sensors and a control unit to figure out how/when to do that. But that's about it, and the actual execution of that is what makes the difference.

You can use a power rack, you can use an electric assist on the steering shaft (like would be used on our cars). You can change the number, type, and sensitivity of the sensors that read the steering inputs. You will have different hardware and capabilities on the control units. You will have different software to change the amount of boost and sensitivity of the system. On my wife's 2013 mustang you could change the mode (amount of boost and sensitivity) right from the drivers seat with a couple of buttons.

It's like saying the stock hydraulic power steering for these cars and the aftermarket Borgeson conversions use the same technology. Yup, absolutely they do. And one is such a massive improvement over the other it's not worth talking about the fact that they both use a hydraulic pump.
 
Dana67Dart said:
My daughter's new car has electronic power steering. We drove 1000 miles. I felt like I had to fight it the entire way. No relaxing.

My stock 67 dart with manual steering is effortless. just a little nudge to the left and a nudge to the right to go straight.
Click to expand...
Yep thats fine until you sitting still with 245 fronts trying to wrestle it out of a car spot.
 
This one has been a back burner idea for me for a while. I'm somewhat forced to manual steering due to my 3G Hemi swap (though I guess there are power boxes out there now that are compatible). I don't really want to add a whole hydraulic system though if I can get around it, so the thought of an electric one is tempting one of these days. I would likely go the $100 junkyard route with something like the Prius box (or one of many others out there). I might even be able to pipe a speed input into it and not just run it in failsafe mode like most do as I have a computer setup that I could custom broadcast CAN messages on, assuming I can find out what the control unit wants to see and talk to it. Just not sure how much room I have to work with on my 67 Dart as I'd likely have to keep it on the inside of the firewall. I think it might fit really well bolted directly to the firewall where the big flange on the stock column is now, but without a unit in hand to see what the motor might hit I don't know. Tempting either way, but low priority for me at the moment.
 
Map63Vette said:
This one has been a back burner idea for me for a while. I'm somewhat forced to manual steering due to my 3G Hemi swap (though I guess there are power boxes out there now that are compatible). I don't really want to add a whole hydraulic system though if I can get around it, so the thought of an electric one is tempting one of these days. I would likely go the $100 junkyard route with something like the Prius box (or one of many others out there). I might even be able to pipe a speed input into it and not just run it in failsafe mode like most do as I have a computer setup that I could custom broadcast CAN messages on, assuming I can find out what the control unit wants to see and talk to it. Just not sure how much room I have to work with on my 67 Dart as I'd likely have to keep it on the inside of the firewall. I think it might fit really well bolted directly to the firewall where the big flange on the stock column is now, but without a unit in hand to see what the motor might hit I don't know. Tempting either way, but low priority for me at the moment.
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I am still on the fence between the electric PS and a Borgeson box. There is are a couple of builds on here with the electric PS up under the dash. Look for the Gen1 Hemi, he had a picture.
 
DionR said:
I am still on the fence between the electric PS and a Borgeson box. There is are a couple of builds on here with the electric PS up under the dash. Look for the Gen1 Hemi, he had a picture.
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I think I saw one on an early A here in the past, but haven't dug around too much yet. I think there are a couple of good places it might fit, but without one in hand it's hard to say. Mostly thought it would be nice to mount it at the firewall since you need something for it to "push against" for the assist. Either that or the column mount itself seem like good candidates, but I think the column mount might be harder to work around as it's pretty shallow and not sure which direction the motor could face. May just have to keep my eyes out and see if I can pick up a box super cheap to hold up and test fit with. Maybe I can put my 3D scanner to good use and scan the area to get an idea of clearances one of these days. I've got lots of ideas of things to scan on the Dart with it in the past few weeks.
 
Map63Vette said:
I think I saw one on an early A here in the past, but haven't dug around too much yet. I think there are a couple of good places it might fit, but without one in hand it's hard to say. Mostly thought it would be nice to mount it at the firewall since you need something for it to "push against" for the assist. Either that or the column mount itself seem like good candidates, but I think the column mount might be harder to work around as it's pretty shallow and not sure which direction the motor could face. May just have to keep my eyes out and see if I can pick up a box super cheap to hold up and test fit with. Maybe I can put my 3D scanner to good use and scan the area to get an idea of clearances one of these days. I've got lots of ideas of things to scan on the Dart with it in the past few weeks.
Click to expand...

The article I linked above in post #6 has a full install on a '68 Barracuda. There are others, that was a kit install I know that there's a couple of homemade installs on here as well.
 
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