Electric water pump drive, any gains in ET?

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flyfish

flyfish

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I just put an electric water pump drive on my mechanical water pump mainly for the ability to cool the car better between rounds….but I was hoping for a little drop in the ET as well. Has anyone seen significant drops in ET with one of these? I run 1/8 mile, so I was hoping for something like 0.05 ish seconds.
 
flyfish said:
I just put an electric water pump drive on my mechanical water pump mainly for the ability to cool the car better between rounds….but I was hoping for a little drop in the ET as well. Has anyone seen significant drops in ET with one of these? I run 1/8 mile, so I was hoping for something like 0.05 ish seconds.
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Going strictly from 25 year memory here, but they used to say it was something like 25-30 HP to run the WP at 7,000 rpm. I had no facts to back that up, just what I was told. Thus, I used to run an electric pump on my deal, as I used to shift the 383 at 7200.
 
i tested a stock setup vs a mezerie pump

the electric setup was worth 1.5 et and 1.5 mph on an 11 sec car.
 
My 340 fish has a little electric motor turning a small belt driving the water pump. I don't know how much power it saves but I like to be able to turn on and off the pump to help warm up the engine. No belts on the engine now except the alternator.
 
DJVCUDA said:
i tested a stock setup vs a mezerie pump

the electric setup was worth 1.5 et and 1.5 mph on an 11 sec car.
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Is that with or without a charging alternator, and how large was the alternator if used?
 
i put 1 on my car didnt see any change but did get to cool down faster.....my car was going 7.44/7.50 in the 1/8 mile
 
67Dart273 said:
Is that with or without a charging alternator, and how large was the alternator if used?
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with - a street car - It was in an old mopar enthusiast magazine if they were still available online you could read up on it.

The alt was 100 amp i think
 
On a very consistent 10 second car, I didn't see any ET/MPH improvement replacing a stock parts store water pump with a high dollar meziere electric. The alternator was installed, but not charging when we made passes.

It was pretty disappointing as I recall. The car was a LOT easier to cool down between rounds, though. We ended up having to put a heater on it to keep the oil at temp. ;)

At some point I tried one of the moroso water pump drive deals and would shut if off while going down the track. Didn't get anything out of that either.

I have consistently seen improvement with an electric fan (which has varied a lot based on the car it was on), but of course, the fan isn't on when the car goes down the track.

I'm thinking of putting the pump drive deal on the Dart, just to be able to cool the car better between rounds.
 
I'm racing this weekend, so I'll post the results I get...good or bad....of course the weather is suppose to be REALLY HOT, so I guess I might have to use a little math to make a fair comparison.
 
I was going to say 10 horsepower before I saw DJVCUDA's post. If I remember correctly a dyno test I saw years ago the p/s, alternator, water pump was like a 23 hp draw. It must have been significant because car manufactureres prior to 72 dynoed production engines without any accesories attached to the front of the engine. I dont know which of the three draws would be the most I would guess it would vary from motor to motor depending on things like belt length, pulley size, fan... regular or clutch .

On the situation of the alternator not charging while running down the 1/4....years ago Hot Rod or one of the car mags did a test with the alternator switched to not charge during the 1/4 and the car actually slowed down a small bit, if I remember correctly it was because between the fan, fuel pump, and other electrical draws, the amount of available voltage dropped enough to affect the ignition.
 
They are nice because you run the pump with the car off
After your run.
I run a plastic puller fan attached to the drive and a pusher electric fan in front of the radiator works very well.
Just ordered up a new aluminum griifin radiator last night hoping to see what that does.
 
What I can tell you is.......

I removed my headers and went with my original manifolds.

I removed my slicks and went with E70-14 bias plys

I removed my electric water pump and went with a stock one.

I removed my electric fan and went with mopar clutch fan.



The result..........

Went from an 11.78 @ 118 mph to a 13.2 @ 105 mph

That's 1.42 seconds and 13 mph in the quarter.
 
dustoff440 said:
On the situation of the alternator not charging while running down the 1/4...............the car actually slowed down.............. the amount of available voltage dropped enough to affect the ignition.
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You would have to set this up "to advantage." The stock ignition is designed to operate on 14V, not 12. So you'd have to have a system where you could bypass the resistor to take advantage, some racers actually use special batteries with one or two MORE cells

I find it hard to believe that there isn't a fair amount of difference, let's add it all up.

The alternator itself is NOT that inefficient, BUT the belt drive friction, friction in the bearings, the HP of the fan itself, and the water pump. All together this HAS to be a fair amount of HP

So if you can get this down to a race with the car running (speculation) the ignition running off a special 14V battery, or an ignition optimized for a 12v battery,

Maybe a separate battery for starting, fans, electric pump,

Theory says it HAS to make a difference.
 
Quick update:

My comparison is going to have to wait for a few weeks until my next race (August 6-7). This last weekend the car threw the alternator belt on EVERY pass (pulley alignment issues), so I don't have a good comparison yet....however, the car did pick up more than the 0.05 I was hoping for. I'm just not sure how much of that was from loosing the alternator too.

I'll post back in a few weeks when I get the pulley alignment issues fixed and race again.
 
My results were inconclusive. I kept fighting the "belt flying off" problem through the end of the race season. On the few passes that it stayed on I would say it helped some (a few hundredths in the 1/8 mile), but even those runs were here and there....not consistent to say for sure that it helped. However, cooling between rounds is sure easier now, which is the main reason for one of these I guess. It also cools well enough to drive around town.
 
Any body us a alt. charging disconect?

It's Easy then you might think.

Isolate you voltage regulator from the fire wall so it's no longer grounded.
Get a door switch or one of them hood alarm switchs

build a bracket so that when the throttle is at full throttle the door sw is open.

now run a wire from the Voltage reg case to the sw.

Voltage req grounded= charging
No ground aka full throttle no alt charge.

I killed a tenth

and consistance was improve do to the fact, the state of charge was not a issue any more with my E.T

when i build this thing 3 year a go, i thought it might burn up a few requlators.
Still on the same one!

flyfish, if your belt throwing issue was the same as mine, it becouse you have a AC Crank pulley and a non AC alt braket.(or maybe it was the other way around)
I shimed my alt to the moon and back, replace the complete set up off of my 73 pk problem solved!

pk don't turn enough rpm to throw the belt.

Sorry spell check not working for me tonight:happy3:
 
Fst73_360 said:
ya thanks. I had dibs on that and you cut line. :banghead::wack:
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The seller didn't say anything about a sale pending and I didn't see anything in the thread where you had dibs, you just asked a couple questions. If you want it that bad, you can have it.
 
64physhy said:
The seller didn't say anything about a sale pending and I didn't see anything in the thread where you had dibs, you just asked a couple questions. If you want it that bad, you can have it.
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Nope, over it. Said I was interested, basically stating I want it until other wise noted, pretty sure first to show interest is first in line, but its fine, have fun with the new toy. Good Day:tongue7:

http://www.forabodiesonly.com/mopar/showthread.php?t=163538
(person says interested, next person says, 2nd inline).
 
we threw a Alt+W/P belt on an onramp on a friends 351C Mustang, It felt like we hit a 50HP shot of nitrous...the motor really felt like it was unleashed without that parasitic drag...Why dont they put thermo-clutches on water pump pulleys?
 
pishta said:
we threw a Alt+W/P belt on an onramp on a friends 351C Mustang, It felt like we hit a 50HP shot of nitrous...the motor really felt like it was unleashed without that parasitic drag...Why dont they put thermo-clutches on water pump pulleys?
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have you ever ran a street car for more then a mile without a waterpump... thats why they don't do that, insted alot of manufacturers these days are switching to electric waterpumps that are remotely located away from the engine
 
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