Eric's cam challenge

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Newbomb Turk said:
He doesn’t get it because his hero didn’t win, place or show.

If he did he’d be blowing DV silly about how great he is.

I thought Winegartner laid out what the test was all about.

And then you had clowns like Mike Jones who bad mouthed the test and everything else but didn’t send in a cam because he knew he’d suck.

And he’s saying the same **** the DV defenders are saying.

The upshot of the testing was because he was tired of calling 10 different cam companies and getting 15 different answers.

The reason he didn’t degree the cams is because most guys STILL don’t degree the cam. They throw it in and line up the dots and send it. His testing reflected that group of end users.

Same thing with tuning. The vast majority of guys don’t even start out on the dyno. They just gut it out.

You can do it but it takes 10 times longer. Maybe more if you have an inconsistent driver.

So it’s dot to dot, leave the tuning alone and see what happens.

To claim his testing is invalid and/or pointless is ignorant. It makes perfect sense when you think about it.

Then you have the “wine and cheese” crowd, the long haired dope smokers and the nattering naybobs who pick apart ANY testing not done with a multi-million dollar setup because any and all testing is invalid.

That just makes me laugh. I get that if you need to meter fuel with an eye dropper or you need to be working out to the fourth digit you need that type of accuracy.

I still argue that that’s still mostly mental masturbation unless they are duplicating the exact conditions in the dyno room to the track.

And, that information only matches IF the track weather is exactly like it was in the dyno cell.

I have watched the testing more to watch the people with no skin in the game *****, whine and snivel about how it’s all wrong and proves nothing.

That’s what losers say when they get beat.
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Post of the year.
 
ch1ll said:
Just so you know cause I believe a bunch of y’all don’t follow DV and actually just don’t like him, he said he believed his grind would not come out on top.
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Most here probably read/watch DV over the years I own most of his books and read his articles and watched lot of his video's, not a hater, it's mainly how his fans put him on a pedestal and he's not vary modest also, I think you could generally do worst then follow DV, but some quote him like scripture and doubting is blasphemist.
ch1ll said:
What he should have done other than sending in his street car grind, he should have sent in a second cam with a radical full blown dyno race grind.
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Possibility be nice to see more specs
ch1ll said:
Lobe profiles matter not just timing events.
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I bet if he added 5-10+ degrees of exhaust duration he would of done better mainly he was down on power.
 
Go to ANY drag and drive event, sick week, drag week, no prep event, local bracket night, local oval track race, and walk through the pits, ask how many vizard engines or cams are being used. There are none. The guy doesn't build engines', he writes books. I have researched extensively to find proof of all his legendary testing, and cant find any. He also claims he was a race winner driver in some European small car deal, but I haven't seen any evidence that any of that happened either. The guy is the "OG snake oil salesman"
 
fishmens67 said:
I don't think the test proved jack squat.
Good for a magazine page is about it.
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Yes and no, it's all about more information, not gonna show anything definitive.

But there is things to be learned from it.

Even custom cams are gonna vary wildly, specs and results.
Seemly dissimilar cam specs can end up having similar results, more than one way to get there.
There was some overall trends in specs with certain outputs.

But it didn't show that all the cams with similar specs as cam number 1 will make similar power also.
 
One of the big takeaways for me(well, more of a reinforcement of a belief than a new revelation) which is something I’ve preached for a while, is that……..if you really want to know how well something works…….you need to test it.

With regards to cam data, this test illustrated that looking at numbers on a cam card “might” give you an idea of how it will work out…….but it might not.
 
replicaracer43 said:
Go to ANY drag and drive event, sick week, drag week, no prep event, local bracket night, local oval track race, and walk through the pits, ask how many vizard engines or cams are being used. There are none. The guy doesn't build engines', he writes books. I have researched extensively to find proof of all his legendary testing, and cant find any. He also claims he was a race winner driver in some European small car deal, but I haven't seen any evidence that any of that happened either. The guy is the "OG snake oil salesman"
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Think he raced Mini's and got a couple of muffler patents.

I do think his books are a 1st good step for someone new to performance, I don't think anyone else gives as good overall understanding from nothing to novice. Problem is some take what he says as gospel and won't let any other information "in" won't question his theories, so they become a forever DV quoting machine.
 
Why the hell would anyone send in a “street car grind” camshaft to a camshaft competition where average hp/tq AND peak hp/tq is what’s being tested and graded on? Vizard is saying he lost because he compromised in his cam choice to make it more streetable? You’ve got to be fuckin kidding me. He cared about the valvetrain in a dyno mule? Piss off. I ain’t believing that.
 
PRH said:
One of the big takeaways for me(well, more of a reinforcement of a belief than a new revelation) which is something I’ve preached for a while, is that……..if you really want to know how well something works…….you need to test it.

With regards to cam data, this test illustrated that looking at numbers on a cam card “might” give you an idea of how it will work out…….but it might not.
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I took away a stronger reassurance of a belief I already held as well. Don’t be afraid to rip the front of the engine apart and stick another cam in it. I think people feel like once they pick a cam they’re stuck with it for life. And I definitely do not.
 
TT5.9mag said:
Why the hell would anyone send in a “street car grind” camshaft to a camshaft competition where average hp/tq AND peak hp/tq is what’s being tested and graded on? Vizard is saying he lost because he compromised in his cam choice to make it more streetable? You’ve got to be fuckin kidding me. He cared about the valvetrain in a dyno mule? Piss off. I ain’t believing that.
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Especially this is a chance for him to shutdown some of his naysayers he argues with, one of them being Eric.
 
273 said:
You look for the trends, there is a somewhat pattern to it's seemingly randomness but in the end of the day its only one test for one engine. But does show there's probably many different ways to get there (similar results).
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Right. That's the point I've been trying to make all along. There's more than one way to get to the same place.
 
TT5.9mag said:
I took away a stronger reassurance of a belief I already held as well. Don’t be afraid to rip the front of the engine apart and stick another cam in it. I think people feel like once they pick a cam they’re stuck with it for life. And I definitely do not.
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That's what I don't get, everyone wants to build the perfect combo from day one I get it makes sense but generally your gonna have to play around and try a few things to get it dialed in.


What would be interesting if these guy's did round two, now they got a baseline see what they would send in and how close the results would be and if they could top these power numbers.
 
273 said:
That's what I don't get, everyone wants to build the perfect combo from day one I get it makes sense but generally your gonna have to play around and try a few things to get it dialed in.


What would be interesting if these guy's did round two, now they got a baseline see what they would send in and how close the results would be and if they could top these power numbers.
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I like the round 2 idea. The only rule is you can’t send in the same specs as the first time. I know there was a lift limit so keep that the same but every other parameter has to be different than your first cam.
 
273 said:
That's what I don't get, everyone wants to build the perfect combo from day one I get it makes sense but generally your gonna have to play around and try a few things to get it dialed in.


What would be interesting if these guy's did round two, now they got a baseline see what they would send in and how close the results would be and if they could top these power numbers.
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That's where I'm different. I don't give two craps about perfect. I'm gonna build something that I KNOW from my own experience will slap get the job done. Just like this slant 6 on the stand. I couldda toiled for months over a camshaft. I didn't. I picked a tried and true [email protected] on a 108 and .492 lift. It'll run so good, it won't be funny. Left some on the table? Who gives a chit?
 
RustyRatRod said:
That's where I'm different. I don't give two craps about perfect. I'm gonna build something that I KNOW from my own experience will slap get the job done. Just like this slant 6 on the stand. I couldda toiled for months over a camshaft. I didn't. I picked a tried and true [email protected] on a 108 and .492 lift. It'll run so good, it won't be funny. Left some on the table? Who gives a chit?
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But you’ve already done the testing and have some experience with that grind to know what it does. I’m saying the one part of the bottom end you don’t really have to live with is the cam.
 
TT5.9mag said:
But you’ve already done the testing and have some experience with that grind to know what it does. I’m saying the one part of the bottom end you don’t really have to live with is the cam.
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I've done no testing with "that" cam. But I am familiar with the specs. I know it'll WORK.
 
ch1ll said:
I did not say it was not fair, I believe it was fair. Every entrant was told the parameters. The test had to be done in an economical way. Otherwise it would have been a month of dyno time and no sleep for Eric.

I don’t believe it showed the true capabilities of each cam grind.
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But that was the whole point. The testing was to simulate what happens a good bit of time and that is get a cam, stick it in and go.

You’re old enough and been around enough to know that I’d say a majority of engine builds on this site not done by a shop (and some shops can’t degree a cam so there is that) get installed dot to dot.

I can’t believe it’s 2025 and guys still won’t spend the time and money to degree the cam. But it happens. A lot.

That was his whole point. I think he at least met expectations of how he set up the test. I’d say he worked his *** off and exceeded my expectations for sure.

That’s the beauty of dyno testing. You can set up about any testing you can think of. It’s not always about max power pulls (hang on…I have to throw up in my mouth a bit because that statement hurts) so you can test anything you think you want to learn.

I think it was @mbaird that put his engine on a dyno near him and they did very few power pulls. IIRC, and I tagged him so maybe he will see this and correct me if I’m wrong they spent most of the time doing part throttle work.

That dyno operator is rare. Most guys just start making power pulls. That’s ok but you can do more than that.

This is an example of setting up a test to see the results of just one change.
 
ch1ll said:
Just so you know cause I believe a bunch of y’all don’t follow DV and actually just don’t like him, he said he believed his grind would not come out on top.

What he should have done other than sending in his street car grind, he should have sent in a second cam with a radical full blown dyno race grind.

Lobe profiles matter not just timing events.
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If you don't believe in what you're doing, then what is the point of doing it ???
 
fishmens67 said:
We already know that, these tests have been done for years.
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Even confirmation is useful, but I found the results to be surprising and interesting and always glad when people share their dyno results since I don't and never will have one.
 
273 said:
Even confirmation is useful, but I found the results to be surprising and interesting and always glad when people share their dyno results since I don't and never will have one.
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You don’t need to own a dyno. Find one local to you and go make friends. Maybe you can become a you tube dyno testing hero.
 
MOPARMAGA said:
If you don't believe in what you're doing, then what is the point of doing it ???
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Especially when your reputation is on the line, he's trying to sell his cam program, I doubt these results will inspire many buyers.
 
TT5.9mag said:
You don’t need to own a dyno. Find one local to you and go make friends. Maybe you can become a you tube dyno testing hero.
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One of the downsides of doing a lot of testing are those, “well……..that didn’t work” moments.

Those are real learning moments.
When something you were pretty sure was going to be great……..wasn’t.
 
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