F.I. Tech or Holley sniper. Opinions from users.

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racerjoe said:
I'm using an MS3X (Megasquirt) It has full sequential fuel and spark. The throttle body is an Ebay special. The only bad thing is it's imported from China and the seller has zero information on what sensors it uses. I had to figure that out on my own, which wasn't that bad. I think I paid $180 for it. You can buy name brands out there for $500+, which is ridiculous, but I guess you would know what sensors it would accept....
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I've got a crazy-*** idea to do an individual throttle body setup, eight TBs and eight injectors. Need to find a controller that will handle that. Still early in the concept phase but I think I can adapt the HW from my 2000 BMW M5
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gzig5 said:
I've got a crazy-*** idea to do an individual throttle body setup, eight TBs and eight injectors. Need to find a controller that will handle that. Still early in the concept phase but I think I can adapt the HW from my 2000 BMW M5
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I like your thinking. It isn't, however, that crazy. There are companies out there that make ITB EFI setups for Chevy, Ford, and even G2 and G3 Hemis. The crazy part will be adapting those to either an LA or B/RB engine since the intake runners are close together. Either way, someone with fab skills better than mine can likely get it done.
As far as finding a controller, I'd say any of the more modern controllers will work. Megasquirt has a fueling functions called Alpha-N. I believe it fuels based on engine RPM and throttle position as opposed to manifold vacuum when using speed density control. Thant being said, I see a rubber hose connecting the ITB banks together. That is likely manifold vacuum. I've also seen a modern LS with hoses from under each throttle blade brought to a block and that was the vacuum reference. You should be able to run it on speed density with that vacuum signal. Now, I don't know how stable the vacuum signal will be since there is essentially no plenum volume.
As far as sensors, no reason you can't use standard GM sensors for MAP, and IAT. I'd use the BMW TPS.
 
gzig5 said:
I've got a crazy-*** idea to do an individual throttle body setup, eight TBs and eight injectors. Need to find a controller that will handle that. Still early in the concept phase but I think I can adapt the HW from my 2000 BMW M5
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Very doable! Use this intake: Chevy SBC 350 Cross Ram Webber Stack Intake Manifold Satin | eBay

It's a SBC manifold. You have to cut it in half lengthwise for port alignment (between cylinders 3 and 5 as well as 4 and 6) and add spacers plates (mount the two pieces of the manifold on the spacer plates). The spacers are necessary as the SBC is not as wide as an RB engine. The good thing is both SBC and B/RB engines have the same intake manifold flange angle (55°) - so spacers are easy to make.

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ChargerST said:
Very doable! Use this intake: Chevy SBC 350 Cross Ram Webber Stack Intake Manifold Satin | eBay

It's a SBC manifold. You have to cut it in half lengthwise for port alignment (between cylinders 3 and 5 as well as 4 and 6) and add spacers plates (mount the two pieces of the manifold on the spacer plates). The spacers are necessary as the SBC is not as wide as an RB engine. The good thing is both SBC and B/RB engines have the same intake manifold flange angle (55°) - so spacers are easy to make.

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Something like that was what I had in mind. I've got a MIG with a spool and a TIG so fabbing shouldnt' be a problem. Just got to get past the other "needs" the car has first.
 
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This has been a great read. I would consider myself an early adopter of EFI as I have been running it on my drag car for several years. It is a stroked 440 making well north of 600 HP. As many have stated I had to be creative to make it work. From fabricating parts to putting in vette coils. At that point Mopar EFI was not very popular. I too went Mega Squirt3 for the independence and data logging. On my latest build I am running all Holley, my personal opinion is they are being far more supportive and creative than their competitors. I don’t remember which one of you guys said it but I feel it is very true. To run EFI in these old cars you have to have a thirst for new things and a innate curiosity for how something works. Short of a LS platform there is just no plug and play solutions. You are simply going to need to tinker a bit and be patient if you are running Mopar. Enclosed is a pix of my Holley stack for EFI. As most on here know it takes way more than just an ECU. In summary back to OPs original question I vote Holley.
 
You really can’t compare throttle body and sequential multi port. The edelbrock offers and assembled intake and a distributor for 1800. The electronic carb is 900. For the cost, I think the edelbrock is a better deal.
I’ve installed many fitechs including my own, about 8 throttle body systems, multi port and a dual quad. This includes installation where everything is soldered and shrink wrapped with marine grade materials. The fitech was rushed to market and has failures regularly because of poorly made hardware. Countless ecus have been replaced including 2 of my units. You don’t hear about this as much with other brands. I’ve done one sniper and 2 Holley terminators all with zero failures and 5 yrs on the terminator systems.
I’m willing to give Edelbrock a try as they’ve been at this game for 20 yrs now. The PF4 should be a winner if installed properly with an engine with an acceptable cam.
 
plumkrazee70 said:
Ive read alot of folks having trouble with the ECU, but what I can determine, is folks weren't using relays on their fuel pumps, thus overloading the main connector and frying the ECU. I also think, FI Tech is a little to blame due to their poor instructions on that matter.
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Absolutely incorrect. Most people here haven’t heard of solid state switching. Not everything uses a mechanical relay. My 255LPh pump drew 11 amps which is fine for the fitech. Since I see lots of very poor wiring online, I’m going to guess people don’t use soldered connections and may even down grade when extending the wire to the pump. Fitech screwed up with the undersized terminals on the deutch connectors and changed them on later units. They didn’t bother to tell anyone...
 
Seems like it's quite possible to have an off the shelf multi-port EFI setup for small and big block Mopars. We just need more aftermarket manufacturer support.

Holley manufactures most the parts to do this, except for the intake and maybe the crank position tone ring. Yes, Edelbrock has their Pro Flo 4 setup at a somewhat affordable price. I believe they are the only manufacturer to make an EFI intake for RB and small block Mopars. I think Edelbrock have yet to make one for B Blocks. Personally, I think Edelbrock's small block EFI intake is a bit tall though, but that's just my opinion.

What's it take to petition these manufacturers to support the Mopar community? Let's start a petition or something! (Oh god, I just turned into one of those people. LOL)

One other thing, if you search YouTube you'll see a plethora of videos demonstrating the installation and use of said EFI units (throttle body or multi-point) on plenty of other makes other than Mopar. Even obscure GM makes like Pontiac and Oldsmobile.

Actually, I think that's where Edelbrock is really dropping the ball with the Mopar community. The Mopar community seems to be an old school skeptical bunch, and it needs to see proof of concept before shelling out a bunch of dough on a fuel system.

I think that is what has kept me to taking the plunge and purchasing the Pro Flo 4 kit. I can afford it, I don't want to be the guinea pig. I'm almost sold on the Sniper Throttle body EFI (or as @GMachineDartGT put it, an electronic carburetor) just because I've seen quite a few videos of Mopars running with it and people giving it praise. Although, I much rather have multi-port EFI though, which is why I've stuck to my AVS for now.
 
JoesEdge said:
Seems like it's quite possible to have an off the shelf multi-port EFI setup for small and big block Mopars. We just need more aftermarket manufacturer support.

Holley manufactures most the parts to do this, except for the intake and maybe the crank position tone ring. Yes, Edelbrock has their Pro Flo 4 setup at a somewhat affordable price. I believe they are the only manufacturer to make an EFI intake for RB and small block Mopars. I think Edelbrock have yet to make one for B Blocks. Personally, I think Edelbrock's small block EFI intake is a bit tall though, but that's just my opinion.

What's it take to petition these manufacturers to support the Mopar community? Let's start a petition or something! (Oh god, I just turned into one of those people. LOL)

One other thing, if you search YouTube you'll see a plethora of videos demonstrating the installation and use of said EFI units (throttle body or multi-point) on plenty of other makes other than Mopar. Even obscure GM makes like Pontiac and Oldsmobile.

Actually, I think that's where Edelbrock is really dropping the ball with the Mopar community. The Mopar community seems to be an old school skeptical bunch, and it needs to see proof of concept before shelling out a bunch of dough on a fuel system.

I think that is what has kept me to taking the plunge and purchasing the Pro Flo 4 kit. I can afford it, I don't want to be the guinea pig. I'm almost sold on the Sniper Throttle body EFI (or as @GMachineDartGT put it, an electronic carburetor) just because I've seen quite a few videos of Mopars running with it and people giving it praise. Although, I much rather have multi-port EFI though, which is why I've stuck to my AVS for now.
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Don’t get hung up on the style of intake. Since it’s dry, the selection process is a different ball game. The intake is tall but the throttle body is shorter than a carb.
Let’s not kid ourselves, the Mopar market is very small. You should be thankful for a product like this in the first place. Considering it includes an assembled intake and a distributor, it’s a great deal.
 
I'm still hoping someone posts some before and after engine or chassis dyno data on carb vs TBFI, carb vs Port FI, or TBFI vs Port FI....
I looked a while ago and couldn't find anything, let alone on a Mopar.
 
gzig5 said:
I've got a crazy-*** idea to do an individual throttle body setup, eight TBs and eight injectors. Need to find a controller that will handle that. Still early in the concept phase but I think I can adapt the HW from my 2000 BMW M5
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I bought a set of similar ones, and THEN scored a SB Mopar Hilborn manifold. I hope some day.............You can do this with either a Holley HP/ dominator or Megasquirt there are quite a few that have.
 
gzig5 said:
I'm still hoping someone posts some before and after engine or chassis dyno data on carb vs TBFI, carb vs Port FI, or TBFI vs Port FI....
I looked a while ago and couldn't find anything, let alone on a Mopar.
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Unless your racing, worrying about horsepower is like a pissing contest. If that number is important to you, then cool. There's no fault in that, really. That number is nice to have, but I'm more concerned with how happy my engine is.

Will it be happy if I drive it from my house up to Big Bear Lake, CA (that's from 118 feet to 6,752 feet)? Will it be happy if I start it in the cold (for me, that would be high 40's)? Will it be happy on long drives to San Diego? How about up the coast? What about in bumper to bumper traffic in Los Angeles? That's what interests me more. Some of you might only drive your car from time to time, but my Duster is driven every week a few times a week.

For the record, I drove it to Big Bear Lake once with my Edelbrock AVS, and my engine didn't like me very much. I kept stalling out. Obviously, was running rich and I could definitely tell since I have an AFR gauge.

I've also driven it to San Diego a few times too. If I had an overdrive, I would totally drive it to Vegas for Mopars on the Strip. I drive it in Los Angeles bumper to bumper traffic too. I've driven it through Mullhuland drive numerous times (not to far from where Kevin Hart wrecked his 'Cuda).
 
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gzig5 said:
I'm still hoping someone posts some before and after engine or chassis dyno data on carb vs TBFI, carb vs Port FI, or TBFI vs Port FI....
I looked a while ago and couldn't find anything, let alone on a Mopar.
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If you're thinking EFI will give you more HP, think again. The theory has been proven many times. At the end of the day, a properly tuned EFI system vs. a properly tuned carb, should result in very similar HP levels. Don't forget an engine is an air pump. You can jamb as much air and fuel (N/A of course) and it is only volumetrically efficient enough to make a certain power level regardless of what component is putting said air and fuel into it.
The biggest benfits I've seen on my car is driveability. The coolant temperature control is amazing. I was never able to controlled engine temperature before. I've sat in traffic and it will never get over 195 when it's 98 degrees outside. This is on a 408ci, aluminum head, roller cam, motor with nearly 10:1 compression. What comes with high temperature, vapor lock. No problem there anymore either. It's gotten a little cooler around here lately. Over the weekend, I simply reached in the window and hit the key. It started right up. None of this jockeying the throttle to get the old cold-natured mopar to stay running. Oh one last thing. I had to stop abruptly this weekend for a red light. With a carb, I think we all know what happens 7 out 10 times when you do that, the engine dies. It kept running like nothing happened.
 
Don't see that any one has mentioned that the Edelbrock setup is LA bolt pattern only. Not an issue if you don't already have heads with the vertical Magnum bolt pattern.

For me, I would have to add the cost of new/different heads to run the ProFlo4.

AFAIK, there are only 2 off the shelf EFI intakes for SBM, the Edelbrock Victor and the Hughes, one each for the different bolt pattern.
 
DionR said:
Don't see that any one has mentioned that the Edelbrock setup is LA bolt pattern only. Not an issue if you don't already have heads with the vertical Magnum bolt pattern.

For me, I would have to add the cost of new/different heads to run the ProFlo4.

AFAIK, there are only 2 off the shelf EFI intakes for SBM, the Edelbrock Victor and the Hughes, one each for the different bolt pattern.
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The other difference between those two intakes mentioned (other than the bolt pattern) is that the Edelbrock intake is single plane (LA pattern) and the Hughes (also made by Edelbrock) is a dual plane (Magnum pattern). Just thought I'd make note of that.
 
I have no doubt the FI is going to give better drive-ability over a carb. But there is a reason the OEMs went from TB to port injection and probably not because it was cheaper. I guess I was more interested the TB vs Port and if there was any HP advantage, throttle response, fuel economy, etc and if so, how much.
 
gzig5 said:
I have no doubt the FI is going to give better drive-ability over a carb. But there is a reason the OEMs went from TB to port injection and probably not because it was cheaper. I guess I was more interested the TB vs Port and if there was any HP advantage, throttle response, fuel economy, etc and if so, how much.
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From what I understand, port injection will allow for a leaner idle. I can and do run mine right at stoich. It also idles fine leaner than stoich. I don't have any experience with TBI, but I've read they need to idle slightly richer than stoich. I'm curious to find out the validity of this based on others experience. I also think port injection allows engineers to get creative with intake manifold designs to optimize HP and efficiency since they only have to worry about air flow and not fuel flowing through those complex designs.
 
Makes sense that with the fuel being atomized and injected right at the back of the intake valve that you would get a better, more efficient mixture.
 
I think port injection was mostly for driveability, idle quality, and EMISSIONS. It might help fuel mileage some. Also from what I've read, (and I initially was guilty of this) getting all excited about sequential injection instead of bank to bank is another worry "we" can just do without.
 
gzig5 said:
I'm still hoping someone posts some before and after engine or chassis dyno data on carb vs TBFI, carb vs Port FI, or TBFI vs Port FI....
I looked a while ago and couldn't find anything, let alone on a Mopar.
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For me it's not about dyno it's about driveability and efficiency making the same power not so much more.
 
With the FiTech being 900+ cfm and the ECU handling the fuel requirements the engine can have all the air it needs with EFI. I dont think a 900 CFM carb will be very streetable.
 
gzig5 said:
I have no doubt the FI is going to give better drive-ability over a carb. But there is a reason the OEMs went from TB to port injection and probably not because it was cheaper. I guess I was more interested the TB vs Port and if there was any HP advantage, throttle response, fuel economy, etc and if so, how much.
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They could do more precise fuel delivery with port.
 
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