Factory old iron just can't compete ... ??

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318willrun

318willrun

Utube channel 318willrun
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Block strength. It's the only two words that jump out in my mind. Love them or hate them, ugly or not, the engines of recent muscle car years offer block strength. Our old iron blocks are at risk when pushing the HP close to 4 digits. Seems the new gen blocks of Ford, GM, or Mopar can handle HP well into the 4 digits. Big Boost, Big NOS systems, doesn't matter with new gen blocks. They make big HP. Street cars that can run 4 second 1/8 mile and 7 second 1/4 mile seem to be less rare these days. Who is competing with factory old iron?
 
Watched whistlindiesel run his 1400 hp '69 Charger down the interstate just cruisin, then in nonsense go down the 1/4 mile on the rev limiter the entire way and still run mid 9's at almost 150 mph as it snapped and popped on the rev limiter all... the way... down the track. LS turbo, I know.
 
318willrun said:
Watched whistlindiesel run his 1400 hp '69 Charger down the interstate just cruisin, then in nonsense go down the 1/4 mile on the rev limiter the entire way and still run mid 9's at almost 150 mph as it snapped and popped on the rev limiter all... the way... down the track. LS turbo, I know.
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The last 10 years have been the golden age of muscle.. the new motors are just amazing.. i love my older motors but i don't desire over 450-500 hp :)
 
not to throw this off course...it's great they can handle all this power but is it in your budget? do the best you can with what you have. those that know will be impressed and those that don't, who cares?
 
318willrun said:
Block strength. It's the only two words that jump out in my mind. Love them or hate them, ugly or not, the engines of recent muscle car years offer block strength. Our old iron blocks are at risk when pushing the HP close to 4 digits. Seems the new gen blocks of Ford, GM, or Mopar can handle HP well into the 4 digits. Big Boost, Big NOS systems, doesn't matter with new gen blocks. They make big HP. Street cars that can run 4 second 1/8 mile and 7 second 1/4 mile seem to be less rare these days. Who is competing with factory old iron?
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Credit it to deep skirts and cross bolted mains, which "a few" of our muscle car era blocks had.
 
Think about it...
50 plus years ago the V8s were just coming of age.

Now they are seasoned.

50 more years of trial and error, material compositions, machining technics, computer modeling. Have built some of the lightest and strongest engines, not to mention the electronics.

Imagine the fuel economy that could be had if fuel had 100+ octane and engines had 10 + compression.
 
Dana67Dart said:
Think about it...
50 plus years ago the V8s were just coming of age.

Now they are seasoned.

50 more years of trial and error, material compositions, machining technics, computer modeling. Have built some of the lightest and strongest engines, not to mention the electronics.

Imagine the fuel economy that could be had if fuel had 100+ octane and engines had 10 + compression.
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:wtf:
 
abdywgn said:
not to throw this off course...it's great they can handle all this power but is it in your budget? do the best you can with what you have. those that know will be impressed and those that don't, who cares?
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Actually, most buy a 700 hundred dollar junkyard motor and put ebay turbos on them and make 800 hp without a yawn. So actually, they are very budget friendly. You would spend more trying to make 500 HP with a 360. Is it what I'm doing? Not to date, it's really not my cup of tea. But it don't change the facts just because I don't do it.....
 
Not many need or want 4 digit horsepower and many that achieve it can’t handle it. Chassis wise and talent wise. Many many of these guys but these store bought powerhouse cars and wrap them around a pole shortly after.
 
My buddy Tom from the dyno thread I posted went aluminum block when he got to 700 horse or so. He studied up and felt there was a limit. His mew engine has spun 880 horse and shouldn't be attempted with a factory cast block. They were never designed for double the original horsepower.
 
pittsburghracer said:
Not many need or want 4 digit horsepower and many that achieve it can’t handle it. Chassis wise and talent wise. Many many of these guys but these store bought powerhouse cars and wrap them around a pole shortly after.
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They are always up into the rhubarb. There is no reason to haze the tires at 100+, mid track, when you have another 1/8 mile to go. They might be fun and fast but rarely are they consistent enough to win a race.
 
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RustyRatRod said:
Credit it to deep skirts and cross bolted mains, which "a few" of our muscle car era blocks had.
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Agree. When the factory makes 500 - 840 HP engines and then have to back them with a warranty, you end up with a strong block.
 
toolmanmike said:
They are always up into the rhubarb. There is no reason to haze the tires at 120+, mid track, when you have another 1/8 mile to go. They might be fun and fast but rarely are they consistent enough to win a race.
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Right.
 
Let's talk about horsepower limits on small blocks. Just a guess, 450 for 318 (not impossible but hard to get there) How about 550-600 for 340/360 blocks. Cylinder wall thickness and lower end strength are both important. THe 6 pack blocks have stronger main webs correct? I see @pittsburghracer is making 600 horse out of a small block. Stock block stroker? Step up to a Ritter if you want stronger.
 
pittsburghracer said:
Not many need or want 4 digit horsepower and many that achieve it can’t handle it. Chassis wise and talent wise. Many many of these guys but these store bought powerhouse cars and wrap them around a pole shortly after.
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This reminds me of an incident that happened in the late 60’s of a guy home on military leave in the north woods of Wisconsin that while partying with 2 girls in his brand new Hemi charger went off the road and through the woods at speed. The biggest piece of the car they found was the trunk lid which was ripped in half and the only way to identify the 3 was that they knew they were missing.

And while the accident was viewed as a tragedy, there was a whole lot more sympathy for the 2 girls than the guy.

So whatever flavor of speed one chooses, when pushing the envelope it should be done in a respectful and civilized manner in a qualified venue with proper safety precautions and safety personnel.
 
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For me it's all in what you want and are looking to achieve. Its all about what makes the individual happy. Personally I'm not a racer I just like old muscle cars. I like classic original appearing cars. I don't care if it's a 90 hp slant six or a 426 hemi if it's original to the car I'm gonna like it. I'm not a fan of modern engines in old cars. Just my preference that is way I didn't do a magnum In my dart. If I was gonna a build a race car or something that I wanted max hp then a modern engine is most definitely the way to go.
 
Someday I will entertain a 3G Gemi build but I’ve got a lot of LA stuff to work through first. If I was dealing with a new project that didn’t have a desirable mill to start with AND I had no more LA parts I definitely would do a 3G.

In all honesty, my opinion only, is that the new transmissions should get more credit than the new engines. @4.7Light has himself a hot LA and a 8HP trans. You can build a solid 5-6-700 ho LA and tame it with an 8HP and make a true driver out of it.

My dream LA build would be based off a 340 resto block. They should make those again. Ritter is near but misses the mark for more people than it attracts. It’s pretty neat but where the Chevy and Ford boys get lucky is their aftermarket small blocks are mostly compatible with factory parts. Ritter has way too many proprietary parts.

Another part of a dream build would be cool on plug and 48* lifters. Reproduce W2’s and streamline the rocker gear production so it wouldn’t be as expensive.
 
abdywgn said:
426 HEMI and 427 SOHC...any others?
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Yeah. Halfway through the 62 model year, the 406 Fords were cross bolted and ALL of the 63 406 Fords were cross bolted. There were a few versions of the 390 that were as well. I don't know about any other Mopar engines other than the 426 Hemi.
 
See, I never even look at modern engines for high hp. What’s the blow apart rpm on a new hemi? 6500?

I love the modern fuel injection and drivability. If these hemi engines last 50years then I’m impressed. I know my 6.4 liter hemi in my personal work truck at 147k does not even go thru any oil. Runs like a beast. Well near oil change time I have to add 1/2 a quart. That’s about 5,500miles.
Sorry OP: I got side tracked.
Back to you…
 
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