Flip job!

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dusterny said:
Around here almost zero young guys in Mopars as it is out of there price range and they end up in a chebby.
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This is what I'm saying, the initial buy in is out of proportion to what these cars are worth. How much was this car when it was new, $2K? Break it down - Dart 270, a lower end model. No special equipment, just a 273 2 bbl, column 904, 7.25 but Ok, its got A/C. GOLD. Your basic old lady car. No performance pedigree, not even any high performance mods. How does the perceived value of this car increase so much? To me, it's unrealistic.

No, its not rusty and is in decent shape but how do you come up with anything over $7K? Seriously. You can play devils advocate all you want but again, this is the attitude of people these days that prevents guys with a little less from getting into lower level cars. Of course, all it takes is one fool but the problem has a ripple effect. Someone sees this ad and thinks "hey this guy thinks his old Dart is worth a million bucks, so is mine!" You get the idea.

During my recent search, I saw what looked like a pretty decent green Duster on Ebay. It was in nice shape but like the Dart, the car was basic transport. Car still had drum brakes, 7.25 etc. I think it had a mild 360 in it with manifolds. Guy was also asking $12K. I actually ended up talking to him trying to feel out where he was at. I probably would have given him $8k but he wouldn't even listen to anything under $11K. What are you getting for 11 grand? OK body that was painted, an interior that was dyed and throwaway running gear?

Maybe its me though. Not sure how everyone else views these cars when they are looking for one to buy, but I wanted a decent platform to modify. I will add that I was willing to pay a little extra for a nice car since I factor in the price of paint and body work. I'd rather not spend the money on cosmetics and it's usually cheaper to buy an original/done car than to fully restore a beater. So if it was in good shape, I considered it but also needed to consider the extra cost of building an engine and driveline. So now that original, lower level car I was looking for was turning into a $20K project. Also unrealistic.

In my opinion, it's warped. Fortunately, I was in a position to buy a good car recently but for someone who may be on a tighter budget, the lower level cars that used to be throwaways are now out of reach. Obviously if you can't afford it then you probably shouldn't be looking for cars beyond your means but guys are being priced out of the bottom cars.
 
i will never pay over 2500 for a beautiful rust free body regardless if it is a 6 cylinder car. period. end of story. i never have and i never will. be ready to overpay if you are not patient and wait for the right car to come along. right now , the deal of the day , is the 72 340 4 speed duster with the NOS sharks tooth grill and quarters ready to go for 5500. a flippers dream car. not only can i see this car hitting eghey for 8k , you will be able to pocket the grill.
 
I personally don't mind guys asking whatever they want for a car they're selling, regardless of what they paid for it and when. HOWEVER, I don't like to be lowballed by flippers who are tryig to beat you down on something so they can make the buck on it!!

Case in point.... I have my GTX for sale and am asking a fair price for what the car is. I get two different guys come look at it, both known to be flippers in my area. One is pretty honest and puts out a lowball offer and tells me he knows I won't take it, which I don't.

The other guy however comes out with this story of how his wife authorized him to spend only so much on a car, and he lowballs me, telling me that he needs the extra $$ left on his cap to make it into the car he wants it to be. He also tells me that he was a broker for a musclecar dealership in my area. I decline his offer and tell him I'm not in a hurry to sell it and am holding to my bottom line!! About a week later his Dad calls me and tells me that HE was actually the one who was interested in the car and just sent his son to look at it, and he wants to know what my real bottom line is!! I politely tell him that I'm not happy with the line of bullshit that his son laid on me, and my bottom line is exactly what I told his son it was, and if he was interested in it for that to come out and look at it himself, and bring the $$, not another bullshit lowball offer!!!

So, to clear up a couple of threads here...yes, I don't like to be lowballed by flippers looking to make a buck on my car, AND.... yes, I tell it like it is, whether it is behind the keyboard or face to face!!! Geof
 
If the guy can make $5K on the car, more power to him! This is America - or at least it was.. If he can sell it for $12K that means he made a damn good buy and I sure wouldn't fault him for it. If you made a good by for $7k and knew you could get $12K for it would you honestly sell it for $9k - just to be "fair"?????
 
The real problem with the pricing is that it is just not sustainable. The bubble burst a while back...
 
needsaresto said:
The real problem with the pricing is that it is just not sustainable. The bubble burst a while back...
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then no one will buy it.....if he wants to sell..he will need to lower his price..

he can ask what ever he wants..it is his car...you don't have to buy it...if someone thinks it is worth the price they will buy....

or should "SOMEONE" set the price on used cars and price.....oh..wait...it is called the MARKET........
 
I think some of you guys are missing the point here. I don't begrudge anyone for trying to make a buck, not in the least bit. However, this Dart is a flip, plain and simple and the reason it bothers me is because it's about money and/or perceived value and a guy trying to make a buck of something I am/we are passionate about. It's not about the car. It could be anything, really - car, boat, gun, guitar, motorcycle, whatever. I'm not in favor of jacking up the price of lower level cars, plain and simple.

We're all here because we love A bodies. And sure, everyone loves/needs money but let's face it - if you're buying a Gold Dart 270, it ain't about money. It's probably about a lack of money. It's frustrating to me to see a car like this priced through the roof. Though I don't know the guy, I'm betting deep down he could care less about Dodge Darts, he just wants to punch his $12.5K meal ticket. Indeed, more power to him if he can make it happen.

It just sucks for those of us who truly care about these things. I/we are not in the hobby to make a buck and are getting priced out of even the lower end cars by deals like this.

It's passion vs. business. Business always seems to win.
 
How much do you think he should sell the car for?
 
The real question is why do you care what he's selling it for. Are you gonna buy it, probably not. So, just move on with your life and let the seller do the same. It will sell for what it's worth plain and simple. This is the problem w\ people now a days. You worry about something that is absolutely none of your buisness period. I could buy a cheap dart, duster, demon everyday of the week for less then 2000.00, they are everywhere. I see them on Craigslist all the time. There are good deals everywhere but no one talks about them because you guys are to busy bitching about the expensive ones.

Get over it

One more thing, if a person isn't willing to do the research and buys the 1st thing they come across for some outragous price then it is thier own fault. I don't fell sorry for them. I run a garage and I have a guy that comes by all the time looking at cars i've restored. He always ask me about cars and what he should buy, and I always give him my opinion and tell him for 35.00 dollars I'll throw a car up on the hoist and look it over good. Well, he thinks I'm a rip because I want 35.00 bucks for my time so the other month he bought a 70 Nova. So, I had my Dart out front of the shop and he stopped in to check it out and was saying he wanted to know who painted it and how much. I told him the guys name and told him a good paint job now a days is somewhere around 5 to 10k dependig on body work. Once again he ranted about how that's a rip. The truth is this guys a asshole and the Nova he bought is a total piece of **** w/ more bondo in it then I've ever seen. Looks like someone hung the quarters on it right over top of the old ones and the truth is I think it's funny. For 35 bucks I could have saved him so much time and money. The point I'm making here is if your a Dumbass your gonna get treated like one and someone is gonna rip you off. But, if you listen, ask questions, and do your research some of us in this hobby will take care of you and help you along the way.
 
The asking price for a car has nothing to do with what you paid for it. I rarely sell cars, but when I do, I think it stupid if a buyer asks me what I paid for it. That is usually apples and oranges anyway if I made major repairs. A more relevant question would be for me to ask, "what alternate cars have you seen and what were their condition and prices?"

I doubt the ebay guy bought the car just to flip. If so, why sit on it for 4 months? The $12,500 is a "Buy It Now" price for somebody that really wants it. It is in FL now, so maybe worth $500 more than in TX. If visiting CA or AZ from the East and had more time than money, it would be smart to buy a reliable car there and drive it home. A rust-free car might be worth $2000 more in the East, and you would be doing the hobby a favor. Call it "flipping" or "smart". Free enterprise, trust the markets.
 
rmchrgr said:
I think some of you guys are missing the point here. I don't begrudge anyone for trying to make a buck, not in the least bit. However, this Dart is a flip, plain and simple and the reason it bothers me is because it's about money and/or perceived value and a guy trying to make a buck of something I am/we are passionate about. It's not about the car. It could be anything, really - car, boat, gun, guitar, motorcycle, whatever. I'm not in favor of jacking up the price of lower level cars, plain and simple.

We're all here because we love A bodies. And sure, everyone loves/needs money but let's face it - if you're buying a Gold Dart 270, it ain't about money. It's probably about a lack of money. It's frustrating to me to see a car like this priced through the roof. Though I don't know the guy, I'm betting deep down he could care less about Dodge Darts, he just wants to punch his $12.5K meal ticket. Indeed, more power to him if he can make it happen.

It just sucks for those of us who truly care about these things. I/we are not in the hobby to make a buck and are getting priced out of even the lower end cars by deals like this.

It's passion vs. business. Business always seems to win.
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With due respect, I don't think any point is being missed at all. First you say "I don't begrudge anyone for trying to make a buck, not in the least bit.", but then the rest of your argument goes against that statement. Like many have said, the car won't sell for more than it's worth. You see people asking stupid prices for everything common all the time on ebay for example, but tons of the same item actually sell for less during the same time while the overpriced one sits there. If very occasionally, one of the higher priced items sells because someone doesn't do their due diligence, that's their own fault.

I think it would be nice if everything, no matter what the interest/hobby, was priced low and not jacked up, for the hobbyist, but that's never been the case, ever, and never will be. Not even on this site, amongst those "passionate" not into it for the business. Some of the cars (even ones that people have owned a long time, so they're not "flipping"), are overpriced here too. Not worth worrying about too much. Just don't buy that car, buy one priced right, or wait until the price comes down.
 
I think what most people are missing is the point that, in the fine free countries of Canada and the USA we are all given the opportunity to run a free enterprise in order to make money. It was proven millenniums ago the barter system doesn't work for most people. At the end of the day, it's how you choose to spend what free enterprise may have allowed you to earn. Don't get me wrong, I am not centering anyone out, just saying we are allowed to prosper if we choose. There are alot of dynamics that come into pricing whatever is for sale and most prices are flexible, because that's how it's done. At the end of the day, people have a choice to purchase or not. That's freedom in a capitalistic market. I wouldn't give that away for anything.

The old saying goes, money makes money.
 
altered A-body said:
The real question is why do you care what he's selling it for. Are you gonna buy it, probably not. So, just move on with your life and let the seller do the same. It will sell for what it's worth plain and simple. This is the problem w\ people now a days. You worry about something that is absolutely none of your buisness period. I could buy a cheap dart, duster, demon everyday of the week for less then 2000.00, they are everywhere. I see them on Craigslist all the time. There are good deals everywhere but no one talks about them because you guys are to busy bitching about the expensive ones.

Get over it

One more thing, if a person isn't willing to do the research and buys the 1st thing they come across for some outragous price then it is thier own fault. I don't fell sorry for them. I run a garage and I have a guy that comes by all the time looking at cars i've restored. He always ask me about cars and what he should buy, and I always give him my opinion and tell him for 35.00 dollars I'll throw a car up on the hoist and look it over good. Well, he thinks I'm a rip because I want 35.00 bucks for my time so the other month he bought a 70 Nova. So, I had my Dart out front of the shop and he stopped in to check it out and was saying he wanted to know who painted it and how much. I told him the guys name and told him a good paint job now a days is somewhere around 5 to 10k dependig on body work. Once again he ranted about how that's a rip. The truth is this guys a asshole and the Nova he bought is a total piece of **** w/ more bondo in it then I've ever seen. Looks like someone hung the quarters on it right over top of the old ones and the truth is I think it's funny. For 35 bucks I could have saved him so much time and money. The point I'm making here is if your a Dumbass your gonna get treated like one and someone is gonna rip you off. But, if you listen, ask questions, and do your research some of us in this hobby will take care of you and help you along the way.
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Your post is right on the money. :cheers:

This is for everyone......

When it comes down to it, why do you give a ****?
Really?
Why is everyone whining about it?
If you don't want to buy it, then don't. It's none of your business what he buys it for and sells it for.
Just look for the deals that you can afford and forget about everyone else.
It's a lot less stressful.
I'll bet you wouldn't care too much if he took a loss on the car would you? Then you would call him a dumbass. Human nature?
Why is everyone so concerned about this topic all of a sudden?
There is a lot of jealousy involved here is my guess.
Be honest with yourself, if you could buy a car and make money on it, wouldn't you do it? Or parts for that matter?

If you are worried about flippers, then don't buy anything from a grocery store, car dealership, car parts store, paint supply store, gas station, etc.
They are the people really making money off of your sorry tired ***.

We all need a group hug now.
JMHO.
Tom.
 
Ok, you guys who are calling this a flip are not looking at this straight. The first ad was a classified with a fixed price. The second is ebay. At the time I read this, there are six bids, and price is only $4,550. Obviously there is time to go on the auction, and it will be bid up. We can't say anything until the bidding hits reserve. If the reserve is significantly over the $7k price (like $11k), then yes, seller is trying to make a profit. But the buy it now means nothing unless someone uses it.

Let's put the torches down, and wait until we see the reserve price. If it's near the original asking price, then I say seller is just trying to get his money back. If it's close to the buy it now, then yes, he wants to turn a profit. Right now, it's impossible to determine that. Not that it's even any of our business. I know for a fact that if I put my rust free California Duster up for $4,000, none of you would buy it. And I'd be loosing money on that.
 
blackbomber said:
Ok, you guys who are calling this a flip are not looking at this straight. The first ad was a classified with a fixed price. The second is ebay. At the time I read this, there are six bids, and price is only $4,550. Obviously there is time to go on the auction, and it will be bid up. We can't say anything until the bidding hits reserve. If the reserve is significantly over the $7k price (like $11k), then yes, seller is trying to make a profit. But the buy it now means nothing unless someone uses it.

Let's put the torches down, and wait until we see the reserve price. If it's near the original asking price, then I say seller is just trying to get his money back. If it's close to the buy it now, then yes, he wants to turn a profit. Right now, it's impossible to determine that. Not that it's even any of our business. I know for a fact that if I put my rust free California Duster up for $4,000, none of you would buy it. And I'd be loosing money on that.
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Exactly.

There's a lot of angst going on here for no reason at all. Again, no disrespect to the OP or others who think this should be or wish this was an affordable hobby. So do I. I think that's really a totally different topic altogether though.
 
72Dodge said:
Exactly.

There's a lot of angst going on here for no reason at all. Again, no disrespect to the OP or others who think this should be or wish this was an affordable hobby. So do I. I think that's really a totally different topic altogether though.
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You're right.
This IS an affordable hobby, the A-body thing.
Check out the prices of E bodies and think about it guys......
We've got it good. :cheers:
 
Live and let live.... My better half may spend $15 on a lamp and ask $200 and get it, but she may have $50 in gas just to find it :D
Another mans junk is another mans treasure :glasses7:
I have not looked at the car in question, just reading and made my post on this.
I was with Small Block when a person walked up to him and asked if he was ready to sell that truck he is speaking of as we was gassing up to go to Monster Mopar.
Good morning everyone :coffee2:
 
I couldn't help but reply to this. I am not mechanically inclined, nor am I that full of knowledge. If I can help a fellow enthusiast, I try. With that said - I came up with this.

I do not flip cars, do major restorations, and I am not made of money. But I am NOT in the hobby for the cars alone. I am in the hobby for ME and for the other PEOPLE who enjoy cars as I do. Everyone in the hobby has something they like and dislike about it. Some are in the hobby to wrench on cars. Some just drive em like they stole em. Yet others collect em and have a bunch of cars stored away. Some people sell/flip, while others deal in parts. My point is that the hobby is fun BECAUSE of the differences of all in it. Where is the fun in searching for that rare car or part if you could find it in 5 minutes and pay bargain basement prices. I feel terrible if I overpay, but awesome if I find a great deal. The car hobby is my HOBBY - my therapy from my every day life. For many, the car hobby IS NOT a hobby, it is their business/life.

Some people dislike flippers. Some dislike the fact that a car has been restored to better than new. Some just hate that a car has been restored at all because they have 1 less car to buy and work on at a price that is affordable to THEM. Most car guys/gals are great people - some are big tools. This is the same in all areas of life. It's the people that make the hobby not the price of the car. If you are only in it for the CARS, you should get a shirt that says "Save the Cars" and buy that Geo Metro down the street for pennies on the dollar cause it needs saving. There are many cars that can be saved for a reasonable price - unfortunately they are not all desirable.

I don't hold it against someone for getting a great deal or making money. I am jealous that I didn't get a deal or the opportunity to make money.

Years ago,I was at Carlisle searching for a car. I came across a car that I wanted but another buyer was already negotiating a purchase price. He bought the car right in front of me - I knew how much he paid. Later that same day, I found the car again. The new owner moved his new acquisition to his vendor spot and marked the car up $3000. I talked to him and told him that I would give him $1500 more than his purchase price - Nice little profit for his 1 hour of work. He declined. Was I mad - You bet - at him - sure - at myself - heck yea, cause I was just 5 minutes late and this greedy guy ... etc. Thats part of the hunt. Looking back, I should have paid the higher price - today that car would have been a steal. The low of lows leads to the high of highs when you find your prize - part, car etc.

I have always loved Mopars but It doesn't stop me from looking at other cars and talking to their owners. That is why I am in the hobby - For MY enjoyment. It just gives me something else to talk about with my car friends. Our differences make the world go round !!
 
I'm demoralized when I see stuff get flipped like this. This post was just lamenting the current state of price gouging. Everyone thinks their junk is worth 60-90% more than it really is, thus artificially pricing things out of reach for the common buyer. Am I naive? Maybe.

I've sold 5 cars over the last 4 years and took a hit on all of them. I did in fact set initial pricing at the higher end (but not an unreasonable 60-90% higher). Accordingly, there were only lowball offers and/or little to no interest. I held on to some of the cars for over a year. Eventually I relented and sold all at a loss. That's obviously how it works.

Like has been said before, this used to be a somewhat cheaper hobby but now you need to take a second mortgage out to enjoy it. Again, my belief is that the initial buy in for a clean but lower level car is out of proportion to what the cars are actually worth.

But in the end, worth is determined by someone who pays too much, not the seller fishing for a profit.
 
The price of a car is nothing compared to what they are flipping on Wall St. with the cost of making a gallon of gas and what it profits at.A seller can only "ASK" a price but the clowns on Wall St. are telling you what your gonna pay.
Well, I guess the government and gas stations have just as much right to make a buck as the flippers do right ?
 
people can and will flip all they want. the mopar hobby has been inundated with people buying and selling these cars trying to make bank because of the emphasis on what some of the highly optioned and big motor cars are worth to collectors. this has been carried over to the slant 4 door cars and any thing with a pentastar on it. people are watching what people are paying for 6 pack B and E bodies, and all of the sudden they believe they can put a down payment on their first home by throwing their ragged out 318 71 duster that they just payed 4000 on Eghey for 8000 because it is a mopar . have at it, run the prices through the roof, the people paying through the *** for these cars are in for a reality check when they find that their 75 valiant 4 door 318 car will never resell for the 6000+ they paid for it. the market will always weed out the overinflated prices on these cars. from what im seeing, the money is in the parts and not the cars themselves. and this is all across the board, every type of old american made classic car is being flipped because there is always someone out there with deeper pockets and wants it more than you do or can afford. as long as there are people willing to pay the price, there is always a buck to be made. thats fine and dandy, its just going to take me a little longer to find my parts for a good deal, but the deals are out there. websites like FABO make it possible to get good deals, of which i have, and my thanks go out to all of you who have helped me out, and you know who you are. as long as people are paying 5000 for rusty beat up V8 dusters, then i know my 99% rust free duster is worth 8000 LOL
 
It’s a double edge sword...you need the cars to be of some reasonable value to make them worth keeping, driving and restoring.​


In my opinion the average Barrett-Jackson buyer (or other "fat cat") who has piles of money to spend without regard to the true value of those cars does more damage to the hobby than the average flipper. A flipper sees the car as under valued and an opportunity to make a buck. Maybe they fix the car up a bit or maybe they don’t. I don't think too many flippers are getting rich off their flips and I don't think they are driving prices up any higher than the average guy trying to sell their cars because they want to or need to.​


The flippers I hate are the ones who buy a car one day...and flip it literally the next day. I had that happen on a Dart convertible that I couldn’t see until the weekend...it got sold for $14K...and the next week it was back on Craigslist for $10K more.​


Prices are down for the most part right now due to the economy. And 10-20-30 years from now when the people who over paid for their classic are dead or in nursing homes...prices will be down again. I don't see kids today clammering for classics and muscle cars...or bring able to afford the crazy prices​


The rich will always have the advantage in every way over the poor...just a fact of modern life....get used to it.
 
Asking $25k for my $2500.00 Dart.
Guess that will really piss you off.
 
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