Front End Problems

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67DART340

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My 67 Dart was modified before I bought it. The front end steering is unstable, wandering all over the road, with the front end rising and dropping. The car was originally a 6 cylinder car. It now has a 340 motor. It also now has 4 on 4.5" studded brakes on all fours with 11" discs in the front and 10" drums in the back on an 8 3/4 rear. I just changed the torsion bars to .920". Something is seriously wrong. The adjuster arms between the lower control arms were rubbing on the inside of the frame. My guess is the K frame was changed to the small block type. I'm not sure what steering knuckles or other parts were swapped in for the disc brake conversion. Any help with what parts can be recognized would be greatful. There are 5 pics. Thanks.

67DART1A.JPG


67DART2A.JPG


67DART3A.jpg


67DART4A.jpg


67DART5A.JPG
 
It could just need a front end rebuild. When was the last time that was done? You can get a kit from just suspension.
 
I guess I can't see what you are talking about....

What is it like with the suspension loaded?

Also... I switched from SBP to LBP on my 68 and my calipers are mounted to the front, I see yours are on the rear....
 
I see no bump stops what is up with that.When you say all over the place is it when your braking.maybe you still have the old proporting valve for drum brakes ther is a different one for discs.I am however not sure how to tell the diff.Ps my front is out of wack too.
 
""The adjuster arms between the lower control arms were rubbing on the inside of the frame.''"
That has me confused. The problem could be lost motion or backlash in the steering gear or box coupling.
The front brakes are 73 and up disc brakes. The lower arms are the earlier , probably originals , with the swaybar tab being where it is. Sway bar gone.
Its possible the lower arm bushing and ball joints have never been changed.
 
You need to check the condition of all bushings/ball joints/etc. and check the alignment.
 
Does anyone know if there is a good online article to help you get it aligned? with pics? lol
 
From the pictures you posted, it looks like the upper ball joint is alot closer to the front of the car than the lower ball joint is. If I'm seeing this right and that is indeed the case, your caster is extremely negative which can create handling problems.

Can you get your car to an alignment shop?
 
Get the car to a reputable front end shop for an alignment and they should be able to point out the parts that are in need of replacement. You don`t necessarily have to get them to replace the parts, you can do most everything yourself.
 
Is there any possibility that the spindles are reversed? I dont know if the lower ball joints can be bolted up only one way or not. All of the 73 up disks have the caliper in the front of the axle. How is it that the calipers on this car are behind the axle? Were they made both ways?
 
the caliper probably should be at the front but they often get installed to the rear when theres a swaybar interfearance. There isn't any angle built into the spindle so it dont or wouldn't make a difference in alignment. Only the upper arms on wrong sides would make as much difference as the pictures suggest but notice the bump stops. The upper arms are on correct sides. The odd caster angle suggested by the pics must surely be lower ball joints worn completely out.
 
I wouldn't be satisfied unless I gave it a good once over. Who knows what previous owners have done to the car.

The front strut bushing could be installed improperly, creating the negative caster, could be in the steering box or coupler.....

You need to isolate these parts one at at time.

We'll help you through it.
 
if possible , could you get a close up of the upper control arm bushings,
and cams? front/rear front, front/rear rear?
 
For what its worth... I just noticed those sway bar tabs have been moved.
Its not a big deal in itself since they aren't being used, just makes me wonder why they were moved and what else might have been altered. Good luck
 
the spindle will work on either side of the car so that isn't the problem. the first thing i would say is to get it up on an alignment rack and go from there. that is a weird sway bar tab on those control arms.
 
is it possible that the upper control arms are reversed from one side to the other another post noticed that extreme neg caster from the pics.
just my .02 cents
 
Stock upper arms are built with 0 degrees positive caster (not good).
Buy a set of aftermarket arms from Just Suspensions or Magmun Racing
with plenty of positive caster built in and your problem is solved.
 
the uppers look ok to me. if i remember correctly if they were on the wrong side that they wouldn't be anywhere close to fitting.



here is the front end of jamie's car when we did her front end. the calibers are in front of the wheel. not that it really matters.


frontend024.jpg
 
And the negitive caster is suggested by this photo as well. It's somewhat amplified by the difference between spindle angle and shock angle in viewing but it's really not so exteme. Rear wheel drive cars require some negitive caster.


abodyjoe said:
the uppers look ok to me. if i remember correctly if they were on the wrong side that they wouldn't be anywhere close to fitting.



here is the front end of jamie's car when we did her front end. the calibers are in front of the wheel. not that it really matters.


frontend024.jpg
Click to expand...
 
Burntorange70, 1968FormulaS340, Snake, RedFish, Jim Lusk, slantsixness, 6pk2goDemon, Sterling, Longgone, 684mulas, NiceFishEh, mech1nxh, abodyjoe, rsherw3....

Thanks for the replys and the pictures. The first thing I noticed was the brake pads were on the back side of the rotor, and the steering knucle wasn't like any that I had seen on my Road Runners. I was told the front discs were from a Barracuda, that might explain the extensions on the lower control arm for a sway bar, but the K frame doesn't have any attachments ( the Road Runner has the sway bar go through the bottom of the K frame). I measured the torsion bar and it was 6 cylinder bar at around .820". At this point it's possible many things are wrong like maybe a C body steering knuckle (longer than A or B body). So, all your advise and pictures will help me unravel the mystery parts. Keep sending your thoughts. Thanks and have a great day.
 
Burntorange70, 1968FormulaS340, Snake, RedFish, Jim Lusk, slantsixness, 6pk2goDemon, Sterling, Longgone, 684mulas, NiceFishEh, mech1nxh, abodyjoe, rsherw3, Orv Grote...

One of my problems is I have to get up to speed on the front end parts, what they look like and how they work. The other larger problem is that I may have a mix of several parts from who knows where and possibly the wrong parts mixed in the causing the problems. Last Saturday I spent 2 and a half hours at a local junk yard, that has older cars in it to get up to speed and look for parts. I 've always enjoyed that. I did find a 1974 Dodge Dart 318 with power disc brakes, as a donor car for some parts, but the car was pretty beat and parts weathered. And I did find a mid 60s Barracuda with the same lower control arm as mine, with the sway bar attached to the outer control arm as in my picture. I did find several other disc brake donor cars, but they were already stripped of their control arms, knuckles, and disc brakes. What I know about my car so far is the brakes are at least 11", 5 on 4.5" studs, they are rear mounted rather than front, and they are single piston type. The knuckles look similiar to 68-70 B body, but not like my 71 Road Runner drum brake type. I plan to replace all the ball joints, upper control arm bumpers, and shocks, as soon as I can confirm that I have all the right parts. I'm also working on a 8-3/4 posi 741 chunk 3.91 rear and wiring problems. Let me know if you recognize anything. Thanks guys....:read2:
 
You don't want negative caster on ANY vehicle with radials. You really don't want it at all. The factory specs were for bias ply tires. Anything running radials needs as much positive caster as you can set the car up with.
 
In order to get the floating caliper disk brake on the 67, the upper control arm had to be swapped out for one that would accomodate the larger ball joint required by the spindle. Once this swap is done, either a 73 & > disk brake spindle or a 68-70 B-body disk brake spindle can be used. The problem with the B-body spindle is that it is taller than the A-body one. This throws off the suspension geometry for street use but might be ok on a car that puts on mileage a ¼ mile at a time.

The spindles can be reversed with no real problem. Reversing the spindle makes sense when a floating caliper disk brake is being installed on a pre-73 K-frame and equipped with an anti-sway bar. The caliper hits the sway bar when mounted in the forward position. The newer K-frame uses a different sway bar design that avoids this problem.

When I converted the Demon to BBP disk brakes, I changed the K-frame, suspension and brake components in one shot froom a 75 model. The 74 you mention would be a good donor. (I also installed a cop car steering box and the engine on the K-frame. Installed everything from the bottom.) Good luck.
 
67DART340 said:
.
And I did find a mid 60s Barracuda with the same lower control arm as mine, with the sway bar attached to the outer control arm as in my picture.Thanks guys....:read2:
Click to expand...

OK you want to go back and get that if you can get a good price. Get those lower arms too. There's no doubt in my mind that your sway bar tabs have been moved inboard. One of the tabs uprights is curved to go around the rivet there. I'd bet someone moved them on the workbench then realized the stut rod conflict. Anyway...
That sway bar that goes around the K can be used with either type K.
The thru-the-K bar wont go though the early solid K ( duh ).
The only faults with the early sway bar are, late model caliper clearance, and its forward hangers tend to break. The forward hangers for the Addco bar is a well designed substtute.
Ok I'll add that it is a skinny little bar . It's better than no sway bar.
 
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