Going back to Chrysler ignition

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DusterDaddy

DusterDaddy

sledgehammer mechanic
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Well I have decided to take the MSD box out of the car and try running an orange ignition box without the dual ballast resistor. It was suggest by a few guys on this forum to run a 12 volt 300 ohm coil. I have ignition one and ignition tied together and I have a constant 12 V when the key is either on start or run. Everything is wired correctly. The coil is wired correctly and the car barely will run until I just nurse it along on the throttle to get the RPMs up and then it seems to run better. I did not touch the timing at all, but I’m thinking that the MSD box with the multiple sparks cause the timing to be different. I think some of the mechanical timing is comes in. So I need to start over with timing, which is not my favorite thing to do…..

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The only 300 ohm coils I've seen in ignition context have been magnetic pick-up coils. I'm not sure what ignition coil you are running, but to run it without a ballast resistor is likely to mean you are either overheating it or have a coil with so much internal current limiting that it won't build up much of a spark. If you're using a standard Mopar box, you will need a ballast resistor and a coil designed for one. Otherwise, as the Dread Pirate Roberts put it, "Get used to disappointment."

And it is not uncommon for different ignition boxes to have slightly different timing, so I would get out the timing light once you have the right coil.
 
That orange brain box may be a designed for the higher rpm racing applications that won't run good at low rpm.

Need to have the matched mopar brain box, matching ballast resistor (hooked up properly 12 v in 7 v out to coil) and matching coil. All are specific to the way you are going to use your car.

3 variables, 3 x 3 = 9

9 ways to get it wrong, 1 way to get it right.


* * * * *
 
Beautiful engine bay! So many variables with ign systems. Most ign problems i read are based on aftermarket ign's.
Good luck, electrical can be the most frustrating to finger out.
Car deserves to be driven .
You still plan on using a ballast?
Chk distributor closely. I had " issues" with a supposed "rebuilt" one. Mine was obviously put together in a drunken stupor... :BangHead:
DusterDaddy said:
Well I have decided to take the MSD box out of the car and try running an orange ignition box without the dual ballast resistor. It was suggest by a few guys on this forum to run a 12 volt 300 ohm coil. I have ignition one and ignition tied together and I have a constant 12 V when the key is either on start or run. Everything is wired correctly. The coil is wired correctly and the car barely will run until I just nurse it along on the throttle to get the RPMs up and then it seems to run better. I did not touch the timing at all, but I’m thinking that the MSD box with the multiple sparks cause the timing to be different. I think some of the mechanical timing is comes in. So I need to start over with timing, which is not my favorite thing to do…..

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I last ran an MSD on a van with a 318... Didn't notice much difference in how it ran until I went to sell the van and wanted to keep my MSD .. noticed more difference when I took it off than when I put it on
 
DusterDaddy said:
Well I have decided to take the MSD box out of the car and try running an orange ignition box without the dual ballast resistor. It was suggest by a few guys on this forum to run a 12 volt 300 ohm coil. I have ignition one and ignition tied together and I have a constant 12 V when the key is either on start or run. Everything is wired correctly. The coil is wired correctly and the car barely will run until I just nurse it along on the throttle to get the RPMs up and then it seems to run better. I did not touch the timing at all, but I’m thinking that the MSD box with the multiple sparks cause the timing to be different. I think some of the mechanical timing is comes in. So I need to start over with timing, which is not my favorite thing to do…..
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I pulled my MSD box 20 years ago and went back to my tried and true Chrome Box with the standard conversion layout. Never had an ignition problem since.
 
I think the OP meant a 3 ohm coil instead of 300. Some folks think that is a good idea since the DC resistance seems to add up and now all the power is going into the coil. The answer is ……it depends……

Keep in mind that the ballast resistor resistance is relatively fixed during ignition operation and the coil changes resistance based on current and frequency. This can be a significant change. So unless you are smart enough to figure this out (not me) and have the test equipment to validate it, changing things is a crapshoot.
 
I am in the middle of a no start when cold issue on my 64. It was converted over to Mopar electronic. I am leaning towards the starter draw may be excessive enough to draw the battery voltage below the minimum for the ECU. (around 10.5v) I have a few components to try before I go back to points (and may be a Pertronix) or replace the starter. LOL
 
I never went to msd , and seen so many members doing it, I like the idea that I can Cary a spare box, ballist and coil way easier the a spare msd, cost for very little gain thew my set up.
 
toolmanmike said:
I am in the middle of a no start when cold issue on my 64. It was converted over to Mopar electronic. I am leaning towards the starter draw may be excessive enough to draw the battery voltage below the minimum for the ECU. (around 10.5v) I have a few components to try before I go back to points (and may be a Pertronix) or replace the starter. LOL
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My first test would be the pertronix if voltage is indeed your problem, plus it's a good back up from what I have seen and experienced. Last time I hooked one up it sure woke up my older brothers 67 Mercury Calenta. 289, looking a hole lot like the 67 Fairlane ( RIP brother Ken)
 
memike said:
My first test would be the pertronix if voltage is indeed your problem, plus it's a good back up from what I have seen and experienced. Last time I hooked one up it sure woke up my older brothers 67 Mercury Calenta. 289, looking a hole lot like the 67 Fairlane ( RIP brother Ken)
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I can't test the ECU but I have a good one coming from Hoppy. All the voltages and resistances look good except the cranking voltage. I wish I had a Sun Vat 40 so I could do an amp draw on that starter. A guy on B bodies changed to a new style Nippon Denso starter and it cured his problem. It spun it over faster but with less voltage loss.
 
memike said:
My first test would be the pertronix if voltage is indeed your problem, plus it's a good back up from what I have seen and experienced. Last time I hooked one up it sure woke up my older brothers 67 Mercury Calenta. 289, looking a hole lot like the 67 Fairlane ( RIP brother Ken)
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The Pertronix is so simple. Basically a magnetic switch. Just a pulse to trigger the coil. It's an electronic replacement for the points. That's it. No amplifier, no multi-spark. Nothing extra that you don't need. And now days with the poor quality parts, the points aren't the issue. It's the condensers that are junk.
 
toolmanmike said:
I can't test the ECU but I have a good one coming from Hoppy. All the voltages and resistances look good except the cranking voltage. I wish I had a Sun Vat 40 so I could do an amp draw on that starter. A guy on B bodies changed to a new style Nippon Denso starter and it cured his problem. It spun it over faster but with less voltage loss.
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I am still running the starter from a Dakota I bought for 40 bucks , it's first 7 to 8 years on my 170 slant, now on my 360, I will never go back to the large slow voltage dragging starter
 
memike said:
I am still running the starter from a Dakota I bought for 40 bucks , it's first 7 to 8 years on my 170 slant, now on my 360, I will never go back to the large slow voltage dragging starter
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I might have to switch.
 
Factory electronic distributor so you can set the timing up correctly. HEI control box and a HEI coil. One ignition wire and your done. Best thing I ever did. Some will ***** that it's a GM part. So, it works great. I like to drive my cars.
 
toolmanmike said:
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ This is true.
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I don't know why everyone needs all that fancy aftermarket stuff. I mean, it ran OEM? All of a sudden it doesn't because someone made something else?

All I did was the ballast delete when I went with a newer 12v coil

Still running $3 points, $3 condenser, a vacuum advance that does me nothing because i don't cruise or idle, and the only problem is it needs an oil change every so often, on a distributor that's original from late 1960s.

No other reason and don't make reasons to keep spending time standing next to it vs sitting in it.
 
Beyond what the others have pointed out as issues running this configuration. Is the ignition box chassis (paint removed to expose metal) grounded really well? What is you static timing? It sounds like as you accelerate the distributor is advancing and getting to a place the motor begins to like. How good are your engine grounds? Did you remove the distributor?

Why did you remove the MSD? Was there an issue with it?

Is the engine built? If so, what are the details?

The more info we have the better.
 
Hellrats said:
Factory electronic distributor so you can set the timing up correctly. HEI control box and a HEI coil. One ignition wire and your done. Best thing I ever did. Some will ***** that it's a GM part. So, it works great. I like to drive my cars.
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@halifaxhops has some slick GM module mounts made up to convert slant 6 distributors. I wonder how close they are to working on the standard V8 distributors, point or electronic style? [FOR SALE] - Slant six HEI plates
 
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