H or X CROSSOVER?

-

CFD244

"THE NEW OLDSMOBILES ARE IN EARLY THIS YEAR"
FABO Gold Member
Joined
Sep 7, 2017
Messages
4,658
Reaction score
6,629
Location
Northern Ontario, Canada
Hi Folks

Running a 340 auto with an XE262 cam, 1969 HP manifolds and a factory TQ on a 1971 Demon (3.23 gears). Looking to purchase a 2 1/2 TTI exhaust and see that there is an X option and an H option for crossovers. I am looking for something with no drone on the highway, and not obnoxiously loud. This is a cruiser with 2 60 year olds taking a Sunday drive. What differences would I hear between the two. @VOETOM your input would be appreciated.

Thanks FABO
 
X pipe should be quieter, though the mufflers you choose are worth something here as well. If you use the turndowns instead of extending the tips past the bumper, it will drone a lot more.

My Duster has the 2.5" TTI x-pipe system and the Dynomax Ultra-Flos. I would imagine the super turbos are slightly quieter, though they aren't really THAT loud.

Flowmasters drone a lot.
 
Hi Folks

Running a 340 auto with an XE262 cam, 1969 HP manifolds and a factory TQ on a 1971 Demon (3.23 gears). Looking to purchase a 2 1/2 TTI exhaust and see that there is an X option and an H option for crossovers. I am looking for something with no drone on the highway, and not obnoxiously loud. This is a cruiser with 2 60 year olds taking a Sunday drive. What differences would I hear between the two. @VOETOM your input would be appreciated.

Thanks FABO
Put "x or h pipe" in the search function. I saw 17 pages of posts about the subject. You will be suprised at how much you will learn while searching for your answer.
 
Agreed Toolmanmike,

Here' s a great write up I found from Motortrend....




X vs. H
Although X- and H-pipes perform extremely well for a minimal investment in time and money, both offer unique properties that make one more suitable than the other depending on the application. "The two biggest differences between an X- and an H-pipe are sound and power. Generally, the X-pipe will deliver a more high-pitched exhaust note, making a car sound more exotic, whereas an H-pipe gives a deeper tone with more of a traditional hot rod sound," says George Rumore of Stainless Works. "As for the difference in power gain between the two, it is very minimal. The X-pipe will usually make anywhere from two to four more horsepower than an H-pipe. The slight horsepower difference comes from the way the X-pipe creates a venturi effect, which helps pull the exhaust gases out of the cylinder faster. Overall, the main difference is sound rather than performance, meaning there are no pros or cons. It's simply a matter of personal preference."
In addition to differences in sound and horsepower, both X- and H-pipes affect different parts of the powerband as well. According to PerTronix's Don Lindfors, the basic configuration of both styles of crossovers lend a clue as to why this is the case. "An H-pipe tends to make more of a difference at lower rpm, while-X pipes will increase power more at higher rpm. As you can imagine, just by looking at each configuration, in the H-pipe the exhaust has to make a sharp 90-degree turn, while the X-pipe offers a smoother transition," he says. "The X-pipe creates much more of a scavenging effect. That said, it is important to prevent the X-pipe from necking down too small or flow can be hampered. Both an X- and an H-pipe will smooth out the separated sound of the cylinders, while an X-pipe tends to blend all eight cylinders together more."

For all-out power, X-pipes seem to be the winner, but H-pipes boast several advantages as well. "H-pipes typically offer increased backpressure compared to an X-pipe, which nets an increase in low-end torque. They are also more tunable because they offer more options in terms of the length of the crossover, the diameter of the tube, and the size and location of the transfer hole," Blane Burnett explains. "As a simpler design that takes up less space, H-pipes have more options as to where on the exhaust system the crossover section can be placed. While performance is a large consideration when designing an exhaust system, vehicle packaging is also a huge factor. Depending on the application, an X- or an H-pipe might suit the chassis better, but an H-pipe certainly offers more options as to where it can be placed."
 
I've never liked a cross over at all. IMO, it removes some of the "crispness" of the exhaust note. I'd love to see a truly unbiased and unsponsored test showing the real power gains.
 
I ran a 3 inch TTi x pipe system on my 70 Dart with Dynomax super turbo mufflers and TTi's stainless tips. I found that it gave a really nice rumble during "normal" driving, no drone, and under full throttle much more noticeable growl. My wife never complained about the noise, my lead foot on the other hand................
 
Put "x or h pipe" in the search function. I saw 17 pages of posts about the subject. You will be suprised at how much you will learn while searching for your answer.
I agree. I read a few of those pages and see that everyone has their preference (watched the videos too). I asked because I included my specific build parameters, and desired performance goals. I was hoping someone had the same preferences with real world experience with the differences.....I'm not lazy :)
 
CFD, what mufflers you running and what sort of hangers and tips?
Thanks for chiming in Tom. I am hoping to run the XLERATOR, or the Borla Pro xs depending on availability here in Northern Ontario. As far as tips go, I was just going to run straight pipes without the OEM tips (too costly for good ones, and the cheap ones get rusty) I was going to see what TTI sends as far as clamps and hangers goes.
 
I noticed drone was reduced when I went from separate duels to an X-pipe. Now, it didn't go away, it moved in RPM when it came on and went, about a 300 RPM shift and became about 20% quieter.

Mufflers alone will not stop or cure resonance, for that you need a properly sized resonator(s) and/or Helmholtz chambers.

2nd for Borla Pro XS for mufflers.
 
I ran a 3 inch TTi x pipe system on my 70 Dart with Dynomax super turbo mufflers and TTi's stainless tips. I found that it gave a really nice rumble during "normal" driving, no drone, and under full throttle much more noticeable growl. My wife never complained about the noise, my lead foot on the other hand................
I have the same results with my 3" TTI X pipe kit using Dynomax Ultra Flow mufflers with stainless tips. 550hp and no drone.
 
Here' s a great write up I found from Motortrend....

X vs. H
"The X-pipe creates much more of a scavenging effect. That said, it is important to prevent the X-pipe from necking down too small or flow can be hampered. "
It's not clear to me that the case on this issue has ever been based on "flow" by these options. I always felt that it was more due to tuning thru "Helmholtz resonance" benefits.
I do fully accept that the effect can be altered by tubing diameter, but flow is not the primary concern needed to achieve desired "Helmholtz resonance" benefits..
I also have a hard time comprehending how much flow takes place in high-speed exhaust thru a typical H pipe solution.

This is an engine masters challenge.
 
When we tested crossovers, what we saw can't confirm or deny any scavenging, but we did see the engine (at the header collector) sensed less back pressure with the correct Dr. Gas X as opposed to the correctly fabricated H. We noted that with this effect, you could run quiet, (slightly more restrictive) mufflers with the X and the engine saw it the same as it did the older, higher flowing ones with the H.

The correctly fabricated X ALLOWS THE ENGINE TO SEE BOTH SIDES OF THE EXHAUST AT ALL TIMES. The incorrectly fabricated ones do not.

The biggest most important thing in all of this is that all Xs are not the same
. In fact, some are worse than nothing at all. Dr. Gas did huge amounts of testing before 1995 to find what worked at NASCAR. We started with his test and components and found similar results on drag cars.

All the other Xs are not the same and so to be able to generally say one is better than the other is really tough. We know Dr. Gas crossovers worked, they made the tone change where it sounded quieter out the rear, we never saw more drone, and the car ran quicker and slightly faster. In almost every single case we used it, the same things occured.

Other testers, like we were and did, can only base their test results on the parts they are testing since all of the X crossovers and H crossovers are different. We worked with Dr. Gas and his did what they were advertised to do. And they sound cool as heck on all sorts of cars!
 
Last edited:
Some of these will not work as well as others. I do know one is close to what the original Dr. Gas units were.

shopping-2.jpeg


shopping-3.jpeg


shopping-5.jpeg


shopping-6.jpeg


shopping.jpeg


shopping-7.jpeg
 
Some of these will not work as well as others. I do know one is close to what the original Dr. Gas units were.

View attachment 1716199156

View attachment 1716199157

View attachment 1716199158

View attachment 1716199159

View attachment 1716199160

View attachment 1716199161
The original early X's were an x between two individual straight back exhaust pipes. Pictured above is likely a better version that both exhausts share at one point a common path. I assume that is an improvement and reduces any likely Helmholtz resonance effects an H pipe might provide and promotes improved flow due to less back pressure in exhaust pressure spikes, as my guess.
 
Hi Folks

Running a 340 auto with an XE262 cam, 1969 HP manifolds and a factory TQ on a 1971 Demon (3.23 gears). Looking to purchase a 2 1/2 TTI exhaust and see that there is an X option and an H option for crossovers. I am looking for something with no drone on the highway, and not obnoxiously loud. This is a cruiser with 2 60 year olds taking a Sunday drive. What differences would I hear between the two. @VOETOM your input would be appreciated.

Thanks FABO
IMO, since I have both systems in place on two cars, it’s more about sound since the difference in HP is so little it’s silly.

The “H” pipe has more of that traditional muscle car sound while the “X” pipe will smooth out the exhaust pulses mellowing the normal idle pulses your used to hearing. On the mid & top end, the higher up the rpm scale you go, the sound changes into a screeching banshee sounding like it’s a thousand rpm higher.

Ya wanna scare the kids in an awesome sounding high reving car, install the X pipe.
The traditional muscle car sounding like a beast? Use the H pipe.

Muffler wise, this is your call. Turbo mufflers normally have the most quite sound, longer the muffler, the more quite it will be.
Dynomax mufflers in an extended case length are pretty quiet. There’s also the Walker SoundXF mufflers that are close to stock sounding.
 
TTI headers, TTI 2 1/2 inch H pipe, Ultra Flo mufflers, TTI 2 1/2 inch tail pipes with tips, no drone. Ultra Flo on my car not loud at all unless I go wide open throttle and even then the roar from carb sucking in air is much much louder then the exhaust.

Dynomax mufflers that are offset in and center out have a botched up flow when exhaust crosses over the center outlet internal to the muffler. Cut one apart and you'll see. Dynomax offset in/offset out have a much nicer internal path for exhaust to travel.

I don't care for that exotic car sound of an X pipe but that is a subjective opinion because other people love X pipe sound.
 
I ran the dr gas x pipe on two different big blocks for over 20 years. Loved it. Unfortunately it was on my Polara when I sold it. I wish they were still in business.
When I did my Duster I used a Magnaflow tru x and the Borla Pro XS mufflers. I have to say it is fairly quiet until you hammer it.I have 2" TTi headers with 3" pipe through the x pipe then reduces to 2.5 with the Flowmaster tapered reducers and 2.5 out the back.
 
Following Troy, I will be running same manifolds you are . So I'll have to upgrade the exhaust system. Maybe do a summit purchase together? I have an exhaust guy, he's flexible whether his "stuff" or store bought.
 
Following Troy, I will be running same manifolds you are . So I'll have to upgrade the exhaust system. Maybe do a summit purchase together? I have an exhaust guy, he's flexible whether his "stuff" or store bought.
Thanks Steve

I don't think Summit carries the TTI kits. I am trying to figure out X vs H so I can get a price from Nigel. Definitely a bulk purchase might save us some dough!
 
TTI headers, TTI 2 1/2 inch H pipe, Ultra Flo mufflers, TTI 2 1/2 inch tail pipes with tips, no drone. Ultra Flo on my car not loud at all unless I go wide open throttle and even then the roar from carb sucking in air is much much louder then the exhaust.

Dynomax mufflers that are offset in and center out have a botched up flow when exhaust crosses over the center outlet internal to the muffler. Cut one apart and you'll see. Dynomax offset in/offset out have a much nicer internal path for exhaust to travel.

I don't care for that exotic car sound of an X pipe but that is a subjective opinion because other people love X pipe sound.
340S, When we did our testing it was on GM style offset offset. I was running the Dynomax 17748, which are offset center, on my 69 340 S fastback. A recent test with similar "turbo-stye with flow director" mufflers and comparing the offset offset to offset center showed it only had about a 1 to 2% loss when it has that pipe in the flow path. I guess it makes sense since air likes to go aorund round objects and since the muffler was 4.25" thick and the pipe was only 2.5" OD, it was not as much flow restriction as I would have thought. So, I no longer worry about the 17748 to 17749 and 17733 and 17334 Dynomax SuperTurbo differences.
 
-
Back
Top