Dan the man
Well-Known Member
Just a question. Is there shorty or midlength headers available for the A body mopar with a small block?
Headers for a A body
- Thread starter Dan the man
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remytherat
Well-Known Member
Check out the tti website. They sell everything you would need, if you're willing to give up your left kidney for it
You don’t want them.
Dan the man
Well-Known Member
I don't mean to be disrespectful but what's the downside of them? The car I'm trying to go look at ( weather is the problem ). Has headers on it but they have one of the tubes that's close to number 5 &7 spark plug. Doug's headers don't do that but I really don't want to pay $900 for a set of headers, I think they are ceramic coated too
remytherat
Well-Known Member
The scavenging tunes for much higher rpm, so you miss out on some low-mid range torque. Still an improvement in flow over manifolds, but I wouldn't take off long tubes for it.
Header manifold shootout on 300 hp 5.9l.
https://www.motortrend.com/how-to/mopp-0307-installing-exhaust-headers-into-300hp-crate-engine/
https://www.motortrend.com/how-to/mopp-0307-installing-exhaust-headers-into-300hp-crate-engine/
Dan the man
Well-Known Member
I'm been reading on how to improve the volumetric efficiency. Don't good heads help along with a good exhaust system, what about the intake manifold and air cleaner housing. I know that the car isn't home yet so I thought I would take this time to learn how to improve its overall performance. Improving the volumetric efficiency is a good idea even if it runs good? The first thing to do is to make sure it's safe to drive. Thanks everyone for your help
The TTI shorties cost just as much as the Doug's D453 with similar coatings, and that's before you buy the head pipes you'll need to connect the shorties to the rest of the exhaust system. So, you need the TTI shorties at $849 for the ceramic coated version, PLUS the head tubes at another $136. And TTI doesn't do free shipping, so, you're well above the cost for a set of ceramic coated Doug's from say Summit, which does free shipping. Shipping to Missouri will be $80 from TTI.
So, once you've bought the TTI shorties, the needed head pipes, and shipped them, you'll be north of $1k into the shorties.
They're also only slightly easier to install than long tubes, and just like the long tubes may require a dimple or a modification here and there to clear stuff. I found they really didn't fit much better than the Doug's long tubes, just differently.
Also, at least on the set of TTI shorties I have, the ceramic coating and construction on the Dougs is better. Wasn't super impressed with the TTI shorties. In fact, I took them off and put the Dougs back on my car. I was going to the TTI shorties to gain some ground clearance, but even in that department they're less than 3/8" better for ground clearance.
Here's my write up on the install/removal of the TTI shorties I bought (with head tubes, because they're necessary).
My "new" '74 Duster- or why I need a project like a hole in the head
And you're still figuring out what parts to buy for a car you don't own, so, you still don't know what parts it's gonna NEED before you start doing upgrades, or whether or not the engine is even built up enough to benefit much from headers anyway.
dirty white boy
50 yr old Juvenal delinquent
every engine can benefit from a good set of long tube headers!! shortys are half ***'d and ant much better than a good set of cast iron manifolds! dougs seem to be best fitting and best cost, orilleys has a sale on them every so often, headers and good exhaust should be first upgrade after any and all safety issues are fixed first!
junkyardhero
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1- the car already has headers on it? then unless they're literally falling apart, destroyed or rusting off leave them on and use that money elsewhere
2- you don't need headers for the kind of build you're doing. if you want headers, that's fine but they're totally unnecessary for what you're building and the gains that you're going to get for the money spent are minimal.
look at the dyno charts from the article @273 linked. from 318 manifolds to 1 5/8" tti's you're giving up 15~20 in tq & hp in a fairly narrow range, and then the numbers fall off abruptly at about 4500 due to the cam (basically a 360 2bbl). that combo also has what appears to be a demon 750 double pumper with mechanical 2ndaries, where as you're talking about running a 2bbl or a smaller 4bbl on a less aggressive intake, different, likely smaller heads, and probably smaller cam, with likely less compression. which would mean even less gains.
do headers make a difference, yes. do they make enough of a difference on your particular combo to spend that kind of money? that's for you to decide. but dropping a smooth G for 15~20 bragging ponies isn't my style.
2- you don't need headers for the kind of build you're doing. if you want headers, that's fine but they're totally unnecessary for what you're building and the gains that you're going to get for the money spent are minimal.
look at the dyno charts from the article @273 linked. from 318 manifolds to 1 5/8" tti's you're giving up 15~20 in tq & hp in a fairly narrow range, and then the numbers fall off abruptly at about 4500 due to the cam (basically a 360 2bbl). that combo also has what appears to be a demon 750 double pumper with mechanical 2ndaries, where as you're talking about running a 2bbl or a smaller 4bbl on a less aggressive intake, different, likely smaller heads, and probably smaller cam, with likely less compression. which would mean even less gains.
do headers make a difference, yes. do they make enough of a difference on your particular combo to spend that kind of money? that's for you to decide. but dropping a smooth G for 15~20 bragging ponies isn't my style.
dirty white boy
50 yr old Juvenal delinquent
....headers will make every other up grade ever done better! next up grade would be cam intake and carb, yes a 3fer!
junkyardhero
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i don't dispute this point one bit. it's just that with a the type of build he's doing that money would be so much better spent elsewhere.
spend 1K on headers for a 318 2bbl or "because you don't like the ones on it" or spend 1K on a disc brake upgrade and shocks, or a rear end upgrade, or upgrading your ignition/electrical system, or AC.
mygasser
Well-Known Member
the right tool to swap the 2 awkward spark plugs partially hidden behind the existing headers would be a better (much cheaper) investment.
neil.
neil.
Not disrespectful. That’s an honest and good question.
The longer the tube, the more torque the header builds. The shorter the header, more HP & less low end torque.
**** costs money Dan and complaining about it won’t help, cutting corners hurts the package. Getting the better of best parts pays for itself down the road. The only standard header that has the close pipe to 5&7 with the 3 tubes under the steering linkage I came across is from Summit Racing.
Good test to point out.
That was a very tame engine showing the benefits of the longer tubes. The stepped header (TTI) really shined. The straight 1-3/4 did t do as well but I’m not totally surprised by that ether. It’s at the tipping point of diminishing returns. A larger header at this point would be a looser & a race header.
Yes! It’s not done with shorty headers. A very good inexpensive exhaust kit also comes from Summit Racing. I use it with there headers. A true dual exhaust set up.
Yes!
YES! Get it home, go over the car starting with a change of all the fluids and filters. Tune up. Then check all steering, drive train and suspension parts. Tires and brakes. Replace as needed. Check electrical system.
Test drive around the block. And then longer trips.
Once you drive it around some and the car earns your trust, then you can start to modify it. Don’t put race parts on a tame or stock engine. Your intake track for a street engine should be a K&N filter, small 4bbl. carb (I like a 650 AVS II) on top of a dual plane. The top 3 intakes of my choice would be a RPM, Action Plus or for a 318 specificly, a LD4B, but they can be a pricey intake for an old part.
For an exhaust, I’d look to ether the Doug’s or TTI headers.
TTI also has a full exhaust system you can purchase.
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Professor Fate
Push the button, Max...
First off, what year A body? Early As, no go unless you're willing/able to do fab work.
Later ('67 and up) A body, yeah they're out there. I'll even do the search for you.
Passenger Car Headers | Hedman Performance Group
Are they worth it? They're fine for a mild build or for a situation where you don't have good, or any, exhaust manifolds. You've already got (if you actually get it) long tubes, so why do you want to take a step backwards?
If you get the car, run it as-is for a while as you sort out any NECESSARY work that needs to be done- you may find out that you're perfectly happy with how it performs. Then you can actually drive it and enjoy it as opposed to chasing every whiz-bang, shiny, latest beat-all part that comes along. Do they all help? Yes, to some degree. Will you ever notice it? Most likely not. Does chasing every little gizmo stand a good chance of not only draining your wallet, but will also turn your car into a perpetual garage ornament instead of being out on the road where it belongs. You've said in other threads that you don't want a "project" car- why do you insist on turning it into one?
Later ('67 and up) A body, yeah they're out there. I'll even do the search for you.
Passenger Car Headers | Hedman Performance Group
Are they worth it? They're fine for a mild build or for a situation where you don't have good, or any, exhaust manifolds. You've already got (if you actually get it) long tubes, so why do you want to take a step backwards?
If you get the car, run it as-is for a while as you sort out any NECESSARY work that needs to be done- you may find out that you're perfectly happy with how it performs. Then you can actually drive it and enjoy it as opposed to chasing every whiz-bang, shiny, latest beat-all part that comes along. Do they all help? Yes, to some degree. Will you ever notice it? Most likely not. Does chasing every little gizmo stand a good chance of not only draining your wallet, but will also turn your car into a perpetual garage ornament instead of being out on the road where it belongs. You've said in other threads that you don't want a "project" car- why do you insist on turning it into one?
justinp61
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I believe you're over thinking it. Buy the car, make sure it has a good tune in it and enjoy. If you want to upgrade, make a plan, then start accumulating parts to achieve your goal. When you have everything needed then tear into it.
AAAAAAAGREED 100%!
j par
Well-hung Member
How often do you plan on changing the spark plugs?..
Are you going to be driving 12k miles per year?..
I realize it's not completely wide open like the others, but it's not like it's gonna take an extra minute per plug to change.. You simply break it loose with the correct socket and then slip a piece of fuel line over the top of it and spin it out and put it back in the same way and just using the socket to snug it down very simple, not even worth this whole thread to think about....
(Get a car......)
Are you going to be driving 12k miles per year?..
I realize it's not completely wide open like the others, but it's not like it's gonna take an extra minute per plug to change.. You simply break it loose with the correct socket and then slip a piece of fuel line over the top of it and spin it out and put it back in the same way and just using the socket to snug it down very simple, not even worth this whole thread to think about....
(Get a car......)
I’ve had some really tight clearance headers over the number 5&7 cylinders. I’d put the spark plug socket on and turn it with an open end wrench.
@j par
That rubber hose on the end trick is a handy mention for removal and installation if the header tube is that tight.
Yup! Been there done that one.
@j par
That rubber hose on the end trick is a handy mention for removal and installation if the header tube is that tight.
Yup! Been there done that one.
Rapid Robert
Well-Known Member
Professor, to confirm, the hedman 78500 shorties will not fit an early A? I have a 63 A 360 with EQ iron heads (I understand the ex port is a bit different). I have a set of those hedmans not yet installed. I mocked up some magnum ex manifolds but I had to jack up the eng to clear the steering box to where I dont think the air cleaner will clear the hood plus I also had to lower the steering box. this is a hobby stock race car with thin aftermarket steering column so there was no interference there. is there another set of iron ex manifolds that flow reasonably well? Professor thank you for your thoughts. RR
Professor Fate
Push the button, Max...
They can be made to fit, but like I said, you have to be willing/able to do fab work to modify them. Remember, these are designed for later ('67 and up) A bodies, the early As are quite a bit more confined.
The passenger side fits fine, however the driver's side needs a bit of work.
Stock:
Modified:
Note that the #1 tube has to be cut and rerouted so it joins the #3 tube, and the collector needs to be reworked after #1 has been removed from it. Since #1 and #3 don't fire at the same time, sharing the #3 exhaust tube has minimal effect on the performance of the shorty header.
63 dart v8 swap
Inertia
Well-Known Member
I chuckle everytime someone bitches about a little challenge putting in headers, as if they change them every month, - headers are the most cost effective h/p addition next to NO2.
My headers have been in over 7 yrs, some much longer .
Dan the man
Well-Known Member
What I mean by a project car is one that needs major body work, sorry I didn't explain that. I don't mind a little engine work but what you said I agree with you 100%. I may very well enjoy the car as it is. Once the car is home is to go over it, brakes, exhaust, etc. You guys have been very helpful and patient with me and I thank everyone.
Here is a decently priced set if you're set on going with a shorty header, [FOR SALE] - TTI Shorty Headers & Head Pipes
You say mild and 318 now as you start your journey who knows where it might go, I'll try to buy things that will work on later possible upgrades you might end up want to do later.
Good exhaust carb intake gears heads etc.. Will work great over a wide range of engines if picked well.
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