help me build my first race car

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moparmorrell

moparmorrell

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hello fabo members. im looking to buid my first street strip car, and im reaching out to you guys to guide me the way. i have a 74 duster /6 car that i want to put a big block 400 in it. i'm shooting for a 11 second hopefully low elevens maybe high tens car but i have to consider im on a bit of a budget so maybe mid to high 11's for now. i would like to stroke it but that whole budget thing again so i would like to do this for as cheap as i can (but not to cheap if you know what i mean). so i guess i'm asking what do i need to do to put the big block in are there headers that fit this car with out cutting my car up, is there just a conversion kit for the big block, rearend gears and work, rollcages, etc. would stroking be cheaper than other options or? i would like to move the leafs in with the conversion i've seen, and mini tubs. also any advice on tire size, and just any advice tips tricks or whatever would be greatly appreciated. i do know some things like moving the battery cal tracs and such but would like to know the right combination of things to make a good street/strip car. thanks for looking and any help.


p.s. any good engine combos for my time braket (hopefully with iron heads without a lot of work or cheap aluminum ones) that anyones willing to share would be awesome :burnout:
 
Well I don't have that much time right now but I will offer you this bit of advice. Build the best chassis you can build. I know it's not as sexy as a 600 HP engine but you'll go faster with less engine if the chassis works.

The baddest engine in the world is useless if you can't hook it up.
 
This is my take on this,after building my own.Do a search on here(FABO)Racingjunk.com,Craigs List for a car already done.There,s a ton for sale with the bad economy and can be had cheap,you can choose what you want(BB or SB)For the amount of time and money it takes,your way ahead finding one complete or minus drivetrain.This is just after my own personal experience with a build.

Do you have the skills to weld,fabricate,diagnois?All this will cost you if you don,t have the skills.Again JMO.Good luck.
 
Guitar Jones said:
Well I don't have that much time right now but I will offer you this bit of advice. Build the best chassis you can build. I know it's not as sexy as a 600 HP engine but you'll go faster with less engine if the chassis works.

The baddest engine in the world is useless if you can't hook it up.
Click to expand...
X2 no truer words can be spoken.and as far as motor why not build a 451 out of your 400 I understand they are cheap to build and are a strong running motor.I have seen them run well into the 10s.In a good chassis..and if you go with motor pleats will save $ a 10or11 sec.car can be dun petty cheap if you can do the work your self.......Artie
 
Artie (God-father) makes sense. Also, your un-known budget is an issue. G-Jones makes a great point on where to start in building your own if you can't purchase all ready done like pettyblu said. Which is the big dollar winner.

Speaking of dollars vs bang for the buck ....

Rebuilding the 400 with just an overbore and oversize slugs is about the cheapest way to get started (Engine wise) The 400 can run into the 11 easy. 10's without a big effort. It's just harder for a smaller engine. Stroking often comes up since the kits are cheap and displacements are easy to go up fast and into 500+ cubes on just a phone call and card charge/debit run.

The old MoPar Performance catalogs gave "Tips" (Actual part listing) on how to get your strip ride into the *** zone. Basically, without much detail ... for now... you just need a decent compression ratio, a MP cam (296/.557) a single plane M1 and ported heads (Well ported big valve) Add gear/converter/springs and reduce weight.
 
Lets start with the body/suspension.

Reduce the cars weight with fiberglass panels/bumpers and lack of things within as best you can. Hood/bumpers/fenders add up quickly.
Since you already have a /6 car, the front T-bars are fine. Rear leaf springs should be moved in board into the frame rails for max clearance. Install the suspension you like.
 
Would a healthy small block setup be a bit easier to swap/build etc? Maybe less expensive? Just a thought...
 
rip the interior out, except the dash. toss the front and back bumpers, hood and trunk lid out and replace with fiber glass. remove the door panels and take everything out that isn't needed including metal. the same with the quarters. 8 3/4" and rear gears will be 4.30-4.56 with a 29.5"x10.5" slick. move the springs inboard, mini tub and install ss springs. rebuild a 727 with a race kit and a manual valve body. use 8"-9" convertor. grab a set of 2" in the chassis headers. get a set of high compression pistons, a solid lifter cam and kit at least .600"+. home port the heads with the mp templets. port match intake and exhaust but don't take any off the exhaust floor. balance the motor. aluminum rocker gear. use a single plane intake like a tarancula(?) or one of the newer ones. a double pumper 850 holley. holley black fuel pump with #8 line from the fuel cell to pump and #6 line to the carb. all this will get you into the mid to low 11's easy with a 400+.060" block.
 
"Put the cart before the horse" Don't me to throw an old saying out there. These guys are right and I know it sounds backwards, but if you don't you will be breaking things left and right. Work on body stiffening, tubs, suspension, rear end and axles, drive shaft, transmission and worry about the motor later and that will give you plenty of time to collect engine parts. Unless you have enough money up front to pay for everything.
 
Divenut said:
Would a healthy small block setup be a bit easier to swap/build etc? Maybe less expensive? Just a thought...
Click to expand...
dollar for dollar a big block will go faster don't get me wrong I love a small block but on a budget big block is first choice.dont what to get in a shoting match over this. I have built them both and the bigblock wins...........Artie
 
Here's a car on the cheap.

1974 Duster bought at a action $650
Son Jon
IMGP1284.jpg


Schumacher mm mounts
Schumacher headers
440 engine .180 down in the hole.1976 engine
Performer RPM intake
780 holley carb
.528 cam and related parts
well built 727
3500 converter
sub frame connectors
8 1/4 rear end with 3.91 gears

IMGP0513.jpg


IMGP0498.jpg


IMGP1283.jpg


IMGP0496.jpg


This car as it sits runs 12.20's consistantly.
With 100 hp nos it ran 11.59

Don't worry about the 8 1/4 it has over 200 pass's and with 50 pass's on the nos

What others on this post have said are valid.
But if you want to build your own,I have about $6000 into this car.
 
godfatherofchry said:
dollar for dollar a big block will go faster don't get me wrong I love a small block but on a budget big block is first choice.dont what to get in a shoting match over this. I have built them both and the bigblock wins...........Artie
Click to expand...

Ya, I hear you, no replacement for displacement. Keep in mind I have only recently seen the light after 30 years as a BowTie guy. Them SBC's can built built dirt cheap. But then again, they're like belly buttons too.... :D

Pat
 
thanks everybody for the responses, i was extremly excited to see so much feedback i have recieved already. after reading over everything i guess im going to focus on chassis work for now, then the rearend tranny and so on. how many point roll cage do i need if i plan to make a ten second car someday. i was planning on moving the leafs in and doing mini tubs. what all chassis things do i need to focus on. i would like to get this thing as built as possible for being a ten second car. again thank you for all the feedback and please keep it coming
 
The NHRA has a page with the rules. Go to NHRA.com for there guide lines. You may not need to install tubes. Move the springs inboard first. This will give a lot of tire clearance. Check out the tire threads. I do know some guys have installed 295/50/15's, 275/60/15's in the stock wheel well area with nothing more than off set shackles and/or the relocation kit that moves the springs into the frame rails.

Womenator, I love it! Nice score on a cheap and good looking ride. A low compression 440 mill running low 12's. Excellent!
 
Get out a plasma cutter, sazall, drill, hack saw, whatever you have and start removing steel. If you can't afford fiberglass, there is a Tom of weight in the factory bumpers. Remove them and lookat the backside. You will see a steel brace. Unbolt it, and trash it. Build a new mount to re attach the bumper and it will shed a bunch of weight. Remove door panels and cut down the structure, keep what's needed to make the windows work but remove everything else. Remove the dash and remove the heater box, cut out all the structure offend back side ofthe dash. Remove the interior 1/4 panel deal and remove stele under it (the door panel for the back seat for a lack of a better term) The rear bumper can be gutted just like the front. Remove the carpet, headliner and all trim panels, replace factory seat with after market remove back seat install firewall blocking PDF the trunk, (needed when you relocate the battery anyway) make it out of aluminum, remove inner fenders up front and replace them with thin aluminum. Once your done with that, take whole saw to any remaining steel that could loose a little more meat without loosing too much strength. All of this can be done for about $45 for aluminum, $10 for some steel to make bumper mounts, $250-300 for a new drivers seat. And about 3weekends of time. And you will already have a faster car. Removing weight is cheaper than adding hp. Once you have all the weight out you should be down around 2800-2600 pounds, if not way less. The weight loss will compensate for the added weight ofthe big block, and cage. And you should end up about where you are now weight
Wise instead of 300-400 poindsheavyer. That's good for roughly .3 to .4 drop in ET
 
rumblefish360 said:
The NHRA has a page with the rules. Go to NHRA.com for there guide lines. You may not need to install tubes. Move the springs inboard first. This will give a lot of tire clearance. Check out the tire threads. I do know some guys have installed 295/50/15's, 275/60/15's in the stock wheel well area with nothing more than off set shackles and/or the relocation kit that moves the springs into the frame rails.

Womenator, I love it! Nice score on a cheap and good looking ride. A low compression 440 mill running low 12's. Excellent!
Click to expand...

nhra rule book is not available on line to non nhra members...I believe you can purchase a hard copy from them...

actually go to your local dragstrip and look around and ask questions to someone who has a mopar that is running a combo or as fast as you want to run...
 
IMO, if you are on a budget, go with a small block. It might cost a little more for the engine itself, but you need to take into account the other added costs of making the big block fit and work in the chassis. There are engine mounts out there that allow you to put a small block in a /6 K frame, but I don't think there's anything to go from/6 to big block without doing some fabrication. Plus, like everyone else said, you need to get the chassis set up first. When I built my Duster, I had the frame connectors, dana, race transmission, suspension rebuilt, etc while i was driving it around with the 318. Once I got the stroker in, all I had to do was some tweeks here and there.
 
70aarcuda said:
nhra rule book is not available on line to non nhra members...I believe you can purchase a hard copy from them...

actually go to your local dragstrip and look around and ask questions to someone who has a mopar that is running a combo or as fast as you want to run...
Click to expand...

Thanks 70AAR, I guess it has been that long for me .... ?????

Good advice. Go and see the been there and still doing it! :prayer:

64physhy said:
IMO, if you are on a budget, go with a small block. It might cost a little more for the engine itself, but you need to take into account the other added costs of making the big block fit and work in the chassis. There are engine mounts out there that allow you to put a small block in a /6 K frame, but I don't think there's anything to go from/6 to big block without doing some fabrication. Plus, like everyone else said, you need to get the chassis set up first. When I built my Duster, I had the frame connectors, dana, race transmission, suspension rebuilt, etc while i was driving it around with the 318. Once I got the stroker in, all I had to do was some tweeks here and there.
Click to expand...

Schmaucher creative services have the swap mounts and headers for this swap, though there not race headers. There covered by Hooker IIRC and Headman Headers as well as tti.

The only fabing needed in his "74" would be the motor mount to install the engine. I used regular headman header for a B body in the A body without much issue at all, though a buddy is key for ease of things. Everything else would be the same for a small block.

While I'm a small block fan, er, nut(case), I did want to do this for a long time.

IMO, the only real expense over building a stock stroke 400 over a small block is the price of slugs and fender wall headers with minor price increases with parts normally seen as more with big blocks. A few bucks for heads, a few bucks for this, that, etc......

I'm slowly doing a 400 in a 71 Duster now. It'll stay a stock stoke 400 for awhile.
 
Roll bar needed,not a cage,in a car running 10.00 to 10.99 if firewall is un altered and car doesnt exceed 135mph.I will bee going for the A Nitrous record for slant 6,,10.93 @ 125 mph and my roll bar is legal.Has Been 11.43 all motor at 115 mph so I will only bee giveing it a 60 shot first time out.Then maybee a 90 shot.Got over 400 runs on this motor so I am going to spray and pray.If it lives after that and I get the records on spray,I will tear down ,up compression,freshen up and try to lower my all motor records A/gas ,B/gas,and C/gas records I have.I am under 300 rwhp,,,,Wonder what the car would do with a 450 hp small block?
Guzzi Mark
 
rumblefish360 said:
Schmaucher creative services have the swap mounts and headers for this swap, though there not race headers. There covered by Hooker IIRC and Headman Headers as well as tti.

The only fabing needed in his "74" would be the motor mount to install the engine. I used regular headman header for a B body in the A body without much issue at all, though a buddy is key for ease of things. Everything else would be the same for a small block.

While I'm a small block fan, er, nut(case), I did want to do this for a long time.

IMO, the only real expense over building a stock stroke 400 over a small block is the price of slugs and fender wall headers with minor price increases with parts normally seen as more with big blocks. A few bucks for heads, a few bucks for this, that, etc......

I'm slowly doing a 400 in a 71 Duster now. It'll stay a stock stoke 400 for awhile.
Click to expand...

Schumaker makes mounts for a /6 to big block swap? I knew they did for /6 to small block and small block to big block, but didn't know they had /6 to big block.
 
Use the 6cyl. K frame. The kits from Schmaucher are K frame specific.
 
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