Help me understand rebuild vs crate?

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I like to build my own as well for the same reasons as RRR...nothing wrong with buying a crate motor, but you won't get that deep sense of accomplishment from buying a crate....On another note, since I build my own I also know who to blame when something goes wrong, lol.
 
stumblinhorse said:
Well I appreciate the opinions! I guess if I am willing to drop 5k on a crate engine, dropping 5k on a home built 390 is no more money, just more time and risk..

I looked a lot at stroker kits but I kind of thought that why would I do a 390 for the same price as a 408 from blueprint? But it comes down to “do it yourself” or pay someone else to do it. That is the real decision.
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Yep, I think you hit the nail on the head.

Read up on the details of, and think out, any warranty and what you have to do to get the benefits; don't just be mesmerized by the general warranty terms. If it does not cover any of the labor to pull the engine if there are issues (which Blueprint does not do if you install the engine yourself, whole or in part, as it sounds like the OP would do), then one of the biggest parts of dealing with any engine issue is still the purchaser's problem to do or pay for. Then you have to ship it back or take it somewhere. So a warranty is not all that valuable to some, as it can require a lot of work on your own to make any use of it; it is not like a new car warranty. IMHO, if I am pulling the engine, I'd rather just pull it apart myself, diagnose, take it locally for work, re-assemble, and be done with it; I don't have to argue over warranty claim either.

But if you don't want to be inside an engine, or don't want the installation work hassles, or don't have the tools, then you can pay an approved shop the $$ upfront to install it and have the full situation warranted. But the cost just went up considerably.

Here is the Blueprint warranty statement:
https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/2160/9839/files/sm115.pdf?5044347280740304565
 
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@nm9stheham the warranty thing I was thinking about last night. It is not like you can take it in and they will fix a lifter or something. No fault to blueprint because I think they are a making it so much better for people that don't have the skills or a place to do an engine swap.

So I think I am convinced to go the 390 route. Now I need another thread on 23CC or 5cc pistons? And 1.92 or 2.02 intakes on the LAX? 262 or 268 on the cam? I will never be below 6000ft of elevation. More decisions!
 
stumblinhorse said:
@nm9stheham the warranty thing I was thinking about last night. It is not like you can take it in and they will fix a lifter or something. No fault to blueprint because I think they are a making it so much better for people that don't have the skills or a place to do an engine swap.
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Yep, and no one is saying it is unfair; just be aware of the actual terms and how it effects your individual situation. It seems like standard warranty verbiage, where the supplier decides to protect themselves to a reasonable degree. (I run a business and we have limitations on work and parts issues too.)
 
5cc of valve relief pistons. 1.92'' valves due to the small bore size. and being your first build-try your best to do everything right, take your time, and keep it simple. when u do it yourself every time you hear it run it is great!
 
Marcohotrod said:
5cc of valve relief pistons. 1.92'' valves due to the small bore size. and being your first build-try your best to do everything right, take your time, and keep it simple. when u do it yourself every time you hear it run it is great!
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5cc would give me 11.7 SCR. That seems pretty high, but at my elevation that should still be okay for 91 octane.
 
Just a general statement about our warranty. You're not "on your own" by any means. And you don't lose support for a self install. The #1 thing to remember is to call us directly, if there is an issue. Warranty Verbiage has to be what it is, in black and white, to protect us as a company from exploitation. Now, what you have from me, is a promise that if you follow our procedures, and pre-approval process, you will NOT end up on your own, or out of pocket for things that are clearly no fault of your own. Our warranty team is excellent, and I can say that we do go FAR above the black and white language of a warranty statement. If you do a rebuild yourself, thats no problem at all with me, but don't let it be because you think you become 100% responsible for the engine the second you drop it in yourself. And also, if it comes to a point where it needs pulled and returned to us for repair or replacement, we obviously cover the freight also.

Best of luck either way! again not trying to toot my own horn at all. Just want to keep an eye on the assumptions related to us.

If you do a rebuild, remember we sell some trick ignition and fuel components also :) even if its a $20 coil, i'll be happy to help any way I can! At the end of the day I'm also a mopar owner thats done a bunch of engine installs and vehicle builds. Helping is my top goal. that doesn't change just because you aren't sitting on 5K of BPE product. :)
 
Some of your price estimates seem a bit high. It all comes down to how mild to wild you want your engine. You can get a master rebuild kit for around $400 + $300 for your cam and lifter package. Engine machine around $800 Maybe $500 for a stock valve job on your original heads. Add 500 for incidentals and you have a good running engine with mild cam for $2500. If you are shrewd and shop around you may be able to get that motor for less than $2000. Starting with a stock 360 block would give you more power and displacement for the same price. Now if you are chasing horsepower the Blueprint crate engine is hard to beet but for a mostly stock 318 car you can build it pretty cheap with good results.

You want your engine to be cheap, reliable and fast. You can only pick 2 of those though.
 
are u looking at a 390 kit, where is 5cc or 23cc coming from, piston compression distance? decking the block? I guessed 65 cc heads, 5 cc valve notches pistons, .045" gaskets, 4.100" gasket bores, 3.94" bores, 4.00" stroke , 1.810" comp. distance = a lovely 10.5:1
 
Poor ole me? I just look for a decent running used engine, cheap, that is not completely woreout! NO stroker new, more HP stuff for my ole ***!! LOL
 
I bought a Blueprint 408, worked out very well. Some things you need to keep in mind if you build it yourself, You need to measure everything. You can’t take anyones word for measurements. You need to have or borrow Micrometers for the crank journals, bore gauges for the bores,rod ends, cylinders, a deck bridge with dial indicator. Degree wheel. Ring compressor, syringes to check chamber volume. Torque wrenches. Rod bolt stretch guage. The motto for building engines is the same as the nuclear disarmament “trust but verify”
 
Hard choice.

I'm a builder, but does everything I do need to be custom/1 off...? Maybe, maybe not.

Could change the cam, could work the heads... that "planned around the advertised compression" would change the power and it's rpm profile.

I like building and modifying, it's a pride and learning thing for me. I never really want what others have, nor want to spend the amount some have...yikes...

Nothing wrong with "any" reman'd motor as long as it was done right.
 
stumblinhorse said:
@nm9stheham the warranty thing I was thinking about last night. It is not like you can take it in and they will fix a lifter or something. No fault to blueprint because I think they are a making it so much better for people that don't have the skills or a place to do an engine swap.

So I think I am convinced to go the 390 route. Now I need another thread on 23CC or 5cc pistons? And 1.92 or 2.02 intakes on the LAX? 262 or 268 on the cam? I will never be below 6000ft of elevation. More decisions!
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Congrats! Feels good to make a decision and move forward. Remember, have fun with your project.
 
The worst situation you can be in is you build it and it doesn’t run right. So you ask for help and people ask questions like what is the static compression? Did you degree the cam? Well the machine shop said it would be 10:1, the cam is straight up. The real answer is unless you measure it you DON’T know. You can measure it in the begining or after you take it back apart.
 
Keep the bullshit to a minimum here boys.

Any engine you build yourself (tell us again how you smelted the ore when casting your block) doesnt magically attach itself to the car or magically float back on to the engine stand when something breaks. I installed my crate motor all by myself and I can sure as hell pull it back out if I have to. It's ridiculous to suggest that building a motor is simple, doable, whatever, but the potential need to yank it out yourself is somehow an evil game changer. And BTW I don't necessarily interpret the fine print that way either.

Besides buying the crate motor, there are still a thousand other things to do with all the other bolt ons, peripherals, welding, cleaning, plumbing, wiring etc etc which ALL provide massive amounts of satisfaction when it all comes together and it fires up.

Everyone's individual situation is different; I think the OP was looking for some objective input on his next move. Like so many previous, similar threads, the purely subjective arguments are coming from folks who HAVENT any real world experience with one of these engines.

Some before and after pictures. And yeah, I feel very satisfied.

100_6961.JPG
20180506_142112.jpg

100_7883.JPG
 
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It all boils down to some or all of: money, knowledge, desire to learn, satisfaction from, desire to make or buy, tools, clean place to work maybe, type engine desired, and sometimes a knowledge friend that is close and handy.
In some cases, a safe place for your parts that the rug rats can't find!!?? LOL
 
340dartley said:
Some of your price estimates seem a bit high. It all comes down to how mild to wild you want your engine. You can get a master rebuild kit for around $400 + $300 for your cam and lifter package. Engine machine around $800 Maybe $500 for a stock valve job on your original heads. Add 500 for incidentals and you have a good running engine with mild cam for $2500. If you are shrewd and shop around you may be able to get that motor for less than $2000. Starting with a stock 360 block would give you more power and displacement for the same price. Now if you are chasing horsepower the Blueprint crate engine is hard to beet but for a mostly stock 318 car you can build it pretty cheap with good results.

You want your engine to be cheap, reliable and fast. You can only pick 2 of those though.
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So the cost that I posted are from talking to Machine shops in my area and summit or equivalent for parts.

I had my 675 heads done a few months ago because they were the original leaded gas valves and were pretty much done. They cost $759 and change to be re-done. Hindsight, I would have never redone them.

Here are the Machining cost.
130 Hot tank
185 Bore and Hone
145 Square the deck
150 freeze plugs and cam bearings installed
230 to balance the rotating assembly
150 line bore if main bearing are bad

That is the lowest cost I could find and not the place I have used in the past that I know does a good job. Not always best to pick the cheapest.

Here is the other cost and links for a simple rebuild

Pistons Keith Black 167 https://www.summitracing.com/parts/uem-kb167ktm-020 $415
Lax heads https://www.indyheads.com/imagesmaxlaxnewproductlinK.pdf $1100 w/shipping
New ARP Head Studs for RHS heads - $75 ARP Individual Studs AR5.750-1LB
Comp cams magnum roller rocker https://www.summitracing.com/parts/cca-1622-16 $545
New Pushrods $100
Lunati 262 cam and lifter Lunati Voodoo Cam and Lifter Kits 10200702LK $210
Double roller chain Howards Cams Double Roller Billet Steel Timing Sets 94330 $100
Gaskets $150

That is where I got my costs.
 
stumblinhorse said:
So the cost that I posted are from talking to Machine shops in my area and summit or equivalent for parts.

I had my 675 heads done a few months ago because they were the original leaded gas valves and were pretty much done. They cost $759 and change to be re-done. Hindsight, I would have never redone them.

Here are the Machining cost.
130 Hot tank
185 Bore and Hone
145 Square the deck
150 freeze plugs and cam bearings installed
230 to balance the rotating assembly
150 line bore if main bearing are bad

That is the lowest cost I could find and not the place I have used in the past that I know does a good job. Not always best to pick the cheapest.

Here is the other cost and links for a simple rebuild

Pistons Keith Black 167 https://www.summitracing.com/parts/uem-kb167ktm-020 $415
Lax heads https://www.indyheads.com/imagesmaxlaxnewproductlinK.pdf $1100 w/shipping
New ARP Head Studs for RHS heads - $75 ARP Individual Studs AR5.750-1LB
Comp cams magnum roller rocker https://www.summitracing.com/parts/cca-1622-16 $545
New Pushrods $100
Lunati 262 cam and lifter Lunati Voodoo Cam and Lifter Kits 10200702LK $210
Double roller chain Howards Cams Double Roller Billet Steel Timing Sets 94330 $100
Gaskets $150

That is where I got my costs.
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150.00 to install cam bearings and freeze plugs... wow.

It was 40 bucks last I had someone do it.
For 150.00 bucks you can buy the damn installer and do it yourself.
 
stumblinhorse said:
So the cost that I posted are from talking to Machine shops in my area and summit or equivalent for parts.
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Did the machine shops give you an approximate lead time for how long they would be able to do your work? I know where I am that most machine shops are busy and have 2 - 3 month backlog.
 
General Disarray said:
Did the machine shops give you an approximate lead time for how long they would be able to do your work? I know where I am that most machine shops are busy and have 2 - 3 month backlog.
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3 weeks wait. They said they would tell me the size of the pistons I should purchased and then I should bring those to them for final hone and then balancing the rotating assembly with the new pistons.
 
Marcohotrod said:
are u looking at a 390 kit, where is 5cc or 23cc coming from, piston compression distance? decking the block? I guessed 65 cc heads, 5 cc valve notches pistons, .045" gaskets, 4.100" gasket bores, 3.94" bores, 4.00" stroke , 1.810" comp. distance = a lovely 10.5:1
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This is the scat cranks 390 kits. Which seem complete and top quality at the lowest price. DODGE 5.2L/318 MOPAR SMALL BLOCK LA Scat Engine Rotating Assemblies - Balanced

Not looking at O decking the block. LAX heads are 62 CC advertised.
 
I wonder if all the members that scream from the mountian tops how seamingly simple it is to "slap an engine together" will be providing a 3 year warranty to the op?
 
I have fully restored two cars and am pretty mechanically inclined. I have assisted on rebuilding two engines (a 440 and a 273), still not sure I'd want to take one on solo, maybe after a couple more.

Know your limits, go from there.


Alan
 
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