Steve Agrella
Well-Known Member
We updated them with precision brand which are much thicker and stronger
Help with front end alignment
- Thread starter Steve Agrella
- Start date
-
rklein383
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Dec 2, 2005
- Messages
- 2,221
- Reaction score
- 1,849
I bought a digital angle finder similar to the link below and cut a length of 1/2 square metal tubing to rest against the wheel to do my measurements. https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07GH7Y5ZM/?tag=fabo03-20
Is the alignment set now to the set of second specs in the pictures above? I'm sure it pulls to the right. The caster needs to be much more equal.
I'll agree on the feathering. I'm splitting hairs I guess. The picture is just old school and looks like a biased tire that just feathered a couple ribs when the toe was off just a little compared to scrubbing the whole tire when toe is off by a large amount while a radial tire will flex the sidewall, when toe is off by a small amount and push the whole tread over and just scrub the edge. Inside when toed out and outside when toed in. Comparatively, camber will wear more of the tire than just the edge. It's a fine line to decipher but the numbers tells the rest of the story.
No, I don't think you are, really. You're speaking in terms where someone probably has their alignment fairly close.
I'm speaking in terms as an alignment tech for YEARS seeing idiots completely ignore their alignment and come in with tires so feathered from toe that you can just about cut your hand on the rubber edge. So I think we're talking about two different ends of the same subject. lol
Okay, but I think your dyslexia has kicked in on the direction of pull.
Yeah you're right. It'll pull to the left. For some reason, I thought the least caster was on the right side. LOLOkay, but I think your dyslexia has kicked in on the direction of pull.
It's ugly either way.
Very true. How anyone could let it go thinking it'd come close to driving straight is beyond me.
When you say the torsion bar is hitting the frame, do you mean the bar itself or the adjusting lever on the LCA? If the bar is hitting the frame, you have much bigger problems.
Because you have the QA1 tubular LCA's it is possible to "clock" them incorrectly. Based on the differences in your adjusting bolts, it sounds like one of your LCA's may be installed 1 hex flat off from the other side. If that happens sometimes the adjusting lever can hit the frame.
The guy at the alignment shop is a complete moron. First off, your toe specs are wrong even now. Those degrees of toe indicate that you have ~5/16" of toe. That setting should be 1/16" to 1/8". And even if you have other suspension issues, the toe is almost a completely separate adjustment. There's no reason the toe can't be 100% correct, and instead it's way off.
Second, those eccentric washers may be cheap, but it's your tech that rounded them off. The car didn't do that, even if it's completely out of whack. And that means your tech rounded them off and left them on the car.
autoxcuda
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Apr 6, 2007
- Messages
- 9,086
- Reaction score
- 4,244
One thing I can see possible on the vehicle fault is if the frame section that cradles those cam eccentrics it messed up.
like rusted out, tabs bent, too much paint, had some wonky repairs in past. That will not allow the cams to rotate freely.
You should have noticed this when you installed all the suspension. So it’s probably not the issue.
like rusted out, tabs bent, too much paint, had some wonky repairs in past. That will not allow the cams to rotate freely.
You should have noticed this when you installed all the suspension. So it’s probably not the issue.
You would think the tire wear would be on the outside with those toe settings.
autoxcuda
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Apr 6, 2007
- Messages
- 9,086
- Reaction score
- 4,244
Im calculating 0.112” total toe or little less than 1/8”. Using this online calculator:
Convert Toe Degrees to Inches
Inputs:
225/60/15 = 25.6” diameter,
Current total toe = 0.25 degrees positive,
One wheel toe = 0.125 deg.
PLEASE check my work and inputs.
0.112” total toe in is a little less than 1/8
rklein383
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Dec 2, 2005
- Messages
- 2,221
- Reaction score
- 1,849
I bought a set of these for doing my toe checks. HECASA Toe Plates-Most Accurate DIY Wheel Alignment Tool/Gauge Aluminum | eBay
abodyjoe
Well-Known Member
ok so it has QA1 k-frame, QA1 upper arms,QA1 lower arms.. detail what the rest of the suspension is. what torsion bars are in it? were all the ball joints, tie rods, bushings, pitman and idler arms replaced too?
Looks good to me. I just divide degrees by 2 to get a rough estimate of inches.
Steve Agrella
Well-Known Member
Everything else is new stock except original torsion bars
Steve Agrella
Well-Known Member
That’s what the working on by splitting the difference
Steve Agrella
Well-Known Member
It drove straight as an arrow it don’t pull until the camber washer moved however by that time the tires were already badly worn on the inside
Steve Agrella
Well-Known Member
Yes and it pulls to the left
Steve Agrella
Well-Known Member
Are you talking that the torsion bar maybe clocked incorrectly in the upper control arm
autoxcuda
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Apr 6, 2007
- Messages
- 9,086
- Reaction score
- 4,244
In the lower control arm hexes. The bed where the torsion bar slips into the lower control arm
Yeah but he doesn't have .25° of toe. He has .35° on one side, .32° on the other, and a total toe of .67°. So if you put in .335° (this calculator splits it per wheel)
You get .299" of toe, which is a little less than 5/16". This is the toe setting now, not what it was when it wore the inside of the tires. I bring attention to it because that alignment it totally screwed up, and that's the "fixed" version. This shop is in over it's head.
The toe setting is the only thing that will wear radials that fast without being ridiculously obvious. Even a camber in the 3° range wouldn't wear tires that fast, and it would look like this...
Torsion bar hex goes into a socket on the LCA. But otherwise, yes. The tubular LCA's, because of their narrow profile, can hang down further on the pin than a factory LCA. So if you follow the factory instructions on LCA installation and let the LCA hang down, the factory LCA hits the K frame. The QA1 LCA can hang literally straight down. What that does is it makes more than one hex flat available for the LCA position. So you can mis-clock the LCA on the torsion bar. It's almost impossible to do with the stock LCA's, but it's actually pretty easy to do with the QA1's. I've done it. That could explain why the torsion bar adjusters are so different, one of the LCA's is installed a hex flat off from the other one.
But that DOESN'T explain any of your other issues, as you've described them. Do you have a picture of where the torsion bar is hitting the frame?
The loss of alignment could have been from the original eccentric bolts and washers. There were aftermarket eccentrics that weren't threaded far enough down the bolt, so, they tightened up before they actually clamped the UCA in place. They eccentrics could then move, and you'd lose your alignment. It could be what you had, your tech then overtorqued the bolts trying to lock it down and stripped the eccentric washers. Or maybe the tech just completely hammered the eccentrics first and that's why it moved.
Either way they sent you on your way with a completely unacceptable alignment. You could do better yourself just eyeballing it and using a tape measure.
Last edited:
autoxcuda
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Apr 6, 2007
- Messages
- 9,086
- Reaction score
- 4,244
I thought the top printout labeled “before” was what the car came in at.
The bottom printout labeled “current” is what it left the shop at. What he currently has I believe?
I used the “current” toe measurements for my calcs.
it’s sorta hard to read that sheet.
Last edited:
Ironracer
Gearhead
WOW!!!!!!! The 'Ol Boy up at Fred Cox used toe gauge.. maybe that dude used a tape measure and had "Inch-itus"?
-
