Hey parts vendors, how about INCLUDING A DECENT SET OF INSTRUCTIONS in with the products you sell?

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Phreakish said:
I do mean it. It doesn't matter how foolproof we make anything, the majority are simply bigger fools.
The cost of making detailed manuals is often higher than development a good product, and if that manual doesn't save enough in customer service costs then it's simply a waste of cash.
Since most folks won't read instructions and the rest are illiterate, the math is easy.
The "problem" is that too many fancy themselves far more capable than they really are. There's nothing that can't be figured out by anyone with a three digit IQ and a few hours (or days in some cases).
If a few hours to look at and understand a system is too much, take up knitting.
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If it comes down to buying a product with decent instructions, or a product with no instructions and having that company expect me to spend "a few hours or days" to figure it out, guess which one I'm buying? That's just bad business.
 
diymirage said:
I used to work in manufacturing a long time ago and when things got slow we would do random QC
I'd grab a box of parts, pull up the blueprint and see if everything was within spec

One day grabbed a skid and pulled up the print

And of course there is a date on the print and this little "revision" box on the bottom

(Now, usually revision boxes add info or tell you when things are changed for whatever reason)

This print literary said "revision A: print changed to match parts in stock
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That happens so frequently it's not even funny. Somehow the machinist always knows better, but then assembly has to modify every part to fit - despite engineerings poring over the tolerance stacks to avoid it.
 
Righty Tighty said:
If it comes down to buying a product with decent instructions, or a product with no instructions and having that company expect me to spend "a few hours or days" to figure it out, guess which one I'm buying? That's just bad business.
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You'll never know which is which until after it's purchased. Also, making the highest quality and best performing parts and systems available tends to overcome the "drawback" of expecting customers to have a clue.

The vast majority of stuff like this is sold to pros anyway. They know what they're doing. Trying to educate the masses is an exercise in futility.
 
I bought a trailer hitch for a newer car. Took it out of the box and threw the instructions to the side and started the install. Fought with it, there was a tab that didn't make sense. spent an hour fighting with it, scratched it. Finally I read the instructions and the first page described how to get around three main problems I was having.

Some items have well written instructions but who reads instructions LOL.
 
Phreakish said:
You'll never know which is which until after it's purchased.
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True, but A) I can return the item and B) if I have enough dealings with whatever random company I'm not happy with, they don't get my money anymore.

You're right, many companies make outstanding quality parts that may or may not include instructions. Might be worth it, might not be. But if I'm buying some obscure aftermarket gizmo and the company just "expects" me to know how they intended it to be installed, shame on them.
 
bcschief said:
Instead of instructions you get pictographs, I thought we did away with that with hieroglyphics in the pyramids.
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Boy is that the truth. I have no goddam clue what 98% of the stupid little symbols mean on everything - my truck's dash, the washing machine, my air conditioner, microwave etc. Don't get me started on the Canon EOS. Without the 200 page manual (150 pages of disclaimers and legal bullshit), I can't do anything except take a still photo in Auto mode.

I used a label printer to convert the panel on a new de humidifier that gets used very rarely to actual english words so next time I use it I'll have it running in a few seconds by hitting the right button right away.

I wouldn't mind paying an extra $50 for the same fridge that just said CRUSHED ICE or CHANGE FILTER, instead of making me play Pictionary every time.

And then there's saving the planet by throwing away the non-english 7/8 of the mostly useless instructions.
 
Righty Tighty said:
True, but A) I can return the item and B) if I have enough dealings with whatever random company I'm not happy with, they don't get my money anymore.

You're right, many companies make outstanding quality parts that may or may not include instructions. Might be worth it, might not be. But if I'm buying some obscure aftermarket gizmo and the company just "expects" me to know how they intended it to be installed, shame on them.
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Car stuff isn't IKEA, most systems are pretty much the same and everyone modifies their car differently. Trying to cover every way in which someone might have modified their car prior to the latest gizmo is simply more work than it's worth.
Documentation costs a TON of money. Lots of smaller shops simply cannot invest in good instructions. Expecting someone to know the basics isn't too much. A first time install will always have a learning curve and trying to eliminate it is a fools errand based on my very extensive experience on the matter.
If the average person wasn't so below average it would be easier to provide instructions
:rofl:
 
Phreakish said:
Car stuff isn't IKEA, most systems are pretty much the same and everyone modifies their car differently. Trying to cover every way in which someone might have modified their car prior to the latest gizmo is simply more work than it's worth.
Documentation costs a TON of money. Lots of smaller shops simply cannot invest in good instructions. Expecting someone to know the basics isn't too much. A first time install will always have a learning curve and trying to eliminate it is a fools errand based on my very extensive experience on the matter.
If the average person wasn't so below average it would be easier to provide instructions
:rofl:
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Maybe people that are jaded and miserable shouldn't be the ones that write the instructions or set company policy.
 
If your job is to write a good, concise set of instructions, do your job.

If the end user chooses to ignores good, concise instructions, that is their failure to do their job.
 
Kern Dog said:
What the hell has happened to these companies? How much money are they saving by not including a good set of instructions in the package?
Here's the problem:
A man goes to install an ice maker in his fridge.
A man goes to install a garage door opener.
A man goes to install a porch light.
A man goes to install a new brake booster.
Every one of those guys gets the parts he needs, then gets home and opens the box to find either:
Meager instructions.
NO instructions other than to go to the manufacturers website to download instructions.
That is it.
This is bullshit. Not everyone has installed those parts numerous times where they are completely familiar with it all and need no help. SOME people are doing it for the first time and need direction.
This has happened twice to me in one week.
First, I bought a vacuum booster, linkage and reinforcement plate for a 66-70 B body Mopar. I have never installed this specific kit before. ZERO instructions were in the box.
During the installation, I encountered a few issues that would have been a LOT easier IF the vendor would have included a few pages of instructions.
Today I was going through the incomplete instructions for a Vintage Air kit for another 66-70 B body. This time there were instructions but they are horrible. They include NO clear measurements on where to drill holes in the firewall to mount the evaporator/fan unit. The aftermarket kit uses a non stock unit with mounting holes in different locations. Do these idiots think their customers are mind readers?
Sure...a decent tech can muddle through and figure it out but why make things difficult for your customers?
I installed a Classic Auto Air kit in my Charger in 2019 and those instructions, while not perfect, were much better than the ones included in the Vintage Air kit.
This is shitty business practice. These pricks need to be told that it will not be tolerated.
I'm not a fan of the brush off that some companies do....go to our website and download the instructions....
Here is a better idea. YOU download them and put them in the box with the parts.
You know, like decent companies used to do.
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Have you bitched at the manufacturer in question or do you just like to rant? This thread isn't fixing anything!
 
toolmanmike said:
Have you bitched at the manufacturer in question or do you just like to rant? This thread isn't fixing anything!
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Threads like this exist even when great instructions are provided.
Which is why great instructions are now rare.
:lol:
 
Kern Dog said:
Maybe people that are jaded and miserable shouldn't be the ones that write the instructions or set company policy.
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ROI is a thing.
If instructions had value, they'd still get written.

The world would be awesome if we all got great documentation and amazing support for our exact situation for everything we ever bought.
But in reality people are cheap, lazy, and entitled. We live in the world created by the mean (in the statistical sense, not as in cruel). I hate it too, doesn't change a thing.
 
toolmanmike said:
Have you bitched at the manufacturer in question or do you just like to rant? This thread isn't fixing anything!
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Excellent question.
I have complimented forum sponsors that I've done business with that have done well and I have called out those that need improvement.
As far as direct contact with these companies, I do intend to do just that.
I've had enough of bad business.
I agree, many guys do toss out whatever paperwork is in the box but I'm guessing that many of them struggle like hell when a few minutes reading would have saved them the troubles they are having.
I am not like that. I read and research before starting most projects. I want to know what pitfalls are ahead.
 
It's probably best to just follow the pictures.
Picture it in your mind.
 
fishmens67 said:
Are there any " How To" instructions for the first time. lol
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I should say I'm not dumping on OP. He sounds capable but frustrated. I do get it.

But I live in both worlds and there are so many people that don't understand what it looks like for those of us who bust our *** for our customers only to get crapped on or see them boast about buying someone's rip off and thinking they somehow beat the system.

I wish I could document every single thing that impacts an install, or go into detail about why I design things the way I do in so many cases, but in reality more information given to a customer typically turns into more hatred or vitriol (it's consistent!). There's reasons behind every decisions and it's rarely made with malice despite people's assumptions. Now simple and minimum is what we publish and if there's and issue, make contact.

An honest and polite query often goes miles and gets tremendous help. Assume the worst and that's often what gets reciprocated.
 
Phreakish said:
I do mean it. It doesn't matter how foolproof we make anything, the majority are simply bigger fools.
The cost of making detailed manuals is often higher than development a good product, and if that manual doesn't save enough in customer service costs then it's simply a waste of cash.
Click to expand...
By this logic, the installation of the A/C system here from Vintage air should be different in EVERY 68 Plymouth simply because it isn't worth the time for the vendor to write decent instructions?
No. If the kit has parts that are common to all their kits and the parts are to be assembled to a production car, they can make detailed instructions that actually help.
To just leave it up to interpretation for every installation is piss poor business.
In 2019 when I was installing the Classic Auto Air in my Charger, I looked at other 68-70 B bodies at car shows and gatherings. There was a pathetic variance in appearance, placement of lines, parts and hoses in the cars that I saw. Some setups were far cleaner than what was shown in my instructions. Others looked clunky, awkward and more like a poorly planned installation that wasn't well thought out. I chose to route my lines in a much cleaner fashion so there goes yet another variation from the diagram.
Yes, there are ham fisted dipshits with false confidence that can fumble and figure out the job but that isn't the entire buying market.
These are not custom cars where every component is massaged and made specifically for this "one of one" car.
I'm talking aftermarket medium production parts designed to fit specific models.

If I was a cop, I'd probably have a hard boiled opinion of the public after dealing with the worst people for years on a day to day basis.
I am just one guy here...I am quite capable of figuring out this stuff and I rarely have to step away and ask for help....BUT helpful guidance in print beforehand would save me SO many cuss words, insults, scared pets running from the shop and a few online complaint threads like this one.
As a Carpenter, I would make notes of obstacles and problems on jobs where we built the same thing many times. The act of saving time and frustration is worth it for me. I want to focus on the quality of the build, not spend unnecessary time struggling to assemble something.
 
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Just poking at the dog.
It's all good, he has a sense of humor.:)
 
Bobacuda said:
If your job is to write a good, concise set of instructions, do your job.

If the end user chooses to ignores good, concise instructions, that is their failure to do their job.
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It's no longer part of the job because people are too dumb to use an extension cord and hang themselves.

If it's not obvious, my words are over the top, but it's not an exaggeration to state that dumb people have a massively outsized impact on how companies and mfgs approach retail offerings.

It's also no exaggeration to state that revenue is up by doing so. The stupid tend to self select out of the market when we don't try to make it easy and that has saved us man years in customer service topics for people that only survive due warning labels.
 
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Kern Dog said:
By this logic, the installation of the A/C system here from Vintage air should be different in EVERY 68 Plymouth simply because it isn't worth the time for the vendor to write decent instructions?
No. If the kit has parts that are common to all their kits and the parts are to be assembled to a production car, they can make detailed instructions that actually help.
To just leave it up to interpretation for every installation is piss poor business.
In 2019 when I was installing the Classic Auto Air in my Charger, I looked at other 68-70 B bodies at car shows and gatherings. There was a pathetic variance in appearance, placement of lines, parts and hoses in the cars that I saw.
Yes, there are ham fisted dipshits with false confidence that can fumble and figure out the job but that isn't the entire buying market.
These are not custom cars where every component is massaged and made specifically for this "one of one" car.
I'm talking aftermarket medium production parts designed to fit specific models.
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How many kits do you think go into an exactly bone stock factory car of the same options package? I'd guess one did. What about if it had factory ac? What about various stereo or radio installs? Has it been converted from a slant to a V8? Does it have replacement sheetmetal anywhere? Are they running stock pullies? Is the windshield in or out? Doe sit have factory heater and fuel lines? Headers? Aftermarket ignition?

All of these things can have an unforseen impact. How many should the Mfg document? What pitfalls should they identify ahead of time? Be grateful a "kit" even exists. I bet guys with edsels wish there was a kit for them.. (I have no idea if there is, you get the point).

The Mopar market is already tiny compared to any other make. It's a tall order to ask a company to document all manner of known or unknown variations that might impact asy. How they might suggest to make the needed modifications might also not be how you want to do it.

Call them and ask, I bet they could explain it quicker than anyone could write it, and definitely quicker than trying to correct someone who has misread the manual already.
 
Anything to do with customer service with just about everybody out there is circling the drain. There are very few vendors with good service anymore. Once they get your money, that's the end of it.
 
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