Hope taller tires won't hurt pinion angle too much

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RockinRobin

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I've been racing Hoosier 29 x 12 -15 slicks for years. I just switched to Hoosier 32 x 14 -15 with a softer compound. Looking for better hook at tracks with marginal prep. I'm hoping that lifting the rear end 1 1/2" doesn't jack with my pinion angle.
 
You might want to put an angle finder on it, just for peace of mind.
 
Pinion angle has nothing to do with tire size . It is the difference between the front /rear ujoint angles
 
Pretty sure that is correct, the taller tire will change your % of rise. The car should separate more.
 
I've been racing Hoosier 29 x 12 -15 slicks for years. I just switched to Hoosier 32 x 14 -15 with a softer compound. Looking for better hook at tracks with marginal prep. I'm hoping that lifting the rear end 1 1/2" doesn't jack with my pinion angle.

As far as pinion angle goes, 1.5 inches of lift is super minimal.
Besides, lifting the rear changes both front and rear angles, so they still match like they should.
 
Pretty sure that is correct, the taller tire will change your % of rise. The car should separate more.
Before Calvert split mono leaf and correct shock setting, the rear end would rise and the tires would bounce.
When you hit the throttle now the axle comes down as the slicks are planted into the track.
 
Tire size has not one narry thing to do with pinion angle. Nuthin, zero, zilch.
 
This is why we have so much trouble setting pinion angles (driveline angles..). It has nothing to do with IF the car is level . It is the difference between the trany to diveshaft vs angle of pinion to driveshaft . The car could be upside down !
Then there is also the negative vs positive aspect which is tuff to wrap your head around….
 
This is why we have so much trouble setting pinion angles (driveline angles..). It has nothing to do with IF the car is level . It is the difference between the trany to diveshaft vs angle of pinion to driveshaft . The car could be upside down !
Then there is also the negative vs positive aspect which is tuff to wrap your head around….
Yup. Throw the car in the ditch upside down. All that matters is one thing. That the rear suspension is at static ride height.
 
I agree with furry stump.
I don't think the extra height will change the pinion angle.
It WILL change (slightly) your instant center in regards to the anti-squat line and center of gravity .
How much it will change, I don't know. You might have to play with shock settings and Calvert bar settings (again).
I'd sure run it with no changes except for the tires, first.
 
I've never heard pinion angle concerns with tire height. And we've been playing with that since the beginning. Angle should remain constant.
 
Please explain this to me . Maybe I am not visualizing this correctly?
So, the % of rise is a number used to illustrate how hard the rear axle separates from the car on launch. Higher % number the harder the rear axle is thrown down into the track and separates from the car. You need to know three points of reference to determine the %. Changing the location of any one point will make the axle separate harder or softer. Say you have your tire pressure dialed in for a perfect pattern, but on launch, you compress the tire, but because it is too aggressive. The tire bounces and unloads. This is the hook, roll 1-2 feet and spin. You’ll see the tire sidewall bulge, then the bulge will go away. You can try to adjust the shock to limit or stop the bounce. (Not so easy to do) or lower the % of rise to soften and delay your initial hit. That is the wonder of the 4 link an almost infinitely adjustable instant center. The three points are, your instant center, your center of gravity, and the center of the rear tire contact patch front to back. With stock leaf spring car without any Caltrac type device. Your instant center is the bolt for the front spring eye. The third point is harder to determine, but is not REALLY necessary to know exactly where the center of gravity is. Take a picture of your car from the side. Draw a line through the shifter ball, parallel with the ground. Then draw a line from the center of the tire contact patch through your front spring eye. Your two lines will intersect. That is you “base” % of rise. Move one or more of the points and the intersection will move forward or back in relation to the car. Move it backward and it hits harder faster and separates more. Move it forward and you soften, slow the separation. Why a taller tire changes it? The center of gravity point moves very slightly forward with the change in stance. View the instant center as a fixed point just for example. Then move the contact patch down 1”. That moves you % or rise intersection rearward. Hits harder. Determine what you what it to do, and move one of the points accordingly. I just realized the posters car has Caltracs, that “moves” your instant center. Haven’t played with them, but my guess is a line through the axle center line and the front spring eye and through the bar. Where they intersect is probably you new instant center.
 
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Rockin’s axle position within the car has not changed. So static pinion angle will be the same. During launch, I would expect the angle to increase if it in fact does separate more.
 
I missed the part about raising the rear end . I thought he was saying the taller tire would raise the rear…. So it depends on how you raise the rear end .

The question is “will your car be faster with the bigger tires?)
They will add rotating mass and the overall ratio of the rear gearing. Unless you are blowing the tires off you may actually lose some 60ft ??
Just thinking out loud here .
 
I missed the part about raising the rear end . I thought he was saying the taller tire would raise the rear…. So it depends on how you raise the rear end .

The question is “will your car be faster with the bigger tires?)
They will add rotating mass and the overall ratio of the rear gearing. Unless you are blowing the tires off you may actually lose some 60ft ??
Just thinking out loud here .
It might be a little slower on a well prepped track. But Rockin is looking for more hook on a POOR track. I'm pretty sure it will hook better with bigger tires on the poor track. Incrementals could still be off, but if the 60 is much better......?
And, who knows? It might like less rpm in the lights!
 
Tire size has not one narry thing to do with pinion angle. Nuthin, zero, zilch.
That's right. Unless he put extended shackles or did some **** with the springs taller tires ain't doing anything but taking away gear ratio and squatability
 
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Furry stump covered it, but if you want to do more research, I heartily recommend KevinWilsonsbc on you tube. He covers EVERYTING suspension related for drag cars whether slicks, drag radials, four link, ladders or leafs. And. everything else.
 
I missed the part about raising the rear end . I thought he was saying the taller tire would raise the rear…. So it depends on how you raise the rear end .

The question is “will your car be faster with the bigger tires?)
They will add rotating mass and the overall ratio of the rear gearing. Unless you are blowing the tires off you may actually lose some 60ft ??
Just thinking out loud here .
That would assume I want my bracket car to be faster. I've been losing a lot of rounds because of spinning on marginal tracks. It is never an issue on tracks with good prep. I will gladly trade a little slower for more consistent.
 
Spinning right at the hit or the tire sets and then spins after a rotation or two? I’d be curious to see a video of how it spins.
 
That would assume I want my bracket car to be faster. I've been losing a lot of rounds because of spinning on marginal tracks. It is never an issue on tracks with good prep. I will gladly trade a little slower for more consistent.
So you are looking for consistency? That makes sense …
 
That would assume I want my bracket car to be faster. I've been losing a lot of rounds because of spinning on marginal tracks. It is never an issue on tracks with good prep. I will gladly trade a little slower for more consistent.
Do you have a copy of the latest edition of The Mopar Performance Suspension manual? If not, you need to get one. The ninth edition is the latest.
 
Spinning right at the hit or the tire sets and then spins after a rotation or two? I’d be curious to see a video of how it spins.
On tracks with bad prep it spins right at the hit. If it hooked and spun after a rotation or two I can eliminate that with tire pressure, shock setting or both.
 
On tracks with bad prep it spins right at the hit. If it hooked and spun after a rotation or two I can eliminate that with tire pressure, shock setting or both.


Any chance you have a video of the tire at the hit??

I took a video a few years ago of a tire on the hit and then through the gears (4 speed car) and I’d love to post it and explain what’s happening BUT I took the video without the guy knowing.

I tried to track him down twice at the same race to show him the video and ask him if I can show it publicly. But I didn’t see him this year.

What I don’t want to do is post a video of his car, critique it and have him or someone else see it and tell him about it and he take that as me being critical of him.

A properly shot video of the tire/suspension is even better than just standing there watching the run.

I’m not a big fan of going to bigger tires very often.
 
So, without changing how hard you launch and it spinning instantly. I like more tire. I would just watch for more body separation and or a change in how the front tops out.
 
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