How much would you pay for a modern tech 15" 60 series performance streetable tire?

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MRGTX

MRGTX

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It's not hard to understand why 15" tires are all but dried up and the only performance applications are in import car sizes (40-50 series) or they're straight up drag radials that aren't built for cornering. While a lot of you guys have figured out how to make 17" wheels work on your Abodies, there are many of us who will always prefer the look of a stock (or at least period-correct) 15" package. But boy do our options suck in those sizes.

Top tier modern DOT performance tires like the Michelin Pilot Super Sports aren't cheap. Typically, they start around $250/tire depending on your size range. The 285/35/19s 200 treadwear rollers on my Mustang were over $300 each...but compared to even the stock Pirelli PZero summer compound tires that came on the car, the new tires are astonishing in the curves and when hooking up in a straight line. They have proven to be worth every penny.

While there are obvious cornering challenges with a 60 series sidewall, there is enormous room for improvement over the current options since the remaining 15" tires on the market are not benefitting from the march of progress, thanks to low volume and the straight line oriented priorities of the customers who DO run 15s.

Would you be interested in a modern tech, summer compound 15" <300 treadwear 60 series tire? Why or why not?

How much would you be willing to shell out? How quickly would you ditch your BFG Radial T/A "no-season" tires? :D
 
There are at least 1,14715" tires designed for passenger cars and/or passenger car competition.

Specify the exact size or sizes you are looking for and we can move forward. I'm hard pressed to believe none of them will fit the bill.

I'm also curious, because you said period correct, what wheels you plan to run and if you want black wall or white walls, white lettered, red line tires, etc?
 
I'm still running 14" on all 4 corners but I think over the winter I'm gonna have to bite the bullet & look at a larger wheel. I was thinking about going to a 15" but if tires are dwindling like the 14" then that may not be the route to go.
 
How about an all season 15" 60 series tire with modern tread, 130mph continuous speed rating and they are actually round for under 75 bucks each?
I run these on my car and noticed a MAJOR improvement in traction and cornering.
Also heard (not verified myself yet) that they are rotatable side to side.
I was skeptical of course but figured I'd give them a try and really like them, as like I said they stay round:D and very quiet on the road.
They are made by Sumitomo Rubber. (6th largest tire manufacturer)


XS4.jpg
 
roccodart440 said:
There are at least 1,14715" tires designed for passenger cars and/or passenger car competition.

Specify the exact size or sizes you are looking for and we can move forward. I'm hard pressed to believe none of them will fit the bill.

I'm also curious, because you said period correct, what wheels you plan to run and if you want black wall or white walls, white lettered, red line tires, etc?
Click to expand...

Period correct in terms of diameter. I know most of our cars came with 14" wheels...but 15" wheels were readily available.

Let's stick with something middle of the road (no pun intended ;) )
245/60/15?

DOT legal, summer compound, wide, flat tread blocks with no sipes, Z rated, sidewall designs suited for cornering.

Is there anything even close?

TrailBeast said:
How about an all season 15" 60 series tire with modern tread, 130mph continuous speed rating and they are actually round for under 75 bucks each?
I run these on my car and noticed a MAJOR improvement in traction and cornering.
Also heard (not verified myself yet) that they are rotatable side to side.
I was skeptical of course but figured I'd give them a try and really like them, as like I said they stay round:D and very quiet on the road.
They are made by Sumitomo Rubber. (6th largest tire manufacturer)
Click to expand...

I have no doubt that these are pretty decent tires but they're still all-seasons, aka "no-seasons." :D In any case, these will sacrifice surface area for wet road performance and tread compound for cold weather use.
 
On 2 of my cars I run continental extreme contact DWS tires. They are unreal in the rain and on dry roads they handle great in the corners. The one car is a 91' Volvo 240 with 225/50/16's on 8.5" corvette wheels. They other is an Audi A4 on 18" BBS wheels. I forget what size tires is on the Audi.

volvo.jpg


audi wheels.png
 
I guess..I don't see an issue with an all season tire if it gets the job done. If it won't get the job done on the street, you have a chassis problem, not a tire problem. Like I said, I run all seasons on 2 of my cars. You'll run out of balls before they run out of tire on either of those cars. My old BMW MC40 would pick up the rear inside tire on the street and that had all seasons on it.

Don't think I'm knocking your car by saying this but how hard are you really pushing that duster through the corners on the street? Does it ever see road course or Auto-X time? Hoosier makes tires in the size you want for that application but they aren't really for DOT use although they are rated DOT legal. They are borderline slicks for road course and Auto X.

What mods have you done to improve the handling of your car? AlterKtion? Facotry style upgrades?

Here is a friend of mine who autocrosses his car. It's the same car I posted above but he runs a little bigger tire than I do. check out this all season performance!

130210435_NlxCoUOJ.jpg
 
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Problem is the front. With a 15" rim you can't really get enough backspace to run any kind of decent width. Maybe if you could get a 245/55/15 on a 15x8 with a 5" backspace to work up front, but you'd need exactly the right rim to make that backspace work without hitting the suspension. Usually around 4.75" you start running into problems with suspension clearance and that won't clear 245's to the fender. I suppose a 235/55/15 would work better as that could be put on a 15x7", but that's only a 25.2" tire. And then if you go 235/60/15 you get a 26.1" tall tire, which is pushing it because of turning clearance on the lower front corner of the wheel opening with the backspaces you'd get. Maybe a 235/60/15 on a 15x7 with 4.5" of backspace, probably give you enough room that any mods to the lower front corner would be minor. But now you've still only got a 235 up front.

As for the tires, yeah, there are some track tires available in 15" that will work, but not even all of the autoX and road course classes allow them. Most of the popular classes that are fairly easy for the beginner/layperson to do, like CAM or even Optima, limit you to a 200 treadwear tire. So, it has to be a street tire, not just technically DOT legal. Most of the track tires are rated 100 or below for treadwear.

This is why 17's are so nice. 17x8's, 5.25" backspace, run 245/45/17's all the way around. Throw in a set of 1.03" torsion bars, front and rear sway bars and a set of Bilstein's and you're a corner carving mo-chine with a pretty limited amount of modifications, all reversible and none really all that noticeable (other than the 17's). Honestly, with the right tire height even the 17's aren't that noticeable, I've had to tell people I have 17's on my Challenger. And it's not just about how hard you corner on the street, better tire compounds mean better stopping distances and better crash avoidance, so when that Prius cuts you off while you're cruising slowly to Dairy Queen you don't take it out because your hockey pucks locked up and sent you sliding into the back of it.
 
roccodart440 said:
I guess..I don't see an issue with an all season tire if it gets the job done. If it won't get the job done on the street, you have a chassis problem, not a tire problem. Like I said, I run all seasons on 2 of my cars. You'll run out of balls before they run out of tire on either of those cars. My old BMW MC40 would pick up the rear inside tire on the street and that had all seasons on it.

Don't think I'm knocking your car by saying this but how hard are you really pushing that duster through the corners on the street? Does it ever see road course or Auto-X time? Hoosier makes tires in the size you want for that application but they aren't really for DOT use although they are rated DOT legal. They are borderline slicks for road course and Auto X.

What mods have you done to improve the handling of your car? AlterKtion? Facotry style upgrades?
Click to expand...

Fair point, of course. Any kind of street use should be handled by all season tires with ease. Of course, saying this publicly makes you seem like kind of person who would be happy with a Prius. ;)

Come on now...ANY car would benefit from more grip. If for nothing else, braking is dramatically improved with better/more modern rubber.

I'm starting on suspension and chassis
bracing for my car now. I'd love it if my next set of 15s were actual performance tires.

Hoosier Street TDs are a tire that I recall...but I believe that they're old school bias ply...not sure how they compare to modern radials.
 
72bluNblu said:
Problem is the front. With a 15" rim you can't really get enough backspace to run any kind of decent width. Maybe if you could get a 245/55/15 on a 15x8 with a 5" backspace to work up front, but you'd need exactly the right rim to make that backspace work without hitting the suspension. Usually around 4.75" you start running into problems with suspension clearance and that won't clear 245's to the fender. I suppose a 235/55/15 would work better as that could be put on a 15x7", but that's only a 25.2" tire. And then if you go 235/60/15 you get a 26.1" tall tire, which is pushing it because of turning clearance on the lower front corner of the wheel opening with the backspaces you'd get. Maybe a 235/60/15 on a 15x7 with 4.5" of backspace, probably give you enough room that any mods to the lower front corner would be minor. But now you've still only got a 235 up front.

As for the tires, yeah, there are some track tires available in 15" that will work, but not even all of the autoX and road course classes allow them. Most of the popular classes that are fairly easy for the beginner/layperson to do, like CAM or even Optima, limit you to a 200 treadwear tire. So, it has to be a street tire, not just technically DOT legal. Most of the track tires are rated 100 or below for treadwear.

This is why 17's are so nice. 17x8's, 5.25" backspace, run 245/45/17's all the way around. Throw in a set of 1.03" torsion bars, front and rear sway bars and a set of Bilstein's and you're a corner carving mo-chine with a pretty limited amount of modifications, all reversible and none really all that noticeable (other than the 17's). Honestly, with the right tire height even the 17's aren't that noticeable, I've had to tell people I have 17's on my Challenger. And it's not just about how hard you corner on the street, better tire compounds mean better stopping distances and better crash avoidance, so when that Prius cuts you off while you're cruising slowly to Dairy Queen you don't take it out because your hockey pucks locked up and sent you sliding into the back of it.
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You're one of the folks who has proven that 17s can be done right. As I've said before, your Challenger nails it.

17s are is probably the obvious answer but I'm interested to see who else would actually be interested in a genuine performance radial, 200 tread wear tire in the 15" size.

As for being limited to a 235 or so up front...that is definitely a limitation of A-bodies...but as we know, traction is not necessarily proportional to width to some degree. Even being front-biased, A-Bodies are relatively light cars. A good summer compound high performance 235 could take you pretty far.
 
I don't auto-cross, cuz the closest track is 3 hours away.
But I like to powerslide nearly every corner I come to, below 40 mph. I can do that because of the 275/60-15 BFG or Cooper no-stick tires. Since I'm forever turning the car with the rear end, I have found 235/60-14s adequate up front.
To get the braking I needed. I put it in the back tires. I run theKH 4 pistons up front with performance pads. And I run 10x2s out back with zero proportioning. Since this is a streeter, and the speed limit is 65, I'm in pretty good shape.
So yeah, I'd be interested in sticky 295/60-15s/325/50-15s and sticky 235/60-14s/245/50-15s; which I have custom wheels for.
But there are several things I come against that with,namely; A) I bought new spare tires several years ago. and B) I'll be 64 on Sunday, so how many more years am I gonna drive like an idiot?, and C) I'm a streeter,running under 65 mph, and D) I have a hot 367 that smokes anything to 65, and it only takes around 5 seconds.
But if I was in some type of competition, then $800 to 1000/4 would seem reasonable to me.
But, I remember these F1s I once had, man those things stuck pretty good. But the only lasted about a month, on city streets.That mighta-bin 400 or so miles! Then they were bald all the way across the threads. Slicker than slick. It was a lot of fun while it lasted ,tho
 
AJ/FormS said:
I don't auto-cross, cuz the closest track is 3 hours away.
But I like to powerslide nearly every corner I come to, below 40 mph. I can do that because of the 275/60-15 BFG or Cooper no-stick tires. Since I'm forever turning the car with the rear end, I have found 235/60-14s adequate up front.
To get the braking I needed. I put it in the back tires. I run theKH 4 pistons up front with performance pads. And I run 10x2s out back with zero proportioning. Since this is a streeter, and the speed limit is 65, I'm in pretty good shape.
So yeah, I'd be interested in sticky 295/60-15s/325/50-15s and sticky 235/60-14s/245/50-15s; which I have custom wheels for.
But there are several things I come against that with,namely; A) I bought new spare tires several years ago. and B) I'll be 64 on Sunday, so how many more years am I gonna drive like an idiot?, and C) I'm a streeter,running under 65 mph, and D) I have a hot 367 that smokes anything to 65, and it only takes around 5 seconds.
But if I was in some type of competition, then $800 to 1000/4 would seem reasonable to me.
But, I remember these F1s I once had, man those things stuck pretty good. But the only lasted about a month, on city streets.That mighta-bin 400 or so miles! Then they were bald all the way across the threads. Slicker than slick. It was a lot of fun while it lasted ,tho
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You have to admit that it's funny that while you're respectful of the 65mph speed limit, you're also steering the car with the rear wheels...which is like instant "reckless driving" infraction. :D
Don't take that as a criticism. I think it's great. I've been burning the tires and enjoying the capabilities of V8 engines since first started driving. I'm a strict rule follower in almost every category...but most of us know when we can safely push the limits a bit.

As for being a hotrodder in your 60s...jeez...does anyone think of this as old age anymore? I know 70 year olds who keep up with people in their 20s. It's just a number...you're the one who knows your own limits and it sounds like you're aware. That's all any of us can do.

It sounds like you enjoy the hell out of your Mopar...and there is something to be said for low-traction tires on cars with enough chassis composure to allow for fun/controlled sliding....but sometimes a situation calls for more grip. I agree with your $800-$1000 range. I just paid almost $700 for four 1980s tech BFG Radial T/As! I'd gladly pay more for better rubber.

Quick question: Would you mind sharing a link to these 4 piston brakes that fit into 14" wheels??
 
The Kelsey-Hays 4-piston brakes were a factory option on A-bodies,from the mid 60s to the early 70s. They are totally adequate for 65 to zero stops. I have hammered them at the track to see what they can take, and in a single stop from 100mph they have no trouble recovering between rounds. I think the ventilated rotors are just over 11".They also have no trouble hauling the car down from 100ish to 65, multiple times, and back to back.
Sometimes when I'm feeling frisky, and I "need" to pass some slowpoke on the hiway, I have been known to just stomp on it after pulling out into the passing lane.Well, as I am passing the other driver and making eye-contact, I might be going 85 or 90 mph. So after transitioning back into my lane, I might "need" to scrub off some speed. I love that car. And I love those brakes. A little stab on the pedal and 65 is back on the clock.
These KH systems often come up for sale here on FABO. There is even a fellow here the rebuilds them to "as new" condition. The kit he supplies is not cheap, but from what I remember, I thought it was good value. He supplies everything you need; calipers,rotors,brackets, spindles, and all hardware. About the only upgrade I would suggest is braided lines.And a DB master. I like the 15/16 one, to work with my mid 70s booster.
Alternatively rusty core-hulks appear here regularly which you can recondition yourself. Sometimes not all the parts are there tho. Often there are parts missing.

Yeah as to not speeding and as to sliding, I know it seems a dichotomy; I can't explain it. I know speed kills. And I know slamming into curbs while sliding breaks aluminum rims. But here's the thing. By never getting caught speeding, I have money to spend on stupid driving. I refuse to waste my safe-driving merits on speeding, when I need them for just in case I get caught for; excessive spinning of tires, or fishtailing, or some other bunk charge. So far, when the cop has pulled up my record and has seen the almost exemplary record, I have been let go with a lessor charge or let go period, or when a charge carries demerits, the cop has outright told me he was reducing it to such and such, so it wouldn't affect my record. Such nice cops we have around here. And no, I don't know a one of them,lol. But the car has been in the community since 1999, and has never been seen speeding here.
I have however received three citations for various horsings around. Never speeding.
My favorite was when I got caught doing a 200 plus foot powerslide around some grain silos on private property. When I came around the far side ,there he was parked in my sliding space. What could I do but stop.And hang my head.
So he nonchalantly walks over, and says "you got permission from the landowner to be doing this?" No sir, was my reply. To which he returned " you know you can't be doing that here then; but you do it pretty good, wait here." several minutes later he returns with my driver's license, and a ticket, and says " next time,take it outta town".
Then , he reels off all the charges he coulda pinned on me, but on account of my record, he had just charged me with this lessor charge which would not affect my record;such a sweet man.
Thank you very much sir, I said. And we parted company.
$359 thank you very much.
Why do we thank them?
 
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@MRGTX
Based on what im reading & how I'm reading it.
It sounds like your looking for a competition tire if anything. A no season tire literally. Just Track (with fake street treads?) I don't think I have ever seen such a tire in 15's.

245/60/15 is a good size tire. I use them on all 4 corners on my B body.
+/- 26-1/2 inches. There is a lot of side wall on that tire. I don't see how that size tire can make all 4 seasons or 3 seasons but still kick some *** I n a super size manor. Tires this size are ether drag radials or passenger car tires.

Can you describe the tire your thinking of in some detail? Or a link to the tire you would like it to perform like? (Ratings)
 
rumblefish360 said:
@MRGTX
Based on what im reading & how I'm reading it.
It sounds like your looking for a competition tire if anything. A no season tire literally. Just Track (with fake street treads?) I don't think I have ever seen such a tire in 15's.
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Hoosier #46526R7 245/50-15ZR R7 compound DOT Legal

hoo-46502a7.jpg
 
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225/50R15s on 15x8s 4.5"BS on all 4corners. No rubbing anywhere. Tire was to short in the back.

Currently back on 17s with 17x7s 4.2"BS with 225/45s in the front and 17x8s with 4.5"BS and 245/45s in the back. Fronts rub the fenders at lock, rears are tight but don't rub.

I ultimately wanna go back to 15x8s all around with 225/55s up front and 245/60s in the back. Sadly, there are no real good options for those tire sizes.

And I'll say this just because I feel I have too. Anybody that thinks all seasons handle great, are non drivers. Also, a car with a setup proper chassis and suspension will NEED high performance rubber! All seasons are not for serious performance cars, unless you never drive more than 3/10s!

image.jpg


image.jpg
 
72bluNblu said:
As for the tires, yeah, there are some track tires available in 15" that will work, but not even all of the autoX and road course classes allow them. Most of the popular classes that are fairly easy for the beginner/layperson to do, like CAM or even Optima, limit you to a 200 treadwear tire. So, it has to be a street tire, not just technically DOT legal. Most of the track tires are rated 100 or below for treadwear.
Click to expand...

Just an FYI there are all seasons in the 200 UTQG range. If that is good enough for an actual track driver I find it hard to believe you guys need more on the street for braking or for cornering. I run gumball tires on my street/strip car and on my circle track cars but I've never needed more on my daily cars than a high performance, properly sized tire. I've been in the winners circle, guess that makes me a "real driver".

VNTNED, that is a slick little car you have there.
 
Thanks for the compliment. It really is a piece of junk with some decent parts scattered through it.

Currently on the 17s I'm running Continental Extreme Contacts. Nothing crazy, just a good summer tire. That's all I need, I just want it in a 15" tire.

Small 15s are still out there, but unless your running a 24" or shorter tire, there's not much to choose from.
 
I'm guessing the black wheels are 15's and the silver ones are the 17's?
 
roccodart440 said:
Just an FYI there are all seasons in the 200 UTQG range. If that is good enough for an actual track driver I find it hard to believe you guys need more on the street for braking or for cornering. I run gumball tires on my street/strip car and on my circle track cars but I've never needed more on my daily cars than a high performance, properly sized tire. I've been in the winners circle, guess that makes me a "real driver".

VNTNED, that is a slick little car you have there.
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Once again, I don't disagree with you and you obviously know what you're talking about... the difference here is defining "need." :D

Even a fresh set of all-seasons would be more than enough for a non-protouring type A-Body as the weak links show up in suspension geometry, spring rates/damping performance and chassis rigidity long before the tires give out...BUT as someone who has just dropped the first $800 out of undoubtedly thousands on my chassis and suspension upgrades, it just chaps my butt to pay performance tire money for 1980s era all-season tires with hard compound, gobs of "negative space" and squirmy tread blocks.

While circle track driving is obviously an art all its own, autocross, road course, general back road hooliganism have different demands for a tire. For example, I've been happy in my Mustang with the Potenza RE-11s (200 tread wear)...which are also a fairly well regarded autocross tire...or at least they were as recently as a couple years back. I'm not confident at all that they would be suitable for circle track use, even compared to other street/"ultra performance" tires.

My goal for my Dart is to keep it driving like...an A-Body but with responsiveness and crispness that Mopar just couldn't (or didn't care to) offer back in the day. I LOVE the way this car drove stock...it was just way too sloppy and flexible.

In my opinion, the joy from carving a corner with a properly set up front engine/rear drive/light weight V8 Coupe is just as enjoyable as ripping 100+mph in the 1/4 mile...and only in the last 4-5 years have people been serious about making that happen. Unfortunately, almost all of these folks have been ok with 17"+ tires which hasn't incentivized the industry enough to help us 15" fans out.
 
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