Inputs on a home built 318 for red light to red light fun

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Branden Finkenbinder

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Hey everyone youngster here about to built a 1970 318 for a 1965 dodge dart gt 2 door. the dart will be a all steel car 4 speed with 4.10 or 4.88 gears 8 1/4 rear stock suspension other then front disks as for motor it will be built as the following

1970 318 stock bore

KB 10.5-1 pop up pistons

273 hipo rods or some form of a lighter rod

318-3 truck crank

0.27 head gaskets

1965 273 hipo 54cc closed chamber heads with
adjustable rockers Ported as far as I can with out thin walls both exhuast and intake 3 angle valve job with 1.88 360 valves

Solid mechanical camshaft good for 7500 and up rpms

273 4 barrel intake or a d4b intake if I can get one cheap enough

Holley 750cfm double pumper

Just would like to here yalls input from those who are wiser then me as I'm only in my early 30s and this is my first on my own build
 
Let's see, stock bore with aftermarket pistons? 273 and 318 rods are the same. No need to rev any Mopar small block to 7500+. They make torque. A d4b won't bolt to your heads and if or the 273-4 manifold isn't the optimum intake for 8,000 rpm. There's 10+ pages of 318 build information. Study up and get back to us.
 
Check piston depth.
Closed chamber heads and .027 gasket may be a problem.
Get out the playdo and do some clearance testing.
 
Don’t port the heads as far as you can go for stop light drags, you need bottom end also.

how long will it last before you are in jail?

racing at the track is safer in 1,000 ways.
 
Gearing alone will make it a hoot to drive, from one gas station to the next….
 
413 said:
Don’t port the heads as far as you can go for stop light drags, you need bottom end also.

how long will it last before you are in jail?

racing at the track is safer in 1,000 ways.
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No intents to do it on the street it's just what my dad use to call these kinda cars should have explained in more detail thats the distance it would only be good for pro say
 
toolmanmike said:
Let's see, stock bore with aftermarket pistons? 273 and 318 rods are the same. No need to rev any Mopar small block to 7500+. They make torque. A d4b won't bolt to your heads and if or the 273-4 manifold isn't the optimum intake for 8,000 rpm. There's 10+ pages of 318 build information. Study up and get back to us.
Click to expand...
I thought the d4b intake was for the 64-65 heads only mine are the odd ball 2 year only heads the high reving was for the short distance and deep gearing so that it wasn't running out of top end super fast and to not have to **** every 2 seconds the stock bore pop ups was inspired by the super stock 273 from 1966 d/dart the engine build was a mash up of all the pros of performance build ive grown to love growing up and hearing about
 
Sounds like a good solid old school combo. I like it. IMO no need for stupid RPM. I think 6500 would be plenty enough to get the job done. But as mentioned, for red light to red light fun it's gonna need some short gears. I would consider 3.91 to be a starting point, and be thinking about 4.10 or even 4.30. Generally speaking red light to red light is "somewhere" in the 1/8 mile range. But it will be a REALLY fun car to drive around town in.
 
How much money do you have. I’ll go to the empty pocket program first.
Branden Finkenbinder said:
Hey everyone youngster here about to built a
1970 318 for a 1965 dodge dart gt 2 door. the dart will be a all steel car
4 speed with 4.10 or 4.88 gears 8 1/4 rear stock suspension other then front disks as for motor it will be built as the following
Click to expand...
Use 4.10’s as 4.88’s to be effective would like a lot of cam for a lot of rpm. McCloud clutch. Late year ‘79 Cordoba disc brakes.
1970 318 stock bore
KB 10.5-1 pop up pistons
adjustable rockers
Click to expand...
Use the above parts. Gasket thickness as needed. You may not need to run to the thin head gasket off the bat.

Ported as far as I can with out thin walls both exhuast and intake 3 angle valve job with 1.88 360 valves
Click to expand...
Dumb move, properly ported head. Use the ones on the engine now.
Solid mechanical camshaft good for 7500 and up rpms
Click to expand...
To broad or a statement and probably it a good idea with the below parts and cylinder heads you have or described.
273 4 barrel intake or a d4b intake if I can get one cheap enough
Click to expand...
Bad idea, go with a rpm to 6000 or so.
Just would like to here yalls input from those who are wiser
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You and your build sound like a crazy man running naked down main street in Manhattan in the snow covered in multi colored jello waving & clutching daisy flowers in one hand and a bottle of hallucinogenic drugs in a vial in the other.


How about an honest set of 318 builds the membership would use. Light to light is very general & variable on distance.
 
RustyRatRod said:
Sounds like a good solid old school combo. I like it. IMO no need for stupid RPM. I think 6500 would be plenty enough to get the job done. But as mentioned, for red light to red light fun it's gonna need some short gears. I would consider 3.91 to be a starting point, and be thinking about 4.10 or even 4.30. Generally speaking red light to red light is "somewhere" in the 1/8 mile range. But it will be a REALLY fun car to drive around town in.
Click to expand...
I see what you mean as you said yeah 8k plus is over kill I just want to be sure to hold gears long but still be able to catch all 4 in the distance I was thinking hard on the d/dart gears which were 4.86 but to find them are hard can find anyone that makes them I live in the small town of carlisle pa home of the carlisle chrysler nationals and block crusing was huge here in the 80s and 90s and I heard story's of my dad talk of there was always a guy that would come into town cruise the block and be the man to beat and it would change like the John Milner of real life but driving something around and get the feeling and vibe qould just be amazing for me I'm all about the old 50s and 60s style everything it's a huge part of me so I try to keep everything car wise to what they would have built or how they did it to those eras
 
rumblefish360 said:
Dumb move, properly ported head. Use the ones on the engine now.
Click to expand...
The ones that came on it where smog 76cc open chamber heads didn't want to use them due to want the compression up to no lower then the rated 10.5-1 heads the 3 angle and the bigger valve idea was I seen many say these heads suffocate engine that are intended to make power
 
Branden Finkenbinder said:
Hey everyone youngster here about to built a 1970 318 for a 1965 dodge dart gt 2 door. the dart will be a all steel car 4 speed with 4.10 or 4.88 gears 8 1/4 rear stock suspension other then front disks as for motor it will be built as the following

1970 318 stock bore

KB 10.5-1 pop up pistons

273 hipo rods or some form of a lighter rod

318-3 truck crank

0.27 head gaskets

1965 273 hipo 54cc closed chamber heads with
adjustable rockers Ported as far as I can with out thin walls both exhuast and intake 3 angle valve job with 1.88 360 valves

Solid mechanical camshaft good for 7500 and up rpms

273 4 barrel intake or a d4b intake if I can get one cheap enough

Holley 750cfm double pumper

Just would like to here yalls input from those who are wiser then me as I'm only in my early 30s and this is my first on my own build
Click to expand...
D4b minimum, offy dual 4 or even a performer. Figure out sensibly how large you can get the port window on the 273 head and compare to and make sure you can get the intake to match. The stock 273 4brl doesnt flow much without monitoring the work 'flowbench'. Other way would be a set of magnum heads...or 360 la heads with 1.88 and a good vj some porting and gasket matching then just use a rpm dual plane intake. 750 will work, around town the 650 will feel better below 5000 rpm but where the peak tq falls of with the 650 'around 4800-5000rpm' the 750 will carry on another 1000 rpm or so.
 
Branden Finkenbinder said:
The ones that came on it where smog 76cc open chamber heads didn't want to use them due to want the compression up to no lower then the rated 10.5-1 heads the 3 angle and the bigger valve idea was I seen many say these heads suffocate engine that are intended to make power
Click to expand...
It's not all about compression. It's also about FLOW. Getting it in and out.
 
Before you go crazy, go find your guaranteed-to-fit-a-4-speed headers, cuz for "7500 and up" you can't be running logs.
The 70 318 was a "hi-compression" engine, and with 4 series gears, for stoplight fun, in an early-A, you could actually leave the long-block totally stock.
AFAIK there are no off the shelf pistons available to run enough cylinder-pressure to support a cam for "7500 and up" ; meaning 10.5 Scr is NOT ENOUGH ratio to make enough low-rpm pressure for those times when you are just tooling around; this will force you to be down-shifting every time you have to drive over a nickel.
Consider your gearing;
With a Standard A833(2.66low), 4.88s, and 24.5" tires;
>8000rpm is 45 in first, 62 in second, 85 in third, 120 in direct.
>cruising at 32mph will be; 5700 in First/ 4100 in Second/ 3000 in Third/ 2140 in direct.
>cruising at 50mph will be; 8900 in First/ 6400 in Second/ 4700 in Third/ 3340 in Direct
>cruising at 65mph will be 4350 in Fourth.
>At WOT, with as much tire as you can fit into the stock tubs, the hi-winding 318 will likely burn right thru first gear, so guess what, 4.88s is way too much gear. Like RRR said, 3.91s is more like it, and as others have said, 8000 is probably not realistic.... because now, 8000 with 3.91s and 24.5s; top of second-gear is 78 mph.
You could pick up some bottom-end torque if you re-cam for top of Second gear = more like 65mph. That would be more like 6600 with 3.91s, and the power-peak could be an easy 400rpm less, so 6200. That's still a heckuva cam for a 318.
The 292/509 won't make it.
So at a true 10.5Scr, with a cam that is likely to be two sizes bigger than the 292, the bottom-end is still gonna be soft, possibly/probably as soft or softer, than a 2bbl 273; if that is acceptable to you, only you can decide.

Happy HotRodding
 
MOPAROFFICIAL said:
D4b minimum, offy dual 4 or even a performer. Figure out sensibly how large you can get the port window on the 273 head and compare to and make sure you can get the intake to match. The stock 273 4brl doesnt flow much without monitoring the work 'flowbench'. Other way would be a set of magnum heads...or 360 la heads with 1.88 and a good vj some porting and gasket matching then just use a rpm dual plane intake. 750 will work, around town the 650 will feel better below 5000 rpm but where the peak tq falls of with the 650 'around 4800-5000rpm' the 750 will carry on another 1000 rpm or so.
Click to expand...
I wanted to gasket match the heads and intake and the gp in and hog them both out. I can get magnum heads all day I just didn't want to go that route just simple I was always told to stay low on the head cc if running n/a
 
AJ/FormS said:
Before you go crazy, go find your guaranteed-to-fit-a-4-speed headers, cuz for "7500 and up" you can't be running logs.
Click to expand...
Was going to spend the money and get the fender well headers for that body style
AJ/FormS said:
>At WOT, with as much tire as you can fit into the stock tubs, the hi-winding 318 will likely burn right thru first gear,
Click to expand...
Had planned to radius cut the wheel wells and put a 265/60/15 on the back and let it poke out the side with super stocker leafs
AJ/FormS said:
The 70 318 was a "hi-compression" engine, and with 4 series gears, for stoplight fun, in an early-A, you could actually leave the long-block totally stock.
Click to expand...
The motor was from a 1970 power wagon so I assumed it was a 8.4 or 8.5-1 motor for torque is this wrong ?

AJ/FormS said:
AFAIK there are no off the shelf pistons available to run enough cylinder-pressure to support a cam for "7500 and up" ; meaning 10.5 Scr is NOT ENOUGH ratio to make enough low-rpm pressure for those times when you are just tooling around; this will force you to be down-shifting every time you have to drive over a nickel.
Consider your gearing;
Click to expand...
Would I still be able to get a solid cam that isn't this high in rpms ? because that was one of the main things I didn't want to do away with

AJ/FormS said:
so guess what, 4.88s is way too much gear. Like RRR said, 3.91s is more like it, and as others have said, 8000 is probably not realistic.... because now, 8000 with 3.91s and 24.5s; top of second-gear is 78 mph.
You could pick up some bottom-end torque if you re-cam for top of Second gear = more like 65mph. That would be more like 6600 with 3.91s, and the power-peak could be an easy 400rpm less, so 6200. That's still a heckuva cam for a 318.
Click to expand...
My goal was to be able to be around 4500-5k rpms in 4th gear by the time it would cross a 1/8 strip I live in a town we're the ls camaros and coyote mustangs always brag they can be touch red light to red light by a quote on quote "poop old small block". Now if I were to go 2x4 or tunnel ram would this be a different story or a different out come on the intended plans ?
AJ/FormS said:
So at a true 10.5Scr, with a cam that is likely to be two sizes bigger than the 292, the bottom-end is still gonna be soft, possibly/probably as soft or softer, than a 2bbl 273; if that is acceptable to you, only you can decide.
Click to expand...
This is what I want to avoid at all cost !!! Lol
 
RustyRatRod said:
Sounds like a good solid old school combo. I like it. IMO no need for stupid RPM. I think 6500 would be plenty enough to get the job done. But as mentioned, for red light to red light fun it's gonna need some short gears. I would consider 3.91 to be a starting point, and be thinking about 4.10 or even 4.30. Generally speaking red light to red light is "somewhere" in the 1/8 mile range. But it will be a REALLY fun car to drive around town in.
Click to expand...
3.91 on 24.5 dia tires, equivelant to 4.30
 
toolmanmike said:
Let's see, stock bore with aftermarket pistons? 273 and 318 rods are the same. No need to rev any Mopar small block to 7500+. They make torque. A d4b won't bolt to your heads and if or the 273-4 manifold isn't the optimum intake for 8,000 rpm. There's 10+ pages of 318 build information. Study up and get back to us.
Click to expand...


...but sadly not a lot of cam advice.
 
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