Is my car a Tag Job? Barracuda Decode...

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In my state, just having the * shaped rivets in your hand is grounds to go to jail.
I have a very dishonest Drimel tool in my garage. ;)
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In FL, the VIN has to match in two locations.

That makes pre-1968 cars an automatic hassle.

Fortunately out of state transfers only require a notary, so it was less hassle to explain VIN vs SO to a friend than to the cops the last time I did it.
 
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Can you see any difference between the left rivet and right one? The left one was left in place but the right one was damaged real bad by something placed on the dash. A little Drimel work and POOF. Not saying we Cloned this car, just fixed a mangled rivet.The previous owner used a screw into the right rivet to hold a bracket for a 'Fuzz-Buster'

Vin RH275551212? ;)
 
On my '65 Barracuda, there is a sequence number stamped on the floor under the cargo area platform. Left side (IIRC). Also stamped on top of the radiator support.

The radiator support stamping was under the anti-freeze label.

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eekvonzipper said:
Where???
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I can't find a good pic of the platform itself, but this is the carpet that sits on top of it. You'll have to remove the rear seat and the platform fastens to the floor. Approximately in the yellow circle was my sequence number.

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Oh hell. Now I'm gonna have to look on mine as the rear is somewhat 'available' now. When I got mine back into the CA DMV system after 17 years of hibernation in the back of a warehouse (1976 tags! ) I had to drive it to the secondary inspection area and a CHP guy gave it the once over, noted the door jam plate, looked closely at the driver dash under the window for some reason...and signed me off. When I got the new current title in the mail, it was titled as a "1993 Plymouth Barracuda" and there was a reminder that I had to have it smog checked to complete the registration! Pshhhh, I went back the next day and got it straightened out as a 1965 model year...SMOG EXEMPT! Morons!
 
OK, now I'm confused. My mom took delivery in the late fall of 1965. The dealer ordered 3 of them, all the same. The 1966 Model years was coming out and mom did not like the squarish of it.
The Barracuda was Blue with Black interior. It had Formula S badges. It has the rear defrost fan (no heat) for the back window. The radiator core support number is 5202800564 and the Vin is V852548189. No signs the core support has been replaced. I remember it had this 1966 dash too, not the 64/65 dash. Finder tag is long gone when they painted the car black

Dealer was Brewer Chrysler Plymouth in Auburn WA, a 5 Star dealer. Guys were coming from Seattle to order Hemi cars because the Seattle dealer could/would not order them. "Auburn, Little Detroit of the West"
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Dave_J said:
OK, now I'm confused. My mom took delivery in the late fall of 1965. The dealer ordered 3 of them, all the same. The 1966 Model years was coming out and mom did not like the squarish of it.
The Barracuda was Blue with Black interior. It had Formula S badges. It has the rear defrost fan (no heat) for the back window. The radiator core support number is 5202800564 and the Vin is V852548189. No signs the core support has been replaced. I remember it had this 1966 dash too, not the 64/65 dash. Finder tag is long gone when they painted the car black

Dealer was Brewer Chrysler Plymouth in Auburn WA, a 5 Star dealer. Guys were coming from Seattle to order Hemi cars because the Seattle dealer could/would not order them. "Auburn, Little Detroit of the West"
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The nimber on the core support matches the SO number on the missing fender tag and not the VIN tag.
 
Dave_J said:
OK, now I'm confused. My mom took delivery in the late fall of 1965. The dealer ordered 3 of them, all the same. The 1966 Model years was coming out and mom did not like the squarish of it.
The Barracuda was Blue with Black interior. It had Formula S badges. It has the rear defrost fan (no heat) for the back window. The radiator core support number is 5202800564 and the Vin is V852548189. No signs the core support has been replaced. I remember it had this 1966 dash too, not the 64/65 dash. Finder tag is long gone when they painted the car black

Need to read the whole thread. VIN and SEQUENCE Number or SO number are not the same on your 65. Without the fender tag or broadcast sheet to check SEQ number to the body number stamping.
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Big_John said:
On my '65 Barracuda, there is a sequence number stamped on the floor under the cargo area platform. Left side (IIRC). Also stamped on top of the radiator support.

The radiator support stamping was under the anti-freeze label.

I knew it was back there somewhere!
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eek, your VIN plate looks correct for a 1965 Barracuda 225. If you indeed have a 903 behind a 273, that's another indication that the engine was swapped out because 903's only came behind a 6cyl. A 273 should have a 745 transmission in a 3 speed manual car. There are 4 places where you can find a car's VIN your year. The driver's side door pillar official VIN tag that you have, on a certicard under the hood mounted inside a plastic sleeve attached to the inner fender, on a broadcast (build) sheet that could be dropped or stuffed just about anywhere in the car, and on the Chrysler IBM card that they may still have on file. The shipping order number is found on the fender tag, radiator core support, rear body panel (in various places depending on model), the broadcast sheet, and the IBM card. You get enough of them together and that should satisfy your questions. On the subject of getting a car registered, so much depends on your state and how anal they are on the numbers, where they are, and how they are attached. Regular rivets on a VIN tag are a definite red flag. No rivets (like our '65 and older cars) can be a red flag too with people too young to know the truth. I've bought cars were the VIN tag was gone and they used the shipping order number off the fender tag! I've had DMV VIN verifiers reject an official tag because it didn't have enough digits to satisfy their computerized format. There again, they're used to modern cars that have a zillion digits that practically tell you the paint color. You just never know what kind of knucklehead you're going to get at the DMV, so, best to have all your ducks in a row and the knowledge of what is original and what isn't. Having and using rosette rivets isn't a crime (at least here in Ca) if they're used legitimately. Body shops remove and replace them all the time while doing repairs. On your car, if it were me, I'd remove those rivets and glue the plate on.
 
Most if the "experts" online were not alive or were pooping their pants when the engine # was used as the number on a title or registration. I was... So using their writings as fact dies not make them correct.

I had a salesman license in 1972. Worked at a Chrysler Plymouth store in the used car dept then sold cars at night up front.

I have bought and sold well over 50 vintage cars over the last 30 years. I have dealt with bad title/ no title deals before. The local state cop used to call me when he needed to find a " hidden number" when he was inspecting an old home built hot rod or fresh barn find without any paperwork.

I remember going to a local motorcycle shop to help him inspect a hot rod pickup that was built from leftover parts...50's Ford front suspension, early Ford frame rails, 40's Chevy Body... You know the drill.

When I saw the '34 Ford frame rails I knew where to find the serial number...just ahead of the firewall in top of the frame.... #34-***. Merle the trooper was confused.... It had a Chevy body and engine but we agreed it was a '34 Ford!

So dont use WIKI as your final source for all if your answers. Better to find a old bastard like me to set you straight.

Maybe we should really blow this up and start a conversation about cars not having titles just registration slips... yes millions of cars were sold and legally owned without having a title. Called " pink slips" in CA. My '88 F350 never had a title until I brought it back from Wyrmryder' s house in 2015.


BTW... All Mopars of the era had hand stamped two digit body numbers before the raised serial numbers. The serial number plates were given to a line worker who hand stamped those first two digits on the car at the end of the assembly line. The number was stamped to match the body style.

Now back to our regularly scheduled programming....
 
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Georgia I know did not have auto titles until 1963. My parents moved to Georgia from Florida in 1967. Could not get a Georgia title for their 62 Dodge convertible, even though it had a Florida title. And for cars 63 or newer that had titles when new, once they were 12 years old, ownership could be transferred without transferring title. All you needed was a tag receipt and a bill of sale. In fact, the local tag office would discourage you from transferring the title. And once ownership was transferred without a title, you couldn't get one later. When I moved from Georgia back to Florida in 1994, half my cars didn't have titles. But I was able to title them in Florida.
 
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cudamark said:
You just never know what kind of knucklehead you're going to get at the DMV, so, best to have all your ducks in a row
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It's really funny, when I bought my Barracuda, the PO told me of the issues he had registering the car in Connecticut because an inspector was looking for another VIN location. IIRC, he managed to get it done after showing some documentation that there isn't another VIN.

Fast forward a couple years and I buy the car and bring it to New York State. I've been there, done that, with out of state cars, including Connecticut, so my butt was tighter than a ducks when it came to the paperwork. I even print out the instructions from the website so I can refer to them if I need to.

I did the usual drill, had ALL the paperwork filled out neatly beforehand, dressed nicely, big smile with a "Good morning, how are you today?" when I walked up to the window. A guy that looked to be in his fifties sat there and I thought I had it made... First thing that threw him was no title. He hands the paperwork back to me... "No title, can't do this". I push it back and tell him it's a 1965 model and there was no titles then. He starts to push it back and I notice the "trainee" on his name badge. I say "I have the procedure from the NYS DMV website right here, but why don't you get your supervisor and we'll get this straightened out". So, the supervisor says to me, "I'm going to show him how to look this up if you don't mind". "No problem, take your time" with a smile.

So... Long story short, he gets an edumacation on non titled cars. She leaves and he starts to write it up. He says this car is so old, the make isn't listed and I have to type it in. Turned out he was spelling Plymouth wrong and I got the registration and it said "Plynouth" on it. He was being real nice to me though and said he learned a lot. Didn't realize the mistake until I was home and I kind of forgot about it, really not wanting anymore of the DMV "experience".

When the registration came due, I went back in to the DMV to get it fixed. Walked up to the counter and smiled etc. but was bracing myself. The woman at the counter looked at it and understood the problem right away. Turned out she owns a '65 Mustang herself! She asked for an alternate ID besides my license and I gave her my CCW. Turned out she did shooting and we got talking about that while she fixed it and got the new registration paperwork printed. Interesting few minutes spent at the DMV.
 
Krooser said:
Most if the "experts" online were not alive or were pooping their pants when the engine # was used as the number on a title or registration. I was... So using their writings as fact dies not make them correct.

I had a salesman license in 1972. Worked at a Chrysler Plymouth store in the used car dept then sold cars at night up front.

I have bought and sold well over 50 vintage cars over the last 30 years. I have dealt with bad title/ no title deals before. The local state cop used to call me when he needed to find a " hidden number" when he was inspecting an old home built hot rod or fresh barn find without any paperwork.

I remember going to a local motorcycle shop to help him inspect a hot rod pickup that was built from leftover parts...50's Ford front suspension, early Ford frame rails, 40's Chevy Body... You know the drill.

When I saw the '34 Ford frame rails I knew where to find the serial number...just ahead of the firewall in top of the frame.... #34-***. Merle the trooper was confused.... It had a Chevy body and engine but we agreed it was a '34 Ford!

So dont use WIKI as your final source for all if your answers. Better to find a old bastard like me to set you straight.

Maybe we should really blow this up and start a conversation about cars not having titles just registration slips... yes millions of cars were sold and legally owned without having a title. Called " pink slips" in CA. My '88 F350 never had a title until I brought it back from Wyrmryder' s house in 2015.


BTW... All Mopars of the era had hand stamped two digit body numbers before the raised serial numbers. The serial number plates were given to a line worker who hand stamped those first two digits on the car at the end of the assembly line. The number was stamped to match the body style.

Now back to our regularly scheduled programming....
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Yes some old cars were titled by the engine number and yes the early Ford cars had the number on the left frame rail as you said but your general statements so far that 65 and earlier did not come with a VIN number/tag are incorrect but not everyone is an internet jockey and uses WIKI as you say. I will end the conversations with you at this point because after reading this you are too smart for the rest of us peasants with actual knowledge before this internet thing came out. All hail the king Krooser he knows everything.
 
Krooser said:
Most if the "experts" online were not alive or were pooping their pants when the engine # was used as the number on a title or registration. I was... So using their writings as fact dies not make them correct.
I had a salesman license in 1972. Worked at a Chrysler Plymouth store in the used car dept then sold cars at night up front.
I have bought and sold well over 50 vintage cars over the last 30 years. I have dealt with bad title/ no title deals before. The local state cop used to call me when he needed to find a " hidden number" when he was inspecting an old home built hot rod or fresh barn find without any paperwork.
I remember going to a local motorcycle shop to help him inspect a hot rod pickup that was built from leftover parts...50's Ford front suspension, early Ford frame rails, 40's Chevy Body... You know the drill.
When I saw the '34 Ford frame rails I knew where to find the serial number...just ahead of the firewall in top of the frame.... #34-***. Merle the trooper was confused.... It had a Chevy body and engine but we agreed it was a '34 Ford!

So dont use WIKI as your final source for all if your answers. Better to find a old bastard like me to set you straight.
Maybe we should really blow this up and start a conversation about cars not having titles just registration slips... yes millions of cars were sold and legally owned without having a title. Called " pink slips" in CA. My '88 F350 never had a title until I brought it back from Wyrmryder' s house in 2015.

BTW... All Mopars of the era had hand stamped two digit body numbers before the raised serial numbers. The serial number plates were given to a line worker who hand stamped those first two digits on the car at the end of the assembly line. The number was stamped to match the body style.
Now back to our regularly scheduled programming....
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LET ME TURN ON MY HEARING AID. Now, say that again.

Been buying cars since 1972. Bikes from 1968. In the US Army in 1973.....
First retirement in 1994.
Second retirement in 2015, this one stuck. Work is a 4 letter word. Remember, Re-Tired just means tired again.
 
Dave_J said:
LET ME TURN ON MY HEARING AID. Now, say that again.

Been buying cars since 1972. Bikes from 1968. In the US Army in 1973.....
First retirement in 1994.
Second retirement in 2015, this one stuck. Work is a 4 letter word. Remember, Re-Tired just means tired again.
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I tell everyone that retirement was the best career move I ever did.
 
My 65 dropped out of the Cali DMV so they issued me another pink when I registered it. When I got the registration in the mail it was a 1994 Plymouth Barracuda and required a smog cert! I got that fixed ASAP with a visit to the local CHP branch. Lazy Dumb Phucks at the CA DMV....why are they all fat?
 
RustyRatRod said:
Have you looked for a build sheet under the rear seat?
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My 66 Valiant had 2 1/2 build sheets, one under the back seat, one taped to the backside of the glove box liner behind the dash and half under the carpet! Sometimes they had a sheet behind the bucket seat back too....also heard of them behind door panels and kick panels in some cases, depends how lazy the person was who was putting the sheets in the cars that day
 
Never Figured Out what it Really is... Doesn't Matter, I kept goin' on it anyway. Still Love it!

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My Lady Calls It, "Early Bankruptcy"... Bodywork Starts in the Spring!
 
I agree that someone didn't have a title for a V8 Barracuda but had one and the VIN plate for a six cyl car.

The fender tag you have matches the build of the car, right?

Technically that IS "VIN tampering" which is quite illegal.

Probably not gonna get called on it though unless someone in DMV or LEO really knows their pre-1968 Mopars.

Replacing a damaged rivet is NOT "tampering".
 
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