Is this to much cam

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How will you be using the truck? Drag racing? Hauling firewood? What trans?

Are you wanting to stock with stock valve springs to keep costs down, or are spring upgrades and option? If the springs can be upgraded, then faster cam profiles can be used to help it breath while keeping shorter duration.

Is the original engine? If so, I am thinking it would have even lower compression then the typically low car 318's. So that may play into this.

BTW, good move the change cams to take some better advantage of the parts you have already added.
 
The truck is mostly a cruiser, might haul a couch from time to time. It has a 727 and 3.50ish gears. I suppose a more conservative cam would be best but dang I love the lopey sound. The 318 is stock original with about 80 k. I wont be changing springs at this time.
Bob
 
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Stock 340 cam was a;
208/214 - .429 - .444 lift - 114

So that cam would be a 1/2 step smaller if you could even push it that far. LMAO
 
gerty said:
The truck is mostly a cruiser, might haul a couch from time to time. It has a 727 and 3.50ish gears. I suppose a more conservative cam would be best but dang I love the lopey sound. The 318 is stock original with about 80 k. I wont be changing springs at this time.
Bob
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OK, with the stock 318 springs, I'd not be pushing anything that revs high and lift maybe to .440" max, and keeping the ramps sloooooow. I think willrun318's cam is more on target; knarly idles come with a cost when your CR is low to start with.

I know I would change the springs and go with a faster ramp.... preserve that low RPM torque for when you decide to haul 2 couches.. or pull a boat up out of Dale Hollow!

I had lunch at the Pizza Hut in Burkesville not too long ago....
 
nm9stheham said:
OK, with the stock 318 springs, I'd not be pushing anything that revs high and lift maybe to .440" max, and keeping the ramps sloooooow. I think willrun318's cam is more on target; knarly idles come with a cost when your CR is low to start with.

I know I would change the springs and go with a faster ramp.... preserve that low RPM torque for when you decide to haul 2 couches.. or pull a boat up out of Dale Hollow!

I had lunch at the Pizza Hut in Burkesville not too long ago....
Click to expand...
Small world, we spent the night in Waynesboro a couple of weeks ago. We were traveling on The Blue Ridge Parkway. Thanks for all the help. I'm ordering the modest cam and better springs.
 
Your biggest mistake might be re-using the stock springs. They weren't made for high performance when new and now their 40 yrs. old with 80,000 miles on them. BAD move in my opinion
 
Bah humhad bug on all those new Springs your wasting your money. I've never broken Mopar spring in a small block putting a bigger cam in. My current cam is at least a 450 lift according to my cheap Harbor Freight Micrometer? With some old Springs I found somewhere I threw in there. I was bouncing that thing off the rev limiter all day last Sunday at the Mopar Nationals LOL give me a break with the new Springs. We're not talking some high-dollar machine precision blueprinted and balanced motor here?To me the op is just trying to get some horsepower for funsies it looks like.
In the meantime, look for a $150 - 440 on Craigslist and put it on a motor stand and stare at it for a while and you'll get some ideas :thumbsup:
If I had a mopar truck I'd be thinking big block.
 
2012-10-21_14.08.11.jpeg
I really liked my 86 4 by 4, but the couch was almost too much of a load for it LOL it was like the worst truck as far as the truck goes that I ever had in my life, but the funnest truck as far as a hot rod kind of truck. Actually I
miss that truck, just had to many trucks at the time and the one that couldn't make $ had to go...
2012-10-21_14.49.18.jpeg
 
j par said:
Bah humhad bug on all those new Springs your wasting your money. I've never broken Mopar spring in a small block putting a bigger cam in. My current cam is at least a 450 lift according to my cheap Harbor Freight Micrometer? With some old Springs I found somewhere I threw in there. I was bouncing that thing off the rev limiter all day last Sunday at the Mopar Nationals LOL give me a break with the new Springs. We're not talking some high-dollar machine precision blueprinted and balanced motor here?To me the op is just trying to get some horsepower for funsies it looks like.
In the meantime, look for a $150 - 440 on Craigslist and put it on a motor stand and stare at it for a while and you'll get some ideas :thumbsup:
If I had a mopar truck I'd be thinking big block.
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It's not a question of breaking a spring. It's a question of keeping the valves under control. The cam he's suggesting is way bigger than the stock cam those 40+ yr old springs were made for. I've seen stock springs that old that you could easily push down with 2 fingers
 
I'm just giving my experience I'm using forty-year-old Springs with a bigger cam than that and having not one issue at all. The car runs perfect and drag races perfect. I'm just giving my experience that's all I've never seen a factory spring that I could squeeze with two fingers. Really a guy could probably go to a shop and just have the Springs tested. Or even build some kind of simple contraption that test how much pressure they have left in them. But it's been my experience just to throw in whatever I had and it works just fine especially with some kind of old hop up build like this. Know if he just got the block back from machine shop and was putting in all new pistons and rods and bearings and blah blah blah there's no way I would suggest throwing in some old Springs. But an 80000 mile truck where he is just throwing in a cam to see what happens?
I should do what you want to do this is just a form or everybody's giving their opinions anyhow and mine's not an opinion mine is my experience and yours is probably your experience you probably Broken Springs or had valves float that shouldn't have. I can tell you unless he Strokes that 318 and puts nitrous on it? A 318 ain't gonna set the world on fire in a full size truck no matter...
Here's a picture of My Time Slips from last Sunday with my 40-year old Springs and my 450 + lift. Can you shoot a picture of you holding one of your Springs between your fingers and squeezing it all the way down with two fingers?
20170723_171240.jpg


fishy68 said:
It's not a question of breaking a spring. It's a question of keeping the valves under control. The cam he's suggesting is way bigger than the stock cam those 40+ yr old springs were made for. I've seen stock springs that old that you could easily push down with 2 fingers
Click to expand...
 
Or wash the ones that you have and use them for free. And save those new strings and all that for a motor that's going to really bring you super fun in that truck. LOL
I mean I was tired last night and blabbed my mouth out and said what I said about the Springs just to wake up this morning and see how many people freaked out because I didn't recommend brand new springs LOL
Oh crap this reminds me! I didn't put the zinc additive in the motor like everyone told me I should or else my cam was going to go flat LOL also I'm still kind of waiting to see that picture of a small block valve spring compression between two fingers? What happens when that new valve spring is too strong for that old retainer and it breaks off? And it seems like the word of the day here is insurance? Everything could be beefed up for more insurance. Really I'm just not that vested in this so I'm not trying to start something stink anyways. My two cents to this original poster is the throw that came in there and have fun and stop wasting money on stuff you don't need. Have a nice day...
 
Tired springs + higher RPM = float

Simple as that.

So your tired springs may control stuff to 4500 rpm and a new set might hold them to 5200, which one is going to have more usable power if needed. Plenty of articles and test showing exactly that out there. The 340 dyno derby is one of them where the engine made a bunch more power with a valve spring change on a comp xe268 from stock 340 springs. Personal experience where there is no data to support an A-B test is nothing more than, it worked for me. Was it optimal, probably not. Plenty of people penny pinch and have decent results. I do it myself, just not in the valvetrain/springs. Maybe the next cam can use the new springs too, gosh what a concept.

Breaking a retainer, you grasping at straws? LOL I won't make what I'd like to comment about that statement with an OEM 340 spring. Keep at it because sometimes it's better to put the shovel down and step away from the hole. :)

If 50 bucks breaks the bank on a cam change or overall build, maybe some thought needs to be placed on where it's best to spend any money at all.

Don't worry, after this, I won't see your response... :) It's where you should have stayed from the as time.

Have at it.
 
crackedback said:
For $50-60 he cam put a fresh set of 340 springs on the engine. Smart money to spend.

1970 DODGE DART 5.6L 340cid V8 Valve Spring | RockAuto


Under $4 at summit too IIRC, buy another 50 in parts and you get free shipping.
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Yes, something like those... they don't cost an arm and leg. There are a lot of good single spring sets in the $60-80 range for a full set.

To to OP, now that you are considering new/better springs, now I'd be re-looking at the cam. Something with shorter advertised duration but about the same .050" duration. Like this:
https://www.summitracing.com/parts/lun-10200205/overview/make/dodge
Or this:
https://www.summitracing.com/parts/cca-20-210-2/overview/

The shorter advertised duration ought to keep your low RPM torque up better and that is important for most trucks, especially when starting with low CR anyway. Yeah, I know mission and price creep...just opening up some options.
 
You are correct there's no question about it here I am not arguing that new Springs and new stuff is going to be way Superior. And yes you are completely correct when I was grasping about the retainers LOL I hope you do read this and you find out that you're right you're right you're right lol like I said I was just in a frisky mood last night I guess and said don't change the Springs to get everybody going crazy. You'll find through my threads and you probably know I'm not too good at spending my own money let alone cyber spending anybody else's and if I had to be passive aggressive which is one of my favorites I would say yes $50 and springs and don't forget you added the other $50 someone has to order to get the free shipping LOL okay now I'm done and back to you being correct new Springs will create more horsepower Agreed 100% And you know I can't resist a good discussion never an argument...

crackedback said:
Tired springs + higher RPM = float

Simple as that.

So your tired springs may control stuff to 4500 rpm and a new set might hold them to 5200, which one is going to have more usable power if needed. Plenty of articles and test showing exactly that out there. The 340 dyno derby is one of them where the engine made a bunch more power with a valve spring change on a comp xe268 from stock 340 springs. Personal experience where there is no data to support an A-B test is nothing more than, it worked for me. Was it optimal, probably not. Plenty of people penny pinch and have decent results. I do it myself, just not in the valvetrain/springs. Maybe the next cam can use the new springs too, gosh what a concept.

Breaking a retainer, you grasping at straws? LOL I won't make what I'd like to comment about that statement with an OEM 340 spring. Keep at it because sometimes it's better to put the shovel down and step away from the hole. :)

If 50 bucks breaks the bank on a cam change or overall build, maybe some thought needs to be placed on where it's best to spend any money at all.

Don't worry, after this, I won't see your response... :) It's where you should have stayed from the as time.

Have at it.
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OP, if you are buying a cam/lifters from summmit, get a set of Trick flow 16901 springs, $55

Same spring as the comp 901's, just a little less money and less than 16 340 springs.
 
Best bang for the buck with those tires is more gear and a 2800TC, and forget about that cam.
How tall are your tires, 29s? 3.55s is not nearly enough gear. You want snappy? You need the equivalent of a 12.34 starter gear with 24s. That would be 3.79s with 29s, I would round up to 3.91 with a 318. and don't forget the minimum 2800TC.
The 4bbl and duals are bang-on. Put springs on it to hit at least 5200, cuz the 727 will suck the Rs down to 59% on the shift which being 3100ish. Anything lower than that, and the poor teener will be struggling, cuz with 29s and a 3.91, she will be pushing air at 45mph. Second will pull to 75, and third;109mph.
The 3.91s will cruise at 63=3000
You can put any cam in there you like but the performance will not be there to the extent that gears and a TC will get you. In fact; I can bet you a dollar you'll be back, crying about how soggy the bottom end is. Then someone will tell you to put 3.91s in, and at least a 2800TC. And then you will have what you want; a snappy truck with a little lope.

As for me, I would not install any slow-ramp cam.
As for me, I think I installed 360 springs to cure the lifter pump-up/valve float, with a little extra shimming.
I have an 84 D-100lb.

EDIT
I got mixed up, again. That photo in post #13, is not gerty's lol. So gerty, what size tires are YOU running.
 
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AJ/FormS said:
Best bang for the buck with those tires is more gear and a 2800TC, and forget about that cam.
How tall are your tires, 29s? 3.55s is not nearly enough gear. You want snappy? You need the equivalent of a 12.34 starter gear with 24s. That would be 3.79s with 29s, I would round up to 3.91 with a 318. and don't forget the minimum 2800TC.
The 4bbl and duals are bang-on. Put springs on it to hit at least 5200, cuz the 727 will suck the Rs down to 59% on the shift which being 3100ish. Anything lower than that, and the poor teener will be struggling, cuz with 29s and a 3.91, she will be pushing air at 45mph. Second will pull to 75, and third;109mph.
The 3.91s will cruise at 63=3000
You can put any cam in there you like but the performance will not be there to the extent that gears and a TC will get you. In fact; I can bet you a dollar you'll be back, crying about how soggy the bottom end is. Then someone will tell you to put 3.91s in, and at least a 2800TC. And then you will have what you want; a snappy truck with a little lope.

As for me, I would not install any slow-ramp cam.
As for me, I think I installed 360 springs to cure the lifter pump-up/valve float, with a little extra shimming.
I have an 84 D-100lb.
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recommend a cam (copy and paste)
 
No sir,
IMO,this combo is not able to accept a cam,any bigger than the stock ICA without the aforementioned mods, and even then it will be iffy,IMO. That's just a recipe for disappointment; been there,done that. At 8.0Scr, the Dcr is already down at 7.0, and the VP is nearly dismal at 111. Then consider the mileage factor.
Slap a cam in there and watch the VP fall to sub-100 slanty territory.
Fairly heavy truck, tall tires, short gears, and a stock TC; cam is not on the table,yet. For me it wouldn't be ....at all.
The duals and 4bbl, are a great idea.
Gears and TC, yes! TC first if on a budget. I found the 2800 to be reasonable in mine.
I had a 9.73 starter gear in mine with 275/50-15s. These were about 25.8 tall, so the equivalent gear corrected to 24" was 9.05. This was reasonable but not exciting. The back end is pretty lite, so I could get the tires spinning with the freshened engine and 2800,fairly easy. I had to fabricate a fancy torque arm on the pinion, to control axle wrap tho;Wheel-hop was brutal.
 
Well gerty did you drink the cool-aid? Remember to order new springs or your going to leave tons of HP on the table. Don't forget to order those Rhoades lifters and didn't forget to buy new gears as suggested. Don't forget gaskets - intake, timing chain cover, water pump ect. Cam lube, rtv....
What about zinc?? Isn't this cam a goner without any zinc!?
A couple months ago I took apart the 318 with 35000 miles on it and put it back together with its same cam and people were freaking out that the cam is going to go flat with no zinc! So far I've proved the Kool-Aid Club wrong and it is fine. Maybe one day you'll prove the Kool-Aid Club wrong also. But for now just spend spend spend spend LOL buy this and buy that and for $50 more you can get free shipping !! LMFAO
 
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