I have a month old distributor that I put on my car. Drove it all day beautifully yesterday, today it would not start. I found out that the ignition point gap had changed spacing for some reason. I can wiggle the shaft that runs into my motor on the distributor back-and-forth, changing the gap size of the points. Is this normal? I know it’s supposed to be .017 and I set it to that, but it seems to run beautifully for a few minutes then seems to change again. Help!!
issue with my distributor points on my 64 Dart
- Thread starter 1966wgn
- Start date
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67Dart273
Well-Known Member
If you don't have a service manual wander over to MyMopar and download the closest one you can find there. You might have to settle for a year newer, or Plymouth vs Dodge, etc. Section 8 details testing shaft play. These girls always had some and "it is debatable" just what is too much. Best to observe on a scope or dwell meter, tips:
1....I never use a feeler gauge, I just set them "on the starter" with a dwell meter, then start it and recheck and diddle a bit from there
2...Make sure you have some good hi temp grease on the felt/ cam/ rubbing block, you want a tiny bit on the APPROACH side
3...If the books shows a dwell range, set to the SMALLEST number which is points further open, and therefore allows for "wear in."
4....If you are unaware, always set dwell first, timing last
5....A good condenser (capacitor) is required. The cap not only protects the points but also forms the spark. A vehicle with the cap removed will normally not start
1....I never use a feeler gauge, I just set them "on the starter" with a dwell meter, then start it and recheck and diddle a bit from there
2...Make sure you have some good hi temp grease on the felt/ cam/ rubbing block, you want a tiny bit on the APPROACH side
3...If the books shows a dwell range, set to the SMALLEST number which is points further open, and therefore allows for "wear in."
4....If you are unaware, always set dwell first, timing last
5....A good condenser (capacitor) is required. The cap not only protects the points but also forms the spark. A vehicle with the cap removed will normally not start
chryslerfat
Well-Known Member
Sounds to me you have trouble with the new China crap condenser. I had that problem on my old tractors with points and ended up buying old stock nos condensers to fix them. Some of the new ones lasted a 1/2 hour and some 3 days. No problems for the last 3 years now with new old stock.
Uncle Tony's Garage recently did a video about issues he was having with new replacement parts just like this.
chryslerfat
Well-Known Member
I dont watch that but started to notice the problem about 8 years ago and as I said stopped using them 3 years ago. One of the tractors blew the muffler up from backfire.
pishta
I know I'm right....
if you can wiggle the shaft the bushing is gone. Get another or replace the bushings. It should be tight enough NOT to change point gap.
@halifaxhops
@halifaxhops
Must've been quite a backfire!!!
Want to use some grease on the distributor lobes that open the points so they are not running dry wearing the friction block on the points and closing the gap.
If you can wiggle the advance cam enough to see it open and close the points something is worn, Think the factory tolerance is .005. Prob a cardone rebuild I bet! Yes the point Gap sholud be set at .017 and dwelll should be 28-32. Hope that helps. Aso as stated the new ignition pars stink, look for older nos/nors parts and if you get a good condenser save it.
jbc426
Well-Known Member
I use synthetic disc brake grease on the cam, felt pad and contact foot of the points set. Check and polish the cam before adjusting the point gap. Verify the dwell with a meter after setting the gap to. Set it on the small side of the spec as dwell grows with wear.
If the dwell is still changing, you may need to replace the distributor bushing or replace the distributor with a known good unit. Be sure to verify the internal advance settings match though.
If the dwell is still changing, you may need to replace the distributor bushing or replace the distributor with a known good unit. Be sure to verify the internal advance settings match though.
Rustedwrench
Well-Known Member
[QUOTE="67Dart273, post: 1973539362, member: 17025"
5....A good condenser (capacitor) is required. The cap not only protects the points but also forms the spark. A vehicle with the cap removed will normally not start[/QUOTE]
I would not choose to say the condenser "forms the spark." I would say the condenser prevents arcing of the points when they open. This accomplishes two things. First, it prolongs the life of the points, obviously. Second, and more importantly, it provides for an instant cut-off of the primary current in the ignition coil. If the points are arcing the primary current flow decays slowly, relatively speaking. This does not induce sufficient voltage into the coil secondary windings to properly fire the spark plugs because the magnetic field around the primary coil windings is collapsing too slowly. One can see this when using an oscilloscope to view the primary coil voltage.
5....A good condenser (capacitor) is required. The cap not only protects the points but also forms the spark. A vehicle with the cap removed will normally not start[/QUOTE]
I would not choose to say the condenser "forms the spark." I would say the condenser prevents arcing of the points when they open. This accomplishes two things. First, it prolongs the life of the points, obviously. Second, and more importantly, it provides for an instant cut-off of the primary current in the ignition coil. If the points are arcing the primary current flow decays slowly, relatively speaking. This does not induce sufficient voltage into the coil secondary windings to properly fire the spark plugs because the magnetic field around the primary coil windings is collapsing too slowly. One can see this when using an oscilloscope to view the primary coil voltage.
67Dart273
Well-Known Member
No the condenser is absolutely essential in breaker point ignitions. Unless some coils are better designed, all older ignitions MUST have a condenser. The condenser/ coil "trade energy" from what is called the "flywheel effect" of the charge in the condenser by the coil, and then discharging back into the coil. THAT can be seen on an oscilloscope
To imply that the condenser's most important job is to protect the points (which it does) is a red herring, because without a cap/ condenser, the damn thing will never run. The system won't make enough spark. Therefore protecting the points is "pointless" so to say.
To imply that the condenser's most important job is to protect the points (which it does) is a red herring, because without a cap/ condenser, the damn thing will never run. The system won't make enough spark. Therefore protecting the points is "pointless" so to say.
Rustedwrench
Well-Known Member
First, I did not say a condenser was not required. Nor did I say the most important job of the condenser was to protect the points. I said that was one of the effects. The most important thing the condenser does is provide for an instant cut-off of the primary coil current. The magnetic field must collapse instantly. That is why electronic ignitions wherein the coil current is switched by a power transistor do not have a condenser. The transistor switches the current off instantly.
The voltage induced into a coil is proportional to the speed with which it interacts with the magnetic field.
Wow, where did @1966wgn go? Asked for help and didn't stick around to fill us in or answer questions. "month old distributor" is the key here. Now he said he lost the point gap. Did the rubbing block on the cheap *** points go away or break off? I have seen that before. Get ahold of @halifaxhops and buy some real ignition parts.
Probably this happened.
On a V8
Yep, if it's a month old it should have at least a 90 day warranty.
The op hasn't been on since Wednesday night. I'm out.
You have to watch te store rebuild. They are also set up for a ten year or so spread of motors, usually curved kind of in the nmiddle of them so it could have stared life as a 360 and will fit a 273. I strip them when I get them for parts. That's the reason the numbers are shaved off the housing.
j par
Well-hung Member
Points...
..
Flip phone..
Vinyl records...
Beta video player...
....
..Flip phone..
Vinyl records...
Beta video player...
....Thanks for the advice everyone! Turns out that the distributor for some reason can wiggle on the engine block causing the spacing of the distributor points to change. I’ve ordered a new distributor to see what that does.
I’d be interested if you have one for a slant six
I'm late to the party but only have my story to tell... I was working at a tire store / auto service center years ago and my specialty was installing those car phones that had a huge transceiver under a seat, etc... Textile mill covered a bunch of Sulzer looms with plastic and laid off my wife only 2 months after she made the final loan payment on a 79 Monte Carlo. I dropped the collision coverage to save a coin or 3 (my stoopid move). She went across town to sign up for unemployment and totaled that car on her way home. Only accident that was her fault (her stoopid move).
So the 2 kids, one in a car seat, wouldn't fit in my Chevy Luv pickup LOL. I managed to toss keys with a guy who had a 67 Notchback B'cuda for sale on his front lawn. It was 225 slant. It didn't run nearly as good as the 2 vehicles we had lost but it was a square trade. After myself and the other guys in the shop did complete tune up, wires, points, everything, adjusted valves, rebuilt the carb, still the way it ran (how much the radio antenna twitched) continued to vary. Great cold, like crap hot. Fault found was a worn out distributer. Dwell all over the place. Autrozone was Auto Shack back then. When I went to pick up their reman'd distributer. I knew to check it and said, "Nope. Order me another one". Went back to pick up the second one and again, "Nope". Third time's a charm. I got a good one. That old girl ran like she had been dipped in the fountain of youth (nearly 4 years if my memory serves). There was a timing set, and a water pump, and a ballast resistor installed during that period. Then it finally poked the #5 rod through the left side of the block.. That's another story. Suffice to say if/when you do hear a bottom end knock,,, don't try to drive it to the shop (unless you are ready to the LA upgrade anyway).
Reman'd parts always have been a gamble. I recall some calling black spray paint starter renew. LOL
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