LSx Valiant Build. Take a look inside...

[magnumdust]

What about just using short truck manifolds? Sure you don't get the same power, but it would likely get the car on the road until you could spring for a nice coilover setup.

I mean, take that little 5.3 with truck manifolds add a 100-125shot and you'd still have enough power to push the car into low 11s if not 10s.

 

[LS1 ACE]

I guess it all depends on your end power goal-constricting to a 1 5/8 will restrict some. Are you sure you can't reroute them up and over then back down kinda like A body headers normally would go? I know what you're saying about the exhaust pattern being different, but I guess I'd have to see it to wrap my head around it...gotta have a good visual.

You are correct, even with the fact that this is a 5.3 and not any of the larger LSX varieties, the 1 5/8 will definitely leave some power on the table. The way I see it however, it will make for a torquier and stronger powerband. I'm okay with a little bit less horsepower for now.

Headers can be rerouted up and over then back down like a body headers, but it gets expensive. Especially when you consider that not only do the tubes need to be modified, but the collectors for all LSX headers generally are positioned exactly where the torsion bars are located.

 

[LS1 ACE]

What about just using short truck manifolds? Sure you don't get the same power, but it would likely get the car on the road until you could spring for a nice coilover setup.

I mean, take that little 5.3 with truck manifolds add a 100-125shot and you'd still have enough power to push the car into low 11s if not 10s.

You have a point magnumdust. I've definitely given thought to this option. There are a few (possibly three, with one being for sure) options that I think will work with no to mininal effort. In the end, I think it's a personal call. I really don't want to have manifolds on the car. The tone of the car changes dramatically with long tube headers. Had them on my old car and I really enjoyed them. Plus with the cam in the car, I'd be leaving to much power on the table. Sure maybe like 15 rwhp, but it all adds up.

If push comes to shove, I will definitely go with the manifolds to get the car on the road.

Thanks for your insight magnumdust!

 

[txstang84]

A friend of mine used to own a '98 TA...he ran the old SLP 1 5/8" long tubes when they were still a new header...held his car all the way down to 6.9s in the 1/8th...pretty sure that's good for 10s

 

[6469MOPAR]

Any more info on this build.

 

[TAQuickness]

Mac mid length headers may be a good temporary solution.

 

[Idaho]

Nothing since May. Hope he comes back.

 

[340duster340]

what is the exhaust port spacing lsx vs. stock mopar? i am wondering if you can bastardize a set of mopar headers and just modify the flange (cut off the old and put on a chevy compatible flange. other dimensions are important like deck height and angle, but you get my vibes.

 

[RustyRatRod]

That's good thinking. The LS header ports are not paired together with the two center ports like the Mopar small block, but still, somebody that's good at it can get it done, I am sure.

 

[Wrencher]

I love it...... The LSx is a modern marvel imo, and I'm glad to see it ported to such a cool car. Price vs output is unbeatable on these engines and there are several ways to get to 400hp on stock parts. It looks smaller than I would have imagined in that engine bay.

I'll read through all the pages when I'm at not at work but I hope you have some of the finer details of the fab work required to make things play nice with the new powerplant.

 

[HotLines]

I love my 64 Signet as the lines of it cannot be beaten in my opinion, yet it's gone through every small block Mopar ever made since I've had it almost 30 years. In this day and age, there is more to vehicles than just staying with a name. I want my vehicles to give me power as well as handling and gas mileage, I want it all and I want support as well.
You can save this Signet by giving me 25 grand or a diesel motorhome or just by excepting my choice...

 

[LS1 ACE]

Wow! It's been so long since I've updated this...I didn't read through all the comments posted but I can see this thread turned into quite the controversy. Nevertheless, many of you have expressed continued interest in seeing the build. To be honest, not TOO much progress has been made. Been gathering parts for the build and working on small things here and there. How about I post some pics when I get home?

 

[LS1 ACE]

So to get this thread back on track, let me go ahead and post the very small progress I have made and the direction which I will be taking with the car.

Over the last year or so I've focused on trying to figure out the exhaust for the vehicle. The biggest obstacle has been a) getting around the steering box and b) the torsion bars. The simple solution would be to do a coilover setup. I would love to do this, but it simply isn't in the budget. So the torsion bars will be staying. In order to create more room however, the power steering box was swapped out for a manual box.

Stock box took up way too much room, who needs power steering anyway?

Took this little guy off a 69 Dart.

As it sits now in the car, yes I know those manifolds are upside down...

Close up of the Bryke coupler I will be using, do you guys recommend drilling
a hole for a set screw on the column side? Seems to be a pretty snug fit already.

 

[LS1 ACE]

With the manual box in place I now had a real idea of the space I would be working with for headers. I looked at several options. I first looked at several Lsx long tube variations but quickly realized that there was no way that any of them would fit around the steering box. My next idea was to take a set of Lsx headers and modify them to fit a) around the steering box and b) around the torsion bars. Making them fit around the steering box would be the easy part. Trying to make them fit around the torsion bars...not so much. All the collectors dump right into the torsion bar location and on the passenger side it doesn't help that there is a starter hugging the block. Back to the drawing board.

Passengers side gives an idea of how the long tube collectors would hit the torsion bar location, and that darn starter doesn't help either.


As someone mentioned in an earlier post, what about taking a small block mopar header and modifying the flanges? The Lsx header primaries are equally spaced out and the sbm ones have the two center primaries real close together. This could easily be addressed, so I decided to give it a shot. I purchased a cheap pair for mock up.

These would clear the steering box just fine, but the problem now is that the collectors also hit the torsion bars. Additionally, on the passengers side the headers seem to hug the block so tight that the starter is in the way.

**At this point I've concluded that the engine mounts place the motor really low in the k-frame. While this is providing me plenty of hood clearance, it is killing my options for longtubes and even manifolds. Can anybody confirm whether or not the engine seems to be sitting lower than stock sbm's with stock mounts?

The next step was to try manifolds, i tried several: truck manifolds, LS3 manifolds, and even the Hooker swap manifolds that have become popular on different forums. None of them were able to fit around the manual steering box, despite its smaller size.

08 Truck Manifolds with heat shields, the bottom portion of the manifold hit the top of the box, just by a 1/2" or so.

LS3 manifolds, just a bit of a smoother design but still hit the top of the box

I tried a buddies set of Hooker manifolds and they too hit the top of the box.

*Note: None of these options hit the inner fender wells. This means that if the engine were to sit a bit higher they would wrap around the steering box just fine and squeeze right in. Additionally, because of the smaller collector they could be worked around the torsion bar.

 

[wardy]

Meh I like it, love something different and you can't deny the lsx potential!
I've even considered going turbo big block chev in my valiant sedan, purely based on cost and availability.

Leave those manifolds upside down, just bolt a turbo in there ;)

All the best I'll be following

 

[Uhcoog1]

Can you measure your crank bolt to the top of the K member? Also, do you know your current driveline angle?

TTI uses crank to top of K member and Crank bolt to each frame rail when measuring if the motor is in the factory location. Should be a good indication for your purposes, and will help you know how far you can go up (when combining that with drivetrain angle). More than likely you can go up

 

[magnumdust]

With the manual box in place I now had a real idea of the space I would be working with for headers. I looked at several options. I first looked at several Lsx long tube variations but quickly realized that there was no way that any of them would fit around the steering box. My next idea was to take a set of Lsx headers and modify them to fit a) around the steering box and b) around the torsion bars. Making them fit around the steering box would be the easy part. Trying to make them fit around the torsion bars...not so much. All the collectors dump right into the torsion bar location and on the passenger side it doesn't help that there is a starter hugging the block. Back to the drawing board.

Passengers side gives an idea of how the long tube collectors would hit the torsion bar location, and that darn starter doesn't help either.


As someone mentioned in an earlier post, what about taking a small block mopar header and modifying the flanges? The Lsx header primaries are equally spaced out and the sbm ones have the two center primaries real close together. This could easily be addressed, so I decided to give it a shot. I purchased a cheap pair for mock up.

These would clear the steering box just fine, but the problem now is that the collectors also hit the torsion bars. Additionally, on the passengers side the headers seem to hug the block so tight that the starter is in the way.

**At this point I've concluded that the engine mounts place the motor really low in the k-frame. While this is providing me plenty of hood clearance, it is killing my options for longtubes and even manifolds. Can anybody confirm whether or not the engine seems to be sitting lower than stock sbm's with stock mounts?

The next step was to try manifolds, i tried several: truck manifolds, LS3 manifolds, and even the Hooker swap manifolds that have become popular on different forums. None of them were able to fit around the manual steering box, despite its smaller size.

08 Truck Manifolds with heat shields, the bottom portion of the manifold hit the top of the box, just by a 1/2" or so.

LS3 manifolds, just a bit of a smoother design but still hit the top of the box

I tried a buddies set of Hooker manifolds and they too hit the top of the box.

*Note: None of these options hit the inner fender wells. This means that if the engine were to sit a bit higher they would wrap around the steering box just fine and squeeze right in. Additionally, because of the smaller collector they could be worked around the torsion bar.

I'm certainly no engineer/performance builder, but i wonder if you could do log manifolds in an N/A format? You may loose a little power, but it would get it on the road(providing they fit)

 

[LS1 ACE]

I have focused on purchasing parts that I know I need for the car. All the while, I've kept one other exhaust option in mind all along. Perhaps the upside down manifolds in the earlier pic tipped some of you off already.

I wanted to keep all the room in the trunk, and so I purchased an EFI stock fitting tank. The pump inside is said to be good for 550rwhp. I also purchased the hose and fittings needed for the fuel system, just missing a fuel pressure regulator and filter combo. Do you guys think it is necessary to use hard line for the fuel system?

Since the car's interior is completely apart, I decided to have the car entirely rewired as well. Picked up a brand new engine harness, trans comp, and wiring kit.

To compliment the upgraded wiring I chose to go with new electronic gauges.

Since I don't feel like paying 200+ bucks for a dash insert for my gauges. I've started building my own from my stock cluster.

Stock 69 Valiant cluster 80k miles!

Cut, sanded, and prepped

Painted and ready to go

Still working on the gauge panel. Need to make the holes for the gauges, wipers, and turn signals....then paint. Anybody have any ideas how to best attach this piece to the dash insert above?

Found a great how to here on the site and will be changing out the lower bearing and installing the car once the dash is setup.

Almost forgot about the dash itself, had it powdercoated

 

[magnumdust]

where did the tank come from? and does it use the mopar sender or its own sender for the gas gauge?

edit: i used Fragola pushlite hose for most of my system, but i intend to change the back half to aluminum tubing. The A-body underside doesnt lend itself to using soft hose.

 

[mosleyme]

Stock box took up way too much room, who needs power steering anyway?

Congratulations you now have 22:1 steering ratio... that will be just fine for the dragstrip.

Manual 16:1 can be found. Not easily. Your original power steering was 16:1. You might want to look into the Borgeson Power Steering box, it has a nice 14:1 ratio. Much smaller than the Mopar power chunk, a little bit bigger than the manual. Not cheap. If you are stuck with the manual look into the fast ratio arms from firm feel, it will give you about a 25% faster ratio. On 22:1 that will get you somewhere between 16:1 and 17:1, you will then have to accommodate the longer arms in your exhaust design... one solution creates a new problem.

You may end up having to make your own headers.

 

[LS1 ACE]

Oh, and I finally got a pic of a LS oil filter line install. These are -10 lines and it's about 4 1/2" from the bottom of the pan rail to the bottom of the line itself.

That pic is gonna help, I'll save it for when I get to that point in the build.

 

[LS1 ACE]

Meh I like it, love something different and you can't deny the lsx potential!
I've even considered going turbo big block chev in my valiant sedan, purely based on cost and availability.

Leave those manifolds upside down, just bolt a turbo in there ;)

All the best I'll be following

Wardy, you've read my mind.

 

[LS1 ACE]

Can you measure your crank bolt to the top of the K member? Also, do you know your current driveline angle?

TTI uses crank to top of K member and Crank bolt to each frame rail when measuring if the motor is in the factory location. Should be a good indication for your purposes, and will help you know how far you can go up (when combining that with drivetrain angle). More than likely you can go up

I'm not familiar with my current driveline angle but I just went out back and did some measuring for the crank bolt to K.

From top of K to center of crankbolt: 5.25"
From passenger side of frame to center of crankbolt: 13.75"
From driver's side of frame to center of crankbolt: 15.25"

 

[LS1 ACE]

I'm certainly no engineer/performance builder, but i wonder if you could do log manifolds in an N/A format? You may loose a little power, but it would get it on the road(providing they fit)

I think something like that would probably fit, but as you mentioned performance is an issue. I don't know how to weld, and something like that (as simple as it kinda seems) would probably not be worth the money to hp cost. I may be wrong, never actually seen that type of header on a NA application.

 

[magnumdust]

What did those hooker swap headers look like? Doing a little searching i came across these swap shorties meant for 4wd chevy blazers. The #1 primary(if that is #1 on a chevy) appears to make a sharp curve for the collector and may clear the box.