Magnum 360 build. (HP/tq?)

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ParDaddy

Look Momma, I'm going fast
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Fresh rotating assembly. Fully balanced, Stock stroke, +.30 pistons rated 10.5-1 comp, .480/.480 hydraulic roller cam, PIE level 2 heads w/2.05 int valves, and the M1 Mopar Performance 4bbl intake... All in all, about $6k lol!
Just wondering what kind of horsepower and torque you guys think I'm looking at?

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What rpm do you think peak hp will happen at?

Say 5500 rpm you can kind of figure it out, an average guy build is gonna make 1.15 to 1.25 lbs-ft per cid so say 1.2 average x cid = 438 peak tq.

tq at peak hp averages 90% of peak tq so 394 tq x 5500 rpm / 5252 = 413 hp @ 5500 and 438 tq around 1000-1500 rpms lower.
 
What rpm do you think peak hp will happen at?

Say 5500 rpm you can kind of figure it out, an average guy build is gonna make 1.15 to 1.25 lbs-ft per cid so say 1.2 average x cid = 438 peak tq.

tq at peak hp averages 90% of peak tq so 394 tq x 5500 rpm / 5252 = 413 hp @ 5500 and 438 tq around 1000-1500 rpms lower.
A gross amount of assumption here.
 
The following is dissection aimed to help.
Fresh rotating assembly. Fully balanced, Stock stroke, +.30 pistons rated 10.5-1 comp, .480/.480 hydraulic roller cam,
Lift has some help, but what about the advertised and the duration @.050? How much over lap does the cam have? What is the LSA?
This is of major importance!!!!!
PIE level 2 heads w/2.05 int valves,
While stating it’s a level 2 performance sounds cool, it’s not, here’s why.
In order to take a guess at HP & Tq., the head flow numbers are needed. I’m not going to the PIE web site to poke around for these numbers. Please give the flow curve numbers.


and the M1 Mopar Performance 4bbl intake...

Any work done to the manifold?
Just wondering what kind of horsepower and torque you guys think I'm looking at?

Header size would help a bit as well.
When you’re able to answer the above missing values, a reasonable guess can be made. The missing information above is a HUGE! factor in any attempt for a “Guesstimate!”
 
A gross amount of assumption here.
Yes :) but so is guessing out of thinair, but yes there's variables. I was given an eg.. to the OP if he knows what rpm he built for how to mathematically guesstimate.


GTX Johns guess = would have 1.23lbs-ft Tq per cid and peak hp around 5500 rpm to workout mathematically.
 
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Yes :) but so is guessing out of thina, but yes there's variables.
“Thina?”
Your reply was off base and half way to insane & here’s why I think your response should not been.

“What rpm do you think peak hp will happen at?”

You’re asking someone asking us because he doesn’t know where leak torque is going to happen? This is stupid. How can you ask a guy this very question when that is his question?!?!

Unbelievable!!!!!

“Say 5500 rpm you can kind of figure it out, an average guy build is gonna make 1.15 to 1.25 lbs-ft per cid so say 1.2 average x cid = 438 peak tq.”

How do you get peak torque at 5500? There is absolutely no basis to get this number but only through assumption.

“tq at peak hp averages 90% of peak tq so 394 tq x 5500 rpm / 5252 = 413 hp @ 5500 and 438 tq around 1000-1500 rpms lower.”

Again, only under gross assumptions can this work.

You have no idea of head flow, exhaust flow, header size, cam duration @.050 or advertised or the overlap. Is this an LA cam or a Magnum cam…. Ground on what lobe series?

What size carb is he using?

Your making guesses through assumptions.

And the. You defend it and even worse you drag GTX John into this? Dang! You got some balls kid. Some set of balls dragging GTX John into defending you and using his guess as a crutch as a defense on being correct.

Un-freakin-believe- ABLE!
GTX Johns guess = would have 1.23lbs-ft Tq per cid and peak hp around 5500 rpm to workout mathematically.
If you assume a lot of factors. And you did.
And now I see you blaming GTX John?

WTF?

Is this a “Anything to be in the right” thing for you?
 
This how I Guesstimate and was sharing my method if one chooses to use it, the dyno guy from engine masters uses a similar one but based on 1.25lbs-ft and 90% so you just got to guess peak hp's rpm and math the rest.

The main variables are

What rpm peak hp will happen
How efficient lbs-ft per cid
And tq % at peak hp, rest is just math, tq x rpm / 5252 = hp, which is how I think and make sense of things.

“Thina?”
Thinair
Your reply was off base and half way to insane & here’s why I think your response should not been.
“What rpm do you think peak hp will happen at?”

You’re asking someone asking us because he doesn’t know where leak torque is going to happen? This is stupid. How can you ask a guy this very question when that is his question?!?!
Unbelievable!!!!!
I was given an eg.. to the OP if he knows what rpm he built for how to mathematically guesstimate.
“Say 5500 rpm you can kind of figure it out,
Say = eg..
an average guy build is gonna make 1.15 to 1.25 lbs-ft per cid so say 1.2 average x cid = 438 peak tq.”

How do you get peak torque at 5500? There is absolutely no basis to get this number but only through assumption.
Thats is an eg.. guess of peak hp at 5500 rpm
“tq at peak hp averages 90% of peak tq so 394 tq x 5500 rpm / 5252 = 413 hp @ 5500 and 438 tq around 1000-1500 rpms lower.”

Again, only under gross assumptions can this work.
Most dyno graph I've seen tq falls around 85-95% at peak hp rest is just math
You have no idea of head flow, exhaust flow, header size, cam duration @.050 or advertised or the overlap. Is this an LA cam or a Magnum cam…. Ground on what lobe series?

What size carb is he using?

Your making guesses through assumptions.
That's why I said say/eg 5500
And the. You defend it and even worse you drag GTX John into this? Dang! You got some balls kid. Some set of balls dragging GTX John into defending you and using his guess as a crutch as a defense on being correct.

Un-freakin-believe- ABLE!
Just point out there mathematics that fit even with a guess
If you assume a lot of factors. And you did.
And now I see you blaming GTX John?
How did I blame him?
WTF?

Is this a “Anything to be in the right” thing for you?
Did I promise 100% accuracy, just how to mathematically guesstimate. And how does this make me right or wrong.

This doesn't need to be contentious, Why does this bug you so?
 
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About what a stock 440 makes with less torque.
 
About what a stock 440 makes with less torque.
1.15 to 1.25 tq are average guy fully built engines gross dyno #. For a less efficient engine probably gonna be under that like 1-1.15 tq so like 1.08 tq average, really if your good at guessing peak tq and powers peak rpm, just need to 0.9 x tq x rpm / 5252 = hp, say a 440 makes 470 tq and hp @ 4500.

0.9 x 470 x 4500 / 5252 = 362 hp
 
I'm with GTX John. You need to put a little more cam in that motor.
Now having said that, I do think you're kicking 450 right Square in the butt with the right carburetor, as is.
I could be wrong I was once, then we discovered I was mistaken.
I'm a firm believer in, foot-pounds of torque as versus pound-feet. That's just the old fart in me.
 
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This how I Guesstimate and was sharing my method if one chooses to use it, the dyno guy from engine masters uses a similar one but based on 1.25lbs-ft and 90% so you just got to guess peak hp's rpm and
Fair enough guess
The main variables are

What rpm peak hp will happen
How efficient lbs-ft per cid
And tq % at peak hp, rest is just math, tq x rpm / 5252 = hp, which is how I think and make sense of things.
If you assume a lot. Let’s look at the rpm peak hp.
Where does it happen?
This you can not answer.
Again with how efficient it is.
This you can not answer.
Where is peak torque?
You can not answer that.

All of this is you trying to justify yourself without enough information & being precise in the estimate. Then you use math to justify which is bad math because you assume much.

Why do you continue to argue your right when you don’t have enough information to even possibly be in the ball park?
Oh! You mean in English it is to say; “Thin Air!” Gotcha! LOL
COOL
Thats is an eg.. guess of peak hp at 5500 rpm
That’s a big guess.
Most dyno graph I've seen tq falls around 85-95% at peak hp rest is just math
Remember that - Most I’ve seen statement.
Just point out there mathematics that fit even with a guess
Nope!
How did I blame him?
You used his name in justification
Did I promise 100% accuracy, just how to mathematically guesstimate. And how does this make me right or wrong.
You were being precise with bad math and guessing & assuming big time.
This doesn't need to be contentious, Why does this bug you so?
It doesn’t bug me. Not one bit. I’m calling you out on a HUGE ASSUMPTION and very bad math.

But you could be right!

It doesn’t have to on going. But you can’t resist and must prove yourself being right and arguing with me on your bad choices and making assumptions with it being backed by math.

This thread is going down in flames with your steadfast belief your right and using math as proof and a continuing of your postings.

You’re not helping. Your hurting. You do no homework. You just assume. If you took a wild *** guess and just wrote 440hp/430lbs. Tq. and let it ride, that would be one thing but you just assume and assume and assume without asking a decent question to the OP about his engine.

You Assumed a camshaft, his lift is correct or is it the listed lift for an LA cam and no further math correction was done which leads to the cylinder head flow capability. What the heck is the head flowing? IDK - WTH a stage 2 porting is! Is there a 3 or 4?

Without knowing the cam specs, actual lift, cylinder head flow and IMO, header size would help if not what’s being done with the exhaust piping, your just pissing in the wind.

But of course, as you demonstrated, these factors do not matter because your math proved it all unworthy of being known or cared about.

I presented these questions to the OP to better understand the engine’s potential of power and you don’t give a flying F! But just continue to drill in what the average guy does and engines make. While the OP may indeed be an average guy or a new fella not knowing anything, how do you know a really smart fella did t build the engine and select a really good cam for the tasks at hand?

You don’t! Ask some freaking questions and help out instead of stomp on people for potentially being average or less then. Get your *** out of the calculators and into the real world. I’m tellin ya that you really know how to **** on people. Your some kind of special.

And another funny thing, you always cry about me being mean and mad when we have these conversations. Truth of the matter is, I just sit here and shake my head on most of the utter crap you post up as if you have been there and done that. I roll my eyes and say to myself, this poor guy, WTF is he thinking and what planet did he call from?

Sincerely, I thought you were not only smarter than you post but a way better person.

Truly, sincerely, best of luck with your crate engine.
 
Hey! @273 ,Take a walk down into several cam catalogs and take note to every cam you can find with an advertised rating of 280*’s and not the duration @.050 as well as @.200 IF listed and compare not only that but the love or valve lift given for each camshaft in each style. Hydraulic, solid, Hyd. roller, solid roller.
Take note of there overlap and centerlines, as well as there valve events/timing.

Plug those variations into your calculator and see what a difference it can make. The change up the cylinder head flow. A good place for that is at the Stan Weiss web site.

That will keep you busy for a day or so depending on how deep your dive is and how much your brain takes in before it explodes.
There’s a lot to be calculating there! Small bites there buddy until your full rod the day.

After that, I’ll throw you some more curve balls for the brain to calculate.
 
Whatever you guess your way I'll guess mine, Steve Brulé of engine masters uses the same basic formula, 1.125 x cid x rpm / 5252 = hp. No offence but I'll take his dyno experience over yours.
 
No worries there. One, I did t make a guess but asked for information on the engine while you made assumptions.

The basic formula assumes much of the OP and the builder, which could be correct…. But would t you want to know some FACTS rather than stick your arse out for the world to see?
 
I’m just double surprised you’re dragging Steve Brule into this now.
Does this make you more right than usual?
 
i'm gonna go a little more conservative and say 415/425. i hope my back of the barroom napkin math check out.
 
No worries there. One, I did t make a guess but asked for information on the engine while you made assumptions.

The basic formula assumes much of the OP and the builder, which could be correct…. But would t you want to know some FACTS rather than stick your arse out for the world to see?
If he gives them sure, I only gave an example so far, but it's very unlikely that engines making outside of 1.15-1.25 lbs-ft per cid 1.2 is a fair guess and doubt peak power will be outside 5000-5500 rpm. And I did google what cam he could be possible running etc.. when I said my eg.. guess.
 
It'll be enough to liberally smoke tires so why does it matter?
 
You goggled what cam he could be using?
Whatcha come up with?
 
@273 You red X’d me for asking you a question on what cam you goggled for the calculator you used on your guess?

:rofl: :rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl: :rofl: :rofl:
 
It would have been interesting to see what the goggle search came up with in cam choices with only the lift to base it on.
 
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