Making power out of the 318

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Ok It was "318 Power" he brought back for the recent dead and this slightly inactive thread.

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Icetech said:
Rumble, what's your view on oil system mods like the cam valley crossover tube and ****?
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I’ll focus on the oil cross over mod alone. I’ll consider all other mods worth it if not necessary for the potential output designed within the modifications being made.

Since the original mod is to block oil and restrict it to keeping the main feed well, then the blocking of the passage is good for the intended high rpm usage it’s being done for.

Now the cross over part. Why is it done? To feed he gallery oil for the Hyd lifter of course. But why? If your going to run a Hyd cam, then is it really the cam you should be running to do the initial mod itself and then circumvent the mod?

To me it does t make sense to do a mod and then work around it to run a hyd cam when at this particular point a solid lifter cam will out power and out rpm the hyd cam.

Drilling the blocks I’ll feed to the head and maybe at best touching up (smoothing out.) the other oil gallery’s passages is all your going to need for a hyd cam. If you need to make more power, go with a solid lifter and cam. The oil coming down from the heads is enough to oil the lifters up top and the splash from down below is enough to do what’s needed.

Big hyd cams may have the goods to operate above 6500 rpm. But why when more power and rpm is available in a solid?

Let’s say that your stock un modified block is good for 6600 rpm. You need more power, the solid cam is the route! It’s just one small plug to have drilled and tapped to fit on the drivers side of the block up front. Done!

The tubing of the lifter bores & gallery should be looked at as a serious build should have this done and this is for the big solids. SFT or roller.

If you can’t make the power with a hyd cam then it’s probably the wrong cam. There also a hassle at high rpm to keep happy and set up. Heavy springs can collapse lifers, not a problem with solids, there not as stable and will not rpm like you want.

That’s what the cross over is for IMO.
IMO, it is an unnecessary modification.
Skip the cross over mod and go straight, directly to a solid cam and go!

That’s my opinion and view as well as what I do & have done & would do on future builds.
 
rumblefish360 said:
I’ll focus on the oil cross over mod alone. I’ll consider all other mods worth it if not necessary for the potential output designed within the modifications being made.

Since the original mod is to block oil and restrict it to keeping the main feed well, then the blocking of the passage is good for the intended high rpm usage it’s being done for.

Now the cross over part. Why is it done? To feed he gallery oil for the Hyd lifter of course. But why? If your going to run a Hyd cam, then is it really the cam you should be running to do the initial mod itself and then circumvent the mod?

To me it does t make sense to do a mod and then work around it to run a hyd cam when at this particular point a solid lifter cam will out power and out rpm the hyd cam.

Drilling the blocks I’ll feed to the head and maybe at best touching up (smoothing out.) the other oil gallery’s passages is all your going to need for a hyd cam. If you need to make more power, go with a solid lifter and cam. The oil coming down from the heads is enough to oil the lifters up top and the splash from down below is enough to do what’s needed.

Big hyd cams may have the goods to operate above 6500 rpm. But why when more power and rpm is available in a solid?

Let’s say that your stock un modified block is good for 6600 rpm. You need more power, the solid cam is the route! It’s just one small plug to have drilled and tapped to fit on the drivers side of the block up front. Done!

The tubing of the lifter bores & gallery should be looked at as a serious build should have this done and this is for the big solids. SFT or roller.

If you can’t make the power with a hyd cam then it’s probably the wrong cam. There also a hassle at high rpm to keep happy and set up. Heavy springs can collapse lifers, not a problem with solids, there not as stable and will not rpm like you want.

That’s what the cross over is for IMO.
IMO, it is an unnecessary modification.
Skip the cross over mod and go straight, directly to a solid cam and go!

That’s my opinion and view as well as what I do & have done & would do on future builds.
Click to expand...

Right now i'm only using a .525 and upto 5800-6000.. but the next motor will be a solid around .580ish (haven't thought bout it yet) the thought of just blocking the oil from the lifters scares the **** outa me :)
 
Why dont you just build 'em then and tell everyone how it went? I could tell ya about how mine went but you dont wanna hear it. The UTG Vizard build fallout leaves a vacuum for the "Im broke and building a 318 race motor " hype Tony started. Uncle Tony will never build it.
 
Dartswinger70 said:
Why dont you just build 'em then and tell everyone how it went? I could tell ya about how mine went but you dont wanna hear it. The UTG Vizard build fallout leaves a vacuum for the "Im broke and building a 318 race motor " hype Tony started. Uncle Tony will never build it.
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And if he does it will be a turd.
 
rumblefish360 said:
Hey there young fella. I’ve been real quite during this **** show of a thread going in every direction. Let me tell you a short tale.

Growing up in lower NY (Madagascar, umm, I ment to say, Long Island - that’s a joke there….) The driver my age starts at 17. You’re getting a good head start IMO.

Being your on a super tight budget, if you have the 328 now, I’d sell it, roll the money over into a 360 Magnum and build a copy cat engine. There’s no shame in this at all and it just gives a nod to the original people who did the work. Who are the people I’d copy? None other than Ma MoPar themselves.

MoPar made crate engines. A bunch of them. Your looking for 400hp? No worries. While MoPar did t rate the following engine at 400hp, all the dyno runs I have seen with this engine has slightly exceeded the mark. There is one problem to this copy cat build which I’ll address after I spell out the build.

What did MoPar do for this 360 (sized)/380hp for this crate engine? Copy cat the below build up. It’s an easy thing to do.

Any 5.9/360 engine that is in good shape will work. MoPar used the stock long block. What’s a long block? An assembled block with a full rotating assembly. Crank rods pistons bearings oil pump cam timing chain oil pump etc…. And the cylinder heads.
In other words, get a junk yard Magnum and re fit it with a passenger car oil pan and pick up.

MoPar used there own cam. It’s not Available anymore but Comp Cams has a nice slightly upgraded copy. Reuse the stock lifters. Add 1-3/4 inch tube headers if the price is right. The 1-5/8 headers will do if it has to be that way due to $$$ limitations.
Add a 750 carb and an electronic distributor. The MP chrome box ignition is very good.

The problem part is MoPar used a single plane intake which isn’t made anymore but 100% crazy expensive if you can find it. Substitute the Mopar M1 single plane intake manifold for a Edelbrock RPM intake manifold. It will help produce more low and torque. This will move the car easier. This intake has also shown to nearly flow as well as a single plane intake manifold at high RPMs.

List of parts;

750 carb
MoPar distributor and ignition box (Chrome box)
Edelbrock RPM
Comp cams copy cat cam for the crate engine.
Valve springs for the cam
Car oil pan and oil pump pick up.
Headers into a 2-1/2 exhaust - mufflers of your choice.
(For a “On the Cheap” exhaust, Summit racing has a complete set up that is very good.)

If you go to a junk yard for the engine, make sure you get the flex plate at the rear on the crank! Very important.

MoPar used the stock production line 5.9/360 engine that uses stock parts except this listed above for the crate engine program on this engine as well as the 360/300 hp engine.

Call a converter company up with all the specs of the engine as well as the cars rear end gearing, tire size and what transmission you are using and pay the piper for a good converter. This is an expensive part but sooooooo worth it, so save your money!

For a gear ratio, I suggest a minimum of 3.91, 4.30 & the max.

When these engines appeared at the drag strip, in gutted Dusters, fellas would run low 12’s easy. A few I have seen ran into the 11’s. Yes! Very light car and dedicated to the drag strip.

That’s what I’d do.

Keep saving up the money!

Best of luck with your pursuits!
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I got the joke lol. Don’t know who else gets it, but I got it. GOOD ONE
 
rumblefish360 said:
I’ll focus on the oil cross over mod alone. I’ll consider all other mods worth it if not necessary for the potential output designed within the modifications being made.

Since the original mod is to block oil and restrict it to keeping the main feed well, then the blocking of the passage is good for the intended high rpm usage it’s being done for.

Now the cross over part. Why is it done? To feed he gallery oil for the Hyd lifter of course. But why? If your going to run a Hyd cam, then is it really the cam you should be running to do the initial mod itself and then circumvent the mod?

To me it does t make sense to do a mod and then work around it to run a hyd cam when at this particular point a solid lifter cam will out power and out rpm the hyd cam.

Drilling the blocks I’ll feed to the head and maybe at best touching up (smoothing out.) the other oil gallery’s passages is all your going to need for a hyd cam. If you need to make more power, go with a solid lifter and cam. The oil coming down from the heads is enough to oil the lifters up top and the splash from down below is enough to do what’s needed.

Big hyd cams may have the goods to operate above 6500 rpm. But why when more power and rpm is available in a solid?

Let’s say that your stock un modified block is good for 6600 rpm. You need more power, the solid cam is the route! It’s just one small plug to have drilled and tapped to fit on the drivers side of the block up front. Done!

The tubing of the lifter bores & gallery should be looked at as a serious build should have this done and this is for the big solids. SFT or roller.

If you can’t make the power with a hyd cam then it’s probably the wrong cam. There also a hassle at high rpm to keep happy and set up. Heavy springs can collapse lifers, not a problem with solids, there not as stable and will not rpm like you want.

That’s what the cross over is for IMO.
IMO, it is an unnecessary modification.
Skip the cross over mod and go straight, directly to a solid cam and go!

That’s my opinion and view as well as what I do & have done & would do on future builds.
Click to expand...

I agree and will add this.

The big bearing killer on the SBM is that 3-4 and 5-6 rod bearings are fed by the 2 and 4 main bearings respectively.

So you are feeding those bearings with one feed PLUS the rockers. Every single roller cam I’ve ever seen has a groove around the 2 and 4 cam bearings to get full time oil to the rockers and springs. Which may be good. But, it takes a TON of oil to feed the rockers (and getting enough oil out to the adjusters) and ALL of that oil comes off that one main bearing and I suggest that extra oil going upstairs is a major contributing factor to killing the 3-4 and 5-6 rod bearings.

At this point, I don’t have a good answer of how to fix it, but the crossover doesn’t address the oil going to the rockers.

My gut is telling me to take the 2 and 4 cam bearings and clock them so it blocks the feed hole hole up to the rockers. So NO oil gets to the rockers from the stock holes.

Then to feed the rockers I want to drill and tap into the oil pressure gallery running up the back of the block and run a hose off that to a T or Y and run one hose over to the gallery that feeds the drivers side and another hose over to the passenger side.

Since it will be full time oiling I think a restricter somewhere around .060-.080 would be plenty.

Just rough thinking at this point, but it would stop taking oil from the rod and main bearings.

Thinking about it you could also just pull the oil from the drivers side main feed, but I’m thinking I want to stop taking any oil from the main feed.

I’m going to start putting my junk back together late April or early May. When I get there I may make a video after I get figured out what I want to do.
 
Can we please have a moratorium on "318 vs the world" debates?
 
273 said:
Ok It was "318 Power" he brought back for the recent dead and this slightly inactive thread.

View attachment 1716214858
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Over 400 posts in 30 days, what's that, an avg of 13-14 posts/day? Must've been very slightly inactive, I believe the mice in Your head have completely taken over, :lol:
 
Killer6 said:
Over 400 posts in 30 days, what's that, an avg of 13-14 posts/day? Must've been very slightly inactive, I believe the mice in Your head have completely taken over, :lol:
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It was dormant for 20 days and the "318 Power!" was for 4 months they weren't at the top of anyones new feeds, he started the "Steve Dulcich on building a budget 318" and brought back 8 month old "What do you think about this, 318 guys" both that got lockout and that just in February.

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Make of it what you will lol
 
273 said:
It was dormant for 20 days and the "318 Power!" was for 4 months they weren't at the top of anyones new feeds, he started the "Steve Dulcich on building a budget 318" and brought back 8 month old "What do you think about this, 318 guys" both that got lockout and that just in February.

​

Make of it what you will lol
Click to expand...
I would rather follow Steve for the end product I was looking for.
 
273 said:
It was dormant for 20 days and the "318 Power!" was for 4 months they weren't at the top of anyones new feeds, he started the "Steve Dulcich on building a budget 318" and brought back 8 month old "What do you think about this, 318 guys" both that got lockout and that just in February.

​

Make of it what you will lol
Click to expand...
I think a couple more 'teener build threads will force TMM to trade His 'lock' button in for a new one, lol...
 
Killer6 said:
I think a couple more 'teener build threads will force TMM to trade His 'lock' button in for a new one, lol...
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:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: I could open those back up but We don't need a barfight. LOL
 
Newbomb Turk said:
I agree and will add this.

The big bearing killer on the SBM is that 3-4 and 5-6 rod bearings are fed by the 2 and 4 main bearings respectively.

So you are feeding those bearings with one feed PLUS the rockers. Every single roller cam I’ve ever seen has a groove around the 2 and 4 cam bearings to get full time oil to the rockers and springs. Which may be good. But, it takes a TON of oil to feed the rockers (and getting enough oil out to the adjusters) and ALL of that oil comes off that one main bearing and I suggest that extra oil going upstairs is a major contributing factor to killing the 3-4 and 5-6 rod bearings.
Click to expand...
I agree. IMO, blocking the oil to keep the mains happy is what is needed for that high rpm. I’ll through the pushrods is one way. If you’re staying with the stock design, a new route must be taken to oil the rockers.

In general, this haven’t had a consistently high rpm engine. 7K plus performer. So I haven’t had issues.
Newbomb Turk said:
At this point, I don’t have a good answer of how to fix it, but the crossover doesn’t address the oil going to the rockers.
Click to expand...
Agreed, just the lifters.
Newbomb Turk said:
My gut is telling me to take the 2 and 4 cam bearings and clock them so it blocks the feed hole hole up to the rockers. So NO oil gets to the rockers from the stock holes.
Click to expand...
That’s one way to do it. Proba
Newbomb Turk said:
Then to feed the rockers I want to drill and tap into the oil pressure gallery running up the back of the block and run a hose off that to a T or Y and run one hose over to the gallery that feeds the drivers side and another hose over to the passenger side.

Since it will be full time oiling I think a restricter somewhere around .060-.080 would be plenty.

Just rough thinking at this point, but it would stop taking oil from the rod and main bearings.

Thinking about it you could also just pull the oil from the drivers side main feed, but I’m thinking I want to stop taking any oil from the main feed.

I’m going to start putting my junk back together late April or early May. When I get there I may make a video after I get figured out what I want to do.
Click to expand...

Newbomb Turk said:
I got the joke lol. Don’t know who else gets it, but I got it. GOOD ONE
Click to expand...
The crazy part is…. It’s also an EZ & do-able simple project for anyone to copy.
 
Maybe a poll, top vote the only one to stay unlocked, & may the best 'teener thread win!!!
 
What?!?! Say it ain’t so…. 318 for the win??????? :eek:
 
Trying to make a 318 fast is a total waste of time. What a boat anchor. If you wanna go fast with a small block the 340 is the only way. They rev way better too.
 
Mean416 said:
Trying to make a 318 fast is a total waste of time. What a boat anchor. If you wanna go fast with a small block the 340 is the only way. They rev way better too.
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Thanks for not a lctually helping with a 318.

IMG_1888.jpeg
 
Mean416 said:
Trying to make a 318 fast is a total waste of time. What a boat anchor. If you wanna go fast with a small block the 340 is the only way. They rev way better too.
Click to expand...
Yeah yeah yeah, I heard that about the 383. lol Funny thing is the 383 puts out 425ft lb torque and the 340 only 340 ft lb ,both at 3200 rpm. :D
 
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