Making power out of the 318

[RustyRatRod]

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I should have said 351 boss a killer engine

And you know, Ford had balls right there in 1971 right on the verge of the oil embargo. Putting a HOT 11.1 engine in a car in 71. They tried.

 

[66fs]

289-271 hp way over rated the pulled 235 240 on the dyno

My brothers broke into the 12's with his, but of course, we never had anything that was stock. All you had to do is ditch that Ford Autolite 4 barrel and get a decent intake and you were at 300+hp. We also ran 351 Windsor heads with Chevy 1.94 and 1.60 stainless valves.

 

[a-bodyguy]

And you know, Ford had balls right there in 1971 right on the verge of the oil embargo. Putting a HOT 11.1 engine in a car in 71. They tried.

very true even in 72 the 351 was still good compared to the mopar chebbie offerings

 

[66fs]

... Now closed chamber heads for the 318 would aid compression and mixture motion. A person with some welding experience could build a furnace to heat a head to cherry red and weld up a quench pad into the chambers. Then it needs to be cooled slowly over a number of days.
Back in the 1940s to the 1960s, Chevy guys would do that to the 216 and 235 6 cylinder heads to raise compression as far as 12:1. Of course guides must be checked and possibly replaced after and then a complete valve job after grinding the combustion chambers to.conform to the new shape and volumn. Then the head surface needs to be milled for gasket seal.
I see minimal difficulty doing that to 318 heads to raise compression and gain mixture motion which prevents detonation. A little pocket porting and port matching with a carbide burr and you could have decent heads. Lots of time but minimal cash outlay involved.

Or you could run 273 heads or 302 heads and port without the extra steps. But I still like 360 heads better for the air flow.

 

[a-bodyguy]

My brothers broke into the 12's with his, but of course, we never had anything that was stock. All you had to do is ditch that Ford Autolite 4 barrel and get a decent intake and you were at 300+hp. We also ran 351 Windsor heads with Chevy 1.94 and 1.60 stainless valves.

I street raced a pinto 289 302 heads top loader 4 spd 4.56 spool 175 shot 12 inch wide tires on it idled@1800 shook like the old pro stocks ran low 12s@ the track
me 70 duster no front bumper 340 11 to 1 stock heads 243@50 gk cam 108 lsa rhodes lifters torker door stop intake 650 dp unilte headers 727 3.23sg L60 14 26.99 tall 125 shot
sucked him 2 cars out of the hole beat him by 3 finished the quarter in 2nd gear
on paper i was supposed to lose that pinto coudnt have weighed more then 2800 lbs
one of my fav street races but to chicken to bet on it i expected to lose

 

[66fs]

I street raced a pinto 289 302 heads top loader 4 spd 4.56 spool 175 shot 12 inch wide tires on it idled@1800 shook like the old pro stocks ran low 12s@ the track
me 70 duster no front bumper 340 11 to 1 stock heads 243@50 gk cam 108 lsa rhodes lifters torker door stop intake 650 dp unilte headers 727 3.23sg L60 14 26.99 tall 125 shot
sucked him 2 cars out of the hole beat him by 3 finished the quarter in 2nd gear
on paper i was supposed to lose that pinto coudnt have weighed more then 2800 lbs
one of my fav street races but to chicken to bet on it i expected to lose

I was driving my 66 Formula S and some guy in a Fairlane or Falcon with a 302 will not leave me alone. He's got Stickers all over his rear side window. The Commando at that time was burning a quart of oil every 50 miles, the clutch is slipping in 3rd gear, but back then I was pretty froggy so I run him. Walked right away from him like he had nothing. What a hoot! I could not keep from laughing. A Friend had a 68 396 Chevelle 4 speed, that was a total dog. I never ran him, I would not do that to him. It is all in the combination, tuning and driving. Any one off and you lose.

 

[Dale Davies]

Or you could run 273 heads or 302 heads and port without the extra steps. But I still like 360 heads better for the air flow.

Yes you could but how available are 273 heads and how much valve can you put in them?
Port flow volume is just part of the picture. Flow velocity is also important and where in the port you get that velocity. Flow volume and flow rate combine to generate port energy. This is the important number.

 

[Dale Davies]

My brothers broke into the 12's with his, but of course, we never had anything that was stock. All you had to do is ditch that Ford Autolite 4 barrel and get a decent intake and you were at 300+hp. We also ran 351 Windsor heads with Chevy 1.94 and 1.60 stainless valves.

You have to run the 69 351 heads. Later ones used the toilet 302 emissions heads with the smaller valves and larger combustion chambers. Using the 351 heads requires either spacer washers for the 7/16" head bolts or drill and tap the block for 1/2" bolts.

 

[66fs]

You have to run the 69 351 heads. Later ones used the toilet 302 emissions heads with the smaller valves and larger combustion chambers. Using the 351 heads requires either spacer washers for the 7/16" head bolts or drill and tap the block for 1/2" bolts.

That is incorrect. 69 and 70 351 Windsor heads had the smaller chambers and 1.84 intake valves and larger ports. We used head studs with hardened washers, no problem. Not sure when the 351W went to small ports and valves, nor did I care.

 

[66fs]

Yes you could but how available are 273 heads and how much valve can you put in them?
Port flow volume is just part of the picture. Flow velocity is also important and where in the port you get that velocity. Flow volume and flow rate combine to generate port energy. This is the important number.

I have actually run 360 heads on a 273 and 318's. I much prefer them over 318 heads.

 

[273]

Yes you could but how available are 273 heads and how much valve can you put in them?
Port flow volume is just part of the picture. Flow velocity is also important and where in the port you get that velocity. Flow volume and flow rate combine to generate port energy. This is the important number.

People keep on saying port volume of a 340/360 head is too much for a 273/318 (velocity) but is that based on any real world evidence or just assumptions? Or peoples poorly tuned engines and or combos blaming the head or cam or etc..

You build a 350 hp 273 vs 318 vs 360 with the same head there all gonna be at different peak rpm I bet the velocity will be similar.

 

[Damn fish]

so i recently got and 1973 small block 318 i am very new to mopar and was wondering what to do to the 318 i have every thing but the pistons the guy that i got it off of droped one and cracked it, i also have 360 heads that i would like to put on i am thinking about putting kb 167 pistons (0.40 over) in it, stock crank, stock rods and a rad cam with a lot of lope because i am a stupid kid, and stock 360 heads and then some kind of single plane intake and then a 750 double pumper i am really on a tight budget. is all of this possible or unrealistic.

If i zero the deck with the kb 167 or 399s will there be a problem and will the intake fit, right

Correct

 

[a-bodyguy]

People keep on saying port volume of a 340/360 head is too much for a 273/318 (velocity) but is that based on any real world evidence or just assumptions? Or peoples poorly tuned engines and or combos blaming the head or cam or etc..

You build a 350 hp 273 vs 318 vs 360 with the same head there all gonna be at different peak rpm I bet the velocity will be similar.

Its not true i ran 2.02 heads on a 9 to 1 318 street hemi grind weiand stealth/ torker door stop with the spray 650 dp 727 3.23sg 125 shot
made more then car and build streer racing the 68 dart 270

 

[junkyardhero]

Its not true i ran 2.02 heads on a 9 to 1 318 street hemi grind weiand stealth/ torker door stop with the spray 650 dp 727 3.23sg 125 shot
made more then car and build streer racing the 68 dart 270

i love how your posts read like an encrypted message that has been intercepted.

half foreign language, half telegram.

 

[273]

i love how your posts read like an encrypted message that has been intercepted.

half foreign language, half telegram.

I wasn't sure if he agreed or not, So I took it as an agreement

 

[junkyardhero]

I wasn't sure if he agreed or not, So I took it as an agreement

unable to parse message. stop. send transcription key. stop. awaiting further instructions. stop.

 

[dirty white boy]

People keep on saying port volume of a 340/360 head is too much for a 273/318 (velocity) but is that based on any real world evidence or just assumptions? Or peoples poorly tuned engines and or combos blaming the head or cam or etc..

You build a 350 hp 273 vs 318 vs 360 with the same head there all gonna be at different peak rpm I bet the velocity will be similar.

j heads on a 318 doze one fine job! have had 2 and both were screamers!!

 

[66fs]

People keep on saying port volume of a 340/360 head is too much for a 273/318 (velocity) but is that based on any real world evidence or just assumptions? Or peoples poorly tuned engines and or combos blaming the head or cam or etc..

You build a 350 hp 273 vs 318 vs 360 with the same head there all gonna be at different peak rpm I bet the velocity will be similar.

Friend of mine raced dirt track, ran a 318 with 340 heads. Fastest car on the track.

 

[toolmanmike]

Friend of mine raced dirt track, ran a 318 and 340 heads. Fastest car on the track.

Gotta have flow!

 

[6T9QDA]

You don't have to get all the way there on first try, an honest well setup 300-350 hp 318/360 is gonna be a fun car and you have your whole life to go faster.

To the OP, your big advantage is a wealth of knowledge right here at your fingertips. Most of us started playing with engines long before the Internet, and sage advice could be hard to come by. I got sucked in by sexy horsepower numbers and wound up with too much carb, too much cam, and not enough compression or gear. Hung a $49 set of Blackjack headers on it because, well, headers. Hated it. Saved some money and put some dialed-back parts on it, and had a much more enjoyable car. Start slow. Use what you've got, and gain experience along the way.

 

[Dale Davies]

That is incorrect. 69 and 70 351 Windsor heads had the smaller chambers and 1.84 intake valves and larger ports. We used head studs with hardened washers, no problem. Not sure when the small valve 351W went to small ports and valves, nor did I care.

When Ford went to the small valve heads on the 351 it was a light bulb burned out moment of the bean counters calling the shots. Cost cutting road apples where by they just used the same castings used on the 302 engines. Now in the casting process the cost of 302 or 351 ports would be identical if they all used them. The cost of 1.78 valves would be the same as the 1.84 valves. Now suppose the engineers were presented the choice to use the 351 ports and valves on the 302 engines. I think the engineers would have chosen the 351 ports and valves.
Because emissions cams were ground with retarded timing required lower compression to prevent detonation and NOX. Those were the days my friend, but unfortunately not fondly remembered.

 

[Dartswinger70]

I figure like this if I need the 360 J heads for the 318 why not get a 360 and get rid of the dished pistons and call it a day...up compression that way
I right now have a spare set of js and am thinking of obtaining a 360 over the 318. I figure like this yeah I can build a 318 but in the end no one would give what its worth not true for the 340s 360s...if broke guys don't already think like that that's why they are broke...

 

[273]

Lol

 

[Ted265]

I figure like this if I need the 360 J heads for the 318 why not get a 360 and get rid of the dished pistons and call it a day...up compression that way

Yeah makes perfect sense...... instead of replacing the pistons in your 318 just buy a 360 and replace the pistons

 

[junkyardhero]

I figure like this if I need the 360 J heads for the 318 why not get a 360 and get rid of the dished pistons and call it a day...up compression that way
I right now have a spare set of js and am thinking of obtaining a 360 over the 318. I figure like this yeah I can build a 318 but in the end no one would give what its worth not true for the 340s 360s...if broke guys don't already think like that that's why they are broke...

oh yeah, that's sound financial advice. go spend 400~600 on a 360 short block that might (probably) needs $1000 worth of machine work and other parts at an unknown price, and you'd still need to do something to address the dismal compression of a 360.

so now you're out the $ that it probably would've cost to get some decent pistons into that 318 and you're basically at square one with a 360.

super solid reasoning there.