massive reconfiguration time again.

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yellow rose said:
If you need them and don't mind waiting on the mail, let me know Monday and I'll stick them in the mail.
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j par said:
I told Summit that I didn't get the screws that were in the picture with the 42 squirters. I said I'd like some 47s but I wanted to confirm the screws were coming with them. They said they don't come with them but hollow screws are required for anything over .040... They're ten bucks each LOL and two squirters for 16.65 which they're going to send me the new squirters for free because it's too much to send the old ones back. I'll be curious to see if the screws have larger holes...
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Didn't want you to miss that..
 
I got to give another plug for Summit racing. Not only did they not take the old nozzles back but they sent me the new ones for free. Not only that but I had a small order to add to it and they sent the entire order next Day air. I'm getting the parts within or less than 24 hours. most all my shipping dates have always said by the end of the day this one says by 10 a.m. tomorrow morning.. I have not had anyone even locally beat that kind of customer service.. they're going to get my money almost every time...
 
j par said:
Didn't want you to miss that..
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I'm glad you have that sorted out. That's the kind of thing that if you don't know about, will make you nuts. I'm not 100% sure but if those nozzles are even remotely close the the Holley anti pullover nozzles, .035 or maybe, maybe .037 is the max size you can get before the screw becomes the limit.

I'm thinking if you get the big nozzles and screws on there and get the primary side happy, then you are probably going to find you are correct that the doors are opening too late. When the throttle blades open the and the air doors open late, what pump shot you had to help cover some of the secondary opening is gone. If that makes sense.

BTW, what space(s) are you going to be at for the swap meet. If you are lucky, a very smart dude may come with me. Meeting him is a learning experience plus he's a very cool guy. I hope he goes with me and you get to meet him.
 
yellow rose said:
I'm glad you have that sorted out. That's the kind of thing that if you don't know about, will make you nuts. I'm not 100% sure but if those nozzles are even remotely close the the Holley anti pullover nozzles, .035 or maybe, maybe .037 is the max size you can get before the screw becomes the limit.

I'm thinking if you get the big nozzles and screws on there and get the primary side happy, then you are probably going to find you are correct that the doors are opening too late. When the throttle blades open the and the air doors open late, what pump shot you had to help cover some of the secondary opening is gone. If that makes sense.

BTW, what space(s) are you going to be at for the swap meet. If you are lucky, a very smart dude may come with me. Meeting him is a learning experience plus he's a very cool guy. I hope he goes with me and you get to meet him.
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I can't remember the space number at the moment but I'm at the very end of the straight away on the left. I'll have my 73 Dodge there for sale so it will be hard to miss..
 
yellow rose said:
I'm glad you have that sorted out. That's the kind of thing that if you don't know about, will make you nuts. I'm not 100% sure but if those nozzles are even remotely close the the Holley anti pullover nozzles, .035 or maybe, maybe .037 is the max size you can get before the screw becomes the limit.

I'm thinking if you get the big nozzles and screws on there and get the primary side happy, then you are probably going to find you are correct that the doors are opening too late. When the throttle blades open the and the air doors open late, what pump shot you had to help cover some of the secondary opening is gone. If that makes sense.

BTW, what space(s) are you going to be at for the swap meet. If you are lucky, a very smart dude may come with me. Meeting him is a learning experience plus he's a very cool guy. I hope he goes with me and you get to meet him.
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A very smart dude will be with you? I did hear opposites attract...:poke:...lol...
 
So again with this plug.. I definitely intend to move my timing from 35 back down to 33.. but again this white strap and relatively white clean insulator (lean) and the dark base circle (rich).. :BangHead:..
IMG_20200228_140802.jpg
 
Oh yeah all that idling romping and tuning cost me most of my time gallon fuel cell LOL I'm off to get more fuel first...
 
Well I got another chance to take it for a test drive. I still don't think the air doors are opening as much as they could. I was getting about a 12.-12.3 on the AF gauge. the flaps were opening slightly or I would say maybe halfway but not clicking wide open.. overall it seemed just a little bit better. I did this time put the squirters on the highest setting and move the timing back to 33 from 35 and the doors were set a half turn lighter than stock.
So for my next attempt I'm going to take the carbs off here and I'm thinking about changing the primary Jets down One step since I have them. I don't want to change the secondaries as a little more air should get that wide open throttle up to a 12.5 where I like it. Still the cruise numbers are way too low I just see a lot of tens and elevens. Idle is a 13-2 or so and I tried making some adjustments like turning them in a half turn and I did get up to 14 to but the idle went down. And when I went the other way and tried to open them all up a little bit it just got richer and the idle stayed about the same.
I did send for and get the 47 squirters and some new screws with holes but I swear they look exactly like the ones that are Factory. If they are at ten bucks a piece they're going back...
So I'll make my usual three or four different adjustments at once and hope that the magic happens..lol..
 
Those damn c clips on those pump rods! Not happy with that design. I've already started pulling hair pin clips off the old Edelbrocks..
 
j par said:
So again with this plug.. I definitely intend to move my timing from 35 back down to 33.. but again this white strap and relatively white clean insulator (lean) and the dark base circle (rich).. :BangHead:..
View attachment 1715480775
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That strap says you have a little too much initial. But, I read where you pulled couple degrees out. It is very possible to be lean or rich at idle and be opposite at WOT with those style of carbs.
 
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At least one video on the 'tube shows the air door opening what looks like 'all the way' with a snap of the throttle and no load:


Sounds like maybe those door springs should be loosened a good bit?
 
Phreakish said:
At least one video on the 'tube shows the air door opening what looks like 'all the way' with a snap of the throttle and no load:


Sounds like maybe those door springs should be loosened a good bit?
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Yes it jumps pretty high pretty fast with two primaries... It's kind of hard to do that with two carburetors at like to take off...
 
Well I was under the understanding that these had 78 primary Jets and I bought 76ers, but upon inspection they were 80s in the front and eighties in the back?..
Three of the four floats were a 1/8 to high and I adjusted them all to one inch..
I put the 47 nozzles and then left them at the highest notch. The hollow nozzle screws they sent me were exactly the ones that I already have... I went ahead and put the 76 Jets on just to see what happens. If it's too lean then I know to step it back.. and for sure when I take those stupid little tiny c clips off this next time I'm replacing them all with the hairpin clips that are a little bit easier to deal with..
 
j par said:
So again with this plug.. I definitely intend to move my timing from 35 back down to 33.. but again this white strap and relatively white clean insulator (lean) and the dark base circle (rich).. :BangHead:..
View attachment 1715480775
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You are still petty fat at idle and cruise. See those black balls on the porcelain? That is from excess fuel building up on the inside of the shell. Then they blow off and land where they are.

Take some fuel out of idle and cruise.
 
yellow rose said:
You are still petty fat at idle and cruise. See those black balls on the porcelain? That is from excess fuel building up on the inside of the shell. Then they blow off and land where they are.

Take some fuel out of idle and cruise.
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I took out the 80 Jets upfront and put 76 is in so that should do'er...
 
So right now I put the biggest pump shot available on the highest setting. I put much leaner Jets up front and turned in the door spring another quarter turn lighter...
 
318willrun said:
That strap says you have a little too much initial. But, I read where you pulled couple degrees out. It is very possible to be lean or rich at idle and be opposite at WOT with those style of carbs.
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That's a short reach plug on basically pump gas. The total looks fine.
 
j par said:
75% 92 non ethanol, 25% 110 Sunoco..
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That's still ok. Pump gas doesn't read like race fuel which doesn't read like alcohol. Even different fuels from the same manufacturer don't always read quite the same.

That short plug and ground wire with pump gas means you read total timing closer to the shell. If you had a projected nose plug, I'd say reduce the total until you move the mark up the ground strap from the shell to ~.080-.125ish.

BTW, why are you using a short reach plug? If the piston isn't in the way, you may be better off with a projected nose plug.
 
yellow rose said:
That's still ok. Pump gas doesn't read like race fuel which doesn't read like alcohol. Even different fuels from the same manufacturer don't always read quite the same.

That short plug and ground wire with pump gas means you read total timing closer to the shell. If you had a projected nose plug, I'd say reduce the total until you move the mark up the ground strap from the shell to ~.080-.125ish.

BTW, why are you using a short reach plug? If the piston isn't in the way, you may be better off with a projected nose plug.
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Same style I've always used I didn't know I was doing something wrong...
The subject is tuning these carburetors and I believe I have the time in close enough.. I already bumped it up to degrees like you mentioned before and it brought the timing on the strap way too close to the base.. and there was no improvement in the hesitation. Actually tried to Buck a little under a hot start and I just put it back this last time I pulled it out... I'd rather just get on with trying to get these carburetors right.. twisting that distributor back and forth it's too simple. Getting these carburetors to run properly is becoming a bit of a bear...
 
j par said:
Same style I've always used I didn't know I was doing something wrong...
The subject is tuning these carburetors and I believe I have the time in close enough.. I already bumped it up to degrees like you mentioned before and it brought the timing on the strap way too close to the base.. and there was no improvement in the hesitation. Actually tried to Buck a little under a hot start and I just put it back this last time I pulled it out... I'd rather just get on with trying to get these carburetors right.. twisting that distributor back and forth it's too simple. Getting these carburetors to run properly is becoming a bit of a bear...
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It's not the wrong plug. I use the short reach plug sometimes if I have something like a Hemi or some of the BB heads where the cool intake charge blows right over the plug when the intake valve starts moving off the seat. The long reach plug has more exposed area, and the temperature drop can cause the plug to show being rich, when in reality it is lean. Switching to a short reach plug helps stop some of that.

So sometimes you can get fooled by stuff like that. The small block heads have a much better plug location than most of the BB stuff, so the reach isn't an issue.

I have no doubt that you'll get the carbs in shape. I saw a tuning flow chart in high school (should have kept the the thing) and it showed the interrelationships between timing and the ignition curve, engine verses RPM, plug selection and carb tuning and how they all worked together or against each other.

You may make a change to the carb(s) that ends up calling for different timing, different heat range of plug or design or a combination.

It's almost as much an art as it is a science. That's why it's interesting. And frustrating!


Edit: BTW I forgot to mention this, which I'm sure you know and understand, but others watching this thread may not so...if the engine wants more total and you give it to it, but it kicks back or bucks on hot starts, you need to either slow the curve down (some guys set up their curve so as soon as the engine sees any RPM over cranking speed it starts adding timing) or change the curve a bit to reduce the intial (add mechanical advance) while keeping the total where it wants it.
 
318willrun said:
What weights are in your distributor with what springs???
:D
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I covered this I believe several pages ago with pictures LOL but if you look back it's like the silver and blue spring on the MSD distributor. Basically the second to fastest...
 
j par said:
I covered this I believe several pages ago with pictures LOL but if you look back it's like the silver and blue spring on the MSD distributor. Basically the second to fastest...
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LOL... I was just pok'n at ya, your trying to tune the carbs and you keep getting timing help :D
 
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