Match Race ~ 1967 Barracuda 383-S vs. 1965 Chevy 'II' Nova SS 327/300 HP

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69 Cuda 440 said:
Fishmen,

You couldn't have run into too many 1965 Chevy 'II' Nova SS {327/300 HP}
shoe-box packages.

There were only '319' built'.

Transmission and Rear-End Gear Packages
* 3-Speed Manual .................... 3.07 '10-Bolt Rear'
* Power-Glide .......................... 3.36 '10-Bolt Rear'
* 4-Speed 'M-20' Wide-Ratio ...... 3.07 '10-Bolt Rear'
* 4-Speed 'M-20' Wide-Ratio ...... 3.55 '10-Bolt Rear'
* 4-Speed 'M-20' Wide-Ratio ...... 3.55 '12-Bolt Rear'
* 4-Speed 'M-21' Close-Ratio ..... 3.73 '12-Bolt Rear'
Click to expand...

My friend's uncle had a '67 Chevy II with a 327 and an M20 (no idea if it was the original drivetrain)...poor thing just sat next to his shop untouched for years before he died. Plain Jane red deuce with rallyes and a bench seat. Probably didn't need more than fresh fluids, air in the tires, and a new battery to start up and drive away. Damn shame he never willed it to anyone, would've been a fun car to drive, I bet.

So...what did the Barracuda run?
 
Magazine Results

1967 Barracuda '383-S'

* Cars Magazine > 'Notchback' ~ Automatic ~ 3.23 Gears ......... 14.98 @ 91.50 MPH

* Car and Driver > 'Fastback' ~ Automatic ~ 3.23 Gears ........... 15.40 @ 92.10 MPH

* Road and Track > 'Fastback' ~ 4-Speed ~ 3.23 Gears ............ 15.06 @ 93.50 MPH

* Hot Rod Magazine > 'Fastback' ~ 4-Speed ~ 3.55 Gears ......... 14.82 @ 94.17 MPH

* Popular Mechanics > 'Fastback' ~ Automatic ~ 3.23 Gears ...... 15.20 @ 94.00 MPH
 
By using a 65 Nova you get the low production numbers, go to the next year and you get more of them then total Barracuda production let alone 383. Why would you compare a 65 to a 67 anyway? I bet no 65 A body was close, and by 67 you had even hotter 327s.
 
Hersbird said:
By using a 65 Nova you get the low production numbers, go to the next year and you get more of them then total Barracuda production let alone 383. Why would you compare a 65 to a 67 anyway? I bet no 65 A body was close, and by 67 you had even hotter 327s.
Click to expand...

I was using the 1965 Chevy 'II' Nova 'Super Sport' as a choice,

Because the 1965 model was {88 lbs.} lighter than the 1966 Chevy 'II' Nova 'Super Sport' model.
 
Torque-Flite vs. Power-Glide

No match here, as the 67' Barracuda 383-S 'Automatic' does in the 65' Chevy 'II' Nova Super Sport with the Power-Glide.

* Barracuda '383-S" w/3.91 Gears .................... 14.68 @ 96.30 MPH
vs.
* Chevy 'II' Nova 'Super Sport' w/3.73 Gears ....... 14.97 @ 94.10 MPH
 
Banjo Joe,

In 1966, the 327/300 HP was 'not' available in the Chevy 'II Nova 'Super Sport'.

The 327/275 HP was available, as was the 327/350 HP 'L-79'.

In 1965, the 327/300 HP 'L-74' was the 'High Performance 327' for the Chevy 'II'.

Differences

............................1965 ~ 327/300 HP ............ 1966 ~ 327/275 HP
Compression Ratio ....... 10.50-1 .......................... 10.25-1

Carter AFB ............. 665 CFM .............................. Holley 585 CFM
Throttle Sizes ......... 1 9/16" ~ 1 11/16" ............... 1 9/16" ~ 1 9/16"
Venturi ................... 1.250" ~ 1.562" ................... 1.250" ~ 1.313"

Intake ................. #3844458 ............................. #3872783

The 1965 Intake Manifold had a larger plenum, and larger runners.

Exhaust Manifold Outlet .... 2.50" ........................... 2.00"
Primary Pipe .................... 2.50" ........................... 2.50"
Tail Pipe ..........................2.00" ............................ 2.00"

Horsepower......... 300 HP @ 5000 RPM's ............... 275 HP @ 4800 RPM's
Torque ............... 360 Ft/Lbs. @ 3200 RPM's ........ 355 Ft/Lbs. @ 2800 RPM's
 
Right, so why not compare the 66 350hp 327 4 speed which they made more of and was closer in year to the 67 Barracuda then the 65?
Looks like they had 5481 350 hp 327 Novas in 1966, powerhouse not even available with that motor, that year.
 
Hersbird said:
Right, so why not compare the 66 350hp 327 4 speed which they made more of and was closer in year to the 67 Barracuda then the 65?
Looks like they had 5481 350 hp 327 Novas in 1966, powerhouse not even available with that motor, that year.
Click to expand...

Not an equal comparison.

The 1966 327/350 HP 'L-79' would be too much for the 1967 '383-S'.
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Regarding the 1967 Barracuda '383-S'.

The early Sales Brochure states that >

{Optional Gears} 3.55 and 3.91 were available for the 4-Speed.

3.55 Gears were available as an 'option' for the Automatic.
 
69 Cuda 440 said:
Not an equal comparison.

The 1966 327/350 HP 'L-79' would be too much for the 1967 '383-S'.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Regarding the 1967 Barracuda '383-S'.

The early Sales Brochure states that >

{Optional Gears} 3.55 and 3.91 were available for the 4-Speed.

3.55 Gears were available as an 'option' for the Automatic.
Click to expand...

I agree with the "L-79 being too much for a base 383 -S".... The car was light , already parts availability, & a small tire/ short stroke small block/ is much easier to hook up, than an first year big block unsorted out. Bonus points for Rickie's comments. If I was in a 300/327 then: Grab that 350/327 grind , rework the factory 1.94 461 castings lightly /install a real dual plane intake. Add a limited slip(unlikely it came with one..)& 4.10-- 4.30 gears... My quick .02 cents...
 
Popular Mechanics

Dan Gurney test drove a 1967 Barracuda '383-S' Automatic with 3.23 Gears.

The reported Test Weight {Curb Weight, less Driver} was #3385 lbs.

The Barracuda '383-S' blew away a 1967 Pontiac Firebird 400/325 HP in
head-to-head {1/4 Mile} comparisons.

Also, the Barracuda did reach 130 MPH on the straight-path of the Road Course.

General Overview, was that the Barracuda had good power and 'exploded' once
it hit 75 MPH, and reached 100 MPH within a flash.

Reported > The car weighed more than they expected, especially on the nose. As
it effected off-line take off, as they ended up spinning the little D-70 x 14" Red-Line
Goodyear Tires into 'baldies'.
 
69 Cuda 440 said:
Not an equal comparison.

The 1966 327/350 HP 'L-79' would be too much for the 1967 '383-S'.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Regarding the 1967 Barracuda '383-S'.

The early Sales Brochure states that >

{Optional Gears} 3.55 and 3.91 were available for the 4-Speed.

3.55 Gears were available as an 'option' for the Automatic.
Click to expand...

So by unfair comparison you mean one where the Mopar loses? Look I love Mopars but there is a reason they sold 5000+ L79s that year. They were cheap and they were big block killers. They put that car in the 426 Hemi's NHRA class. The magazine test was actually poor with only a 15.1 but I think the people knew better. They are pretty stinking valuable today as well even though not uncommon.
 
Hersbird said:
So by unfair comparison you mean one where the Mopar loses? Look I love Mopars but there is a reason they sold 5000+ L79s that year. They were cheap and they were big block killers. They put that car in the 426 Hemi's NHRA class. The magazine test was actually poor with only a 15.1 but I think the people knew better. They are pretty stinking valuable today as well even though not uncommon.
Click to expand...

69 Cuda 440 puts these threads together to try to match up cars that are reasonably close in performance as a way to teach people about the different driveline packages one could order in the muscle car era from many different manufacturers.

There is no way that a 383 Barracuda is going to run anywhere near an L-79 Nova from '66, so where's the fun in even trying to guess which is faster?
 
1965 Chevrolet Chevy II Nova SS Coupe 2 Dr with 300 HP 327 Cu In Engine
Shipping Weight: 2882 lbs Wheelbase: 110"

Natural Class F/S and F/SA - 10.50 Lb/HP 2783 -100 2953 11.80 index 11.85 index auto


1967 Plymouth Valiant Barracuda Sedan 2 Dr Hdtp with 280 HP 383 Cu In Engine
Shipping Weight: 3119 lbs Wheelbase: 108"

Natural Class G/S - 11.00 Lb/HP 3080 -39 3250 11.90 0.00
Natural Class E/SA - 10.00 Lb/HP 2980 -139 3150 0.00 11.70 Auto

Current NHRA Stock Clasifaction -
 
Hersbird said:
So by unfair comparison you mean one where the Mopar loses? Look I love Mopars but there is a reason they sold 5000+ L79s that year. They were cheap and they were big block killers. They put that car in the 426 Hemi's NHRA class. The magazine test was actually poor with only a 15.1 but I think the people knew better. They are pretty stinking valuable today as well even though not uncommon.
Click to expand...

Matching up the 1966 Chevy 'II' 327/350 HP 'L-79' versus the 1967 Barracuda '383-S'
is not a fair match of equally set up cars.
 
But a car with a big block with 2 extra years of better development in the heat of the musclecar era that costs much more is equally set up? What does equally set up even mean?
 
Hersbird said:
So by unfair comparison you mean one where the Mopar loses? Look I love Mopars but there is a reason they sold 5000+ L79s that year. They were cheap and they were big block killers. They put that car in the 426 Hemi's NHRA class. The magazine test was actually poor with only a 15.1 but I think the people knew better. They are pretty stinking valuable today as well even though not uncommon.
Click to expand...

ok then, let's put the 'hotter 327' up against a fairlane thunderbolt.

You know, since they were 'big block killers', it would be a fair race.
 
69 Cuda 440 said:
Matching up the 1966 Chevy 'II' 327/350 HP 'L-79' versus the 1967 Barracuda '383-S'
is not a fair match of equally set up cars.
Click to expand...

Let's add a camshaft and headers, maybe intake and carb.
 
95teetee said:
ok then, let's put the 'hotter 327' up against a fairlane thunderbolt.

You know, since they were 'big block killers', it would be a fair race.
Click to expand...

Exactly what I was thinking, limited production factory race cars against a $3000 common man car that every small town Chevy dealer had on the lot. Or maybe I was thinking of 383 B bodies, 396 Chevelles, 389 Lemans, and whatever ugly *** Ford they were making with a 390.
 
dwire67 said:
1965 Chevrolet Chevy II Nova SS Coupe 2 Dr with 300 HP 327 Cu In Engine
Shipping Weight: 2882 lbs Wheelbase: 110"

Natural Class F/S and F/SA - 10.50 Lb/HP 2783 -100 2953 11.80 index 11.85 index auto


1967 Plymouth Valiant Barracuda Sedan 2 Dr Hdtp with 280 HP 383 Cu In Engine
Shipping Weight: 3119 lbs Wheelbase: 108"

Natural Class G/S - 11.00 Lb/HP 3080 -39 3250 11.90 0.00
Natural Class E/SA - 10.00 Lb/HP 2980 -139 3150 0.00 11.70 Auto

Current NHRA Stock Clasifaction -
Click to expand...
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Back-in-the-Day in the NHRA

1965 Chevy 'II' Nova 'Super Sport' ............ 327/300 HP 'L-74' ... 4-Speed
#2882 lbs. ~ 300 HP = 9.60 Wt/HP

1965 .......... B/S or B/SA ......... 9.50 to 10.59
1966 .......... C/S or C/SA ......... 9.50 to 10.59
1967 .......... B/S or B/SA ......... 9.50 to 10.59
1968 .......... D/S or D/SA ......... 9.50 to 9.99
1969 .......... E/S or E/SA .......... 9.50 to 9.99
1970 .......... F/S or F/SA .......... 9.50 to 9.99
1971 .......... F/S or F/SA .......... 9.50 to 9.99
1972 .......... A/S or A/SA ......... 9.00 to 9.99
1973 .......... D/S or D/SA ......... 9.50 to 9.99
1974 .......... D/S or D/SA ......... 9.50 to 9.99

In 1975, the 1965 Chevrolet 327/300 HP was re-factored, down 15 HP to 285 HP.
That lowered the Chevy 'II" down one class.

1975 ......... E/S or E/SA .......... 10.00 to 10.49
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As of January 2002,

The 1965 - 327/300 HP was factored down to 265 HP.

2882 lbs. ~ 265 HP = 10.88 Wt/HP ....... F/S or F/SA
 
I had a girlfriend with this particular Nova, or Chevy II. there was no way to keep it from spinning the tires to shreds. Boy that car was fun! BTY this was in 1977. I for sure would rather have the 383 "Cuda.
 
All i have to say is...... GOT TIRES?

The right tires makes all the difference that is how you can tell the "NOOBS" from the "hustlers"....

power under the hood doesn't matter if you can stick it to the street....
 
4-Speed A-833 vs. 4-Speed 'M-21' Close Ratio

With both cars utilizing 7" x 27" tall Cheater-Slicks, for 'fair' off-the-line traction.

Barracuda '383-S' .................................... 3.91 Gears 'Sure-Grip'
vs.
Chevy 'II' Nova 'Super Sport' ..................... 3.73 Gears 'Posi-Traction'

Have to go with the Chevy 'II" here.

14.45 @ 97.83 MPH ............ over ............ 14.63 @ 96.77 MPH

Let's not forget, that the Barracuda was equipped with the 'Inland' shifter........ OUCH.
 
My personal opinion is...

All the 383 cars were a challenge for most owners to make run strong, similar to the 390 powered Ford's. Any of them in factory/driver tune left a lot to be desired, but the 10/20% of guys that could tune, and knew how to drive them to what they were capable of, really enjoyed knocking off some of the better available combinations in the day.....especially on the street.
 
1965 Chevy 'II' Nova 'Super Sport'

What made the 1965 327/300 HP 'L-74' a little more potent.

Exhaust System
* 'Ram-Horn' Exhaust Manifolds with 2.50" Outlets
* Exhaust Pipes {2.50"} from Manifold to Muffler
* Tail Pipes {2.00"}

Truly a 'high-flowing' unrestricted Exhaust System.
 
Johnny T.

Regarding the 1967 Barracuda '383-S'.

Plymouth advertised the 383 with 280 HP, strictly with an attempt in trying to get the
1967 Barracuda into a lower NHRA Class.

Model ................ Shipping Weight ...... Factor ................1967 Class
Notchback ................. #3119 lbs. ........... 11.14 ............. C/S or C/SA
Fastback ................... #3202 lbs ............. 11.44 ............ D/S or D/SA
Convertible ................ #3224 lbs. ............ 11.51 ............ D/S or D/SA

NHRA Classes ..... Wt/HP
* A/S ........ 8.70 to 9.49
* B/S ........ 9.50 to 10.59
* C/S ........ 10.60 to 11.29
* D/S ........ 11.30 to 11.88
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But, on the way to the 1967 NHRA Classes >

In one of the 'first' Horsepower Factor changes by the NHRA, they did not fall
for the 'lower' 280 HP rating of the 383 in the A-Body Barracuda.

The NHRA re-factored the 383/280 HP to '300 HP' for 1967. And, they kept it
at 300 HP all the way thru 1978.

Re-factored at 300 HP
* Notchback ...... 10.39 Wt/HP
* Fastback ........ 10.67 Wt/HP
* Convertible .... 10.74 Wt/HP
 
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