'Match Race 1969' 440 'Cuda vs 440 'Six-Barrel' Road Runner

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Shipping Weights, as per NHRA {Factoring Weight}

1969 440 'Cuda................................................#3279lbs.

1969 Road Runner 'Coupe' 440 'Six-Barrel'......#3535 lbs.
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Issue here with the 440 'Cuda was the weight distribution;

* 57.2% Front = #1879 lbs.
* 42.8% Back = #1400 lbs.

The 440 Engine put #709 lbs. on the Nose.

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Performance results for the 'stock' 1969 440 'Cuda

* 14.01 @ 103.81 MPH {w/3.55 Gears}
* 13.89 @ 103.21 MPH {w/3.91 Gears}
* 13.71 @ 105.00 MPH {w/3.91 Gears}

* 13.62 @ 106.13 MPH {w/3.91 Gears}

Note; The above Elapsed Time included; 70/30 Front Shocks, and 'extended-travel' Chrysler Imperial Rear Shocks.
 
From 1969 Magazine Performance Tests,

* Speed and Supercar Magazine
* Car and Driver
* Car Craft
* Super Stock & Drag Illustrated

Another Test Below

Motor Trend {1969 Road Runner 440 'Six-Barrel' - 4-Speed}

* 13.88 @ 106.13 MPH
 
John,

1969 Road Runner 'Coupe'{shipping weights}

* 383............................. #3437 lbs.
* 440 'Six-Barrel'............#3535 lbs.
* 426 'Street Hemi'.........#3668 lbs.

The 440 'Six-Barrel'
* Fiberglass Hood............ #21 lbs.

The Steel Hood {#57 lbs.} and Hood Hinge Assembly Units {#30 lbs.}= 87 lbs.

The Fiberglass Hood Unit saved {66 lbs.} off the nose.

And the Edelbrock 'Six-Barrel' Intake {21 lbs.} weighed less than the 'stock'
cast iron 440 '4-Barrel' Intake {41 lbs.}, saving another 20 lbs. off the car.

Code RM21 {Coupe}

th
 
69 Cuda 440 said:
John,

1969 Road Runner 'Coupe'{shipping weights}

* 383............................. #3437 lbs.
* 440 'Six-Barrel'............#3535 lbs.
* 426 'Street Hemi'.........#3668 lbs.

The 440 'Six-Barrel'
* Fiberglass Hood............ #21 lbs.

The Steel Hood {#57 lbs.} and Hood Hinge Assembly Units {#30 lbs.}= 87 lbs.

The Fiberglass Hood Unit saved {66 lbs.} off the nose.

And the Edelbrock 'Six-Barrel' Intake {21 lbs.} weighed less than the 'stock'
cast iron 440 '4-Barrel' Intake {41 lbs.}, saving another 20 lbs. off the car.

Code RM21 {Coupe}

th
Click to expand...

Great info there!


So if the fiberglass hood saved 66lbs over the standard 440, the lighter intake manifold saved 21lbs (87lbs total lighter over the 440 4bbl car!!) but it still weighs 98lbs more than a 383 car???

Where is that weight coming from?
 
Generally Speaking,

For 1969 B-Body Performance Cars, when using the the 383 Car as the 'base weight'.

The 440 Car with an 8 3/4" Rear-End was approximately +85 lbs. heavier.

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Weight Numbers

The 440 Engine {670 lbs.} weighs {+50 lbs.} heavier than the 383 Engine {620 lbs.}

The Dana 9 1/4" Rear-End weighs {+53 lbs.} heavier than the 8 3/4" Rear-End.
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Also, the 1969 Road Runner 440 'Six-Barrel' had some additional 'Heavy-Duty' Suspension
components.
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Note; {From the Factory}

Though they were never produced, a 'bare bones' 1969 Road Runner 'Coupe' with a 440 'Super Commando'
and an 8 3/4" Rear-End would weigh in at approximately #3522 lbs. {less any Bells and Whistles}.

Now, add in the 9 1/4" Dana Rear-End, and upgraded 'suspension components', and the Road Runner
would come in at #3621 lbs.

Remove the 'steel' Hood and Hood Hinge Assembly Units, and replace them with a Fiberglass Hood, and
you save {66 lbs.}.

Replace the 'cast iron' Intake with an 'Aluminum Intake' and you save another {20 lbs.}.

#3621 lbs. - #86 lbs. = #3535 lbs.

That is the 1969 Road Runner 'A12' 440 Six-Barrel.
 
The first of the A12's did not have the Hemi/ heavy duty suspension. Id really have to do some digging to find the scale ticket of my 6BBL. pullin this outa my butt I wanna say my car was 3550 with me in it. That's no spare, and low fuel.
 
Mr. Vitamin C,

The first few were also built with 'light' 10" Drum Brakes, to save even more weight.

But that was 'outright' crazy.

The 11" Heavy-Duty Units (Front 11.0" x 3.00") and (11.00" x 2.50" Rear) were quickly
added to the '1st Production Run'.
 
So is there an answer here or just info to let us debate?
 
It wouldn't be fair to match up the 440 'Cuda {Automatic Only}
with the Road Runner 4-Speed 440 'Six-Barrel'.

But against the 'Automatic' we might have a 'Race'.

Magazine Performance Tests {Automatic Transmission}

440 'Cuda
* 14.01 @ 103.81 MPH {3.55 Gears}
* 13.92 @ 103.00 MPH {3.91 Gears}
* 13.89 @ 103.21 MPH {3.91 Gears}
* 13.71 @ 105.00 MPH {3.91 Gears}
* 13.62 @ 106.13 MPH {3.91 Gears} {with 70/30 Front Shocks and 'extended travel' Chrysler Imperial Rear-Shocks}

Road Runner 440 'Six-Barrel'
* 13.99 @ 100.55 MPH {4.10 Gears}
* 13.88 @ 102.10 MPH {4.10 Gears}
* 13.83 @ 103.36 MPH {4.10 Gears}
* 13.56 @ 105.60 MPH {4.10 Gears}
* 13.47 @ 106.63 MPH {4.10 Gears} {with Performance Tune-up}
 
I'd like to know heads up, with slicks. We know the cuda was traction limited with the 14.0s runs,having to be rolled out off the line and still having traction issues.
 
Remember, back in 1969

Stock Class was limited to 7" Width Slicks.

Here is what I have in my old Magazines.

Stock Engines and Factory Installed Gears

Road Runner 440 '6-Barrel' - 4.10 Gears - w/Automatic and 7" Slicks x 29" Tall, on 15" x 7" Rims.
* 13.48 @ 106.67 MPH

440 'Cuda - 3.91 Gears - w/Automatic and 7" Slicks x 28" Tall, on 14" x 6" Rims
* 13.49 @ 105.92 MPH
 
I thought the cuda 440 was a standard 440 rated at 350 horse, due to the restrictive exhaust.
 
fishmens67 said:
I thought the cuda 440 was a standard 440 rated at 350 horse, due to the restrictive exhaust.
Click to expand...

No,

In 1969 it came through from the factory rated at 375 HP
despite it's restrictive exhaust system.

NHRA re-factored it to 356 HP in the mid-1970's.
 
The cuda is at a severe carb disadvantage compared to the A12.No way the cuda would run with an A12 in PURESTOCK form.
 
69 Cuda 440 said:
Remember, back in 1969

Stock Class was limited to 7" Width Slicks.

Here is what I have in my old Magazines.

Stock Engines and Factory Installed Gears

Road Runner 440 '6-Barrel' - 4.10 Gears - w/Automatic and 7" Slicks x 29" Tall, on 15" x 7" Rims.
* 13.48 @ 106.67 MPH

440 'Cuda - 3.91 Gears - w/Automatic and 7" Slicks x 28" Tall, on 14" x 6" Rims
* 13.49 @ 105.92 MPH
Click to expand...


That's pretty darn close right there...
 
Some later numbers,

In 1975

NHRA National Records for C/SA
ET.........11.93..... 1970 Buick 'GS 455'
MPH... 113.83..... 1969 Road Runner 440 'Six-Barrel'

Our 'Drag Racing' 1969 440 'Cuda was running 12.15's at that time.

Our 440 'Cuda was also classed in C/SA with the new Horsepower factors.



The 440 'Six Barrel' had way too much 'carburetion' for us to catch them.

Those Holley #2300 Series Two-Barrel Carbs {Center = 350 CFM} and
{2 Outboard = 500 CFM each} 'ate-us-up' on 'Top End'.

th
 
69 Cuda 440 said:
Mr. Vitamin C,

The first few were also built with 'light' 10" Drum Brakes, to save even more weight.

But that was 'outright' crazy.

The 11" Heavy-Duty Units (Front 11.0" x 3.00") and (11.00" x 2.50" Rear) were quickly
added to the '1st Production Run'.
Click to expand...
This im going to have to call out! I have a first run, very early car,(about 8th in line on the registry) and it has 11'' manual drum brakes. I would doubt any 6BBL or 6Packs made it out with 10'' brakes!
 
Vitamin C,

You're on,

One of the first 1969 'Super Bee' 440 'Six-Pack' cars was equipped with 'Power Assisted'
10" Drum Brakes and 3.55 Gears.

Now, it may have been the 'Test Mule', but that was what was reported. My best guess, was that it
was a 1969 Coronet 383/330 HP, and then converted to a 440 'Six-Pack', or a possible 'one-of'
1969 Super Bee 'special' platform car.

I'll post the article....Hold on for a minute.

Here it is......................

cars69sixpackroadtest4.jpg
 
69 Cuda 440 said:
Vitamin C,

You're on,

One of the first 1969 'Super Bee' 440 'Six-Pack' cars was equipped with 'Power Assisted'
10" Drum Brakes and 3.55 Gears.

Now, it may have been the 'Test Mule', but that was what was reported. My best guess, was that it
was a 1969 Coronet 383/330 HP, and then converted to a 440 'Six-Pack', or a possible 'one-of'
'special platform car.

I'll post the article....Hold on for a minute.

Here it is......................

cars69sixpackroadtest4.jpg
Click to expand...
Still not buyin it! Test mule maybe. Article is clearly not from a mopar fan .Any known to exist?
 
Even when comparing auto to auto as already pointed out all 440s except the 6 pack came with a low stall big converter. So add the gear advantage, to the high stall, to the intake and exhaust advantage, and 300 pounds is nothing. Especially when a bunch of that extra weight is over the rear tires. The 6 pack when tuned well would run with a hemi.
 
Hersbird said:
Even when comparing auto to auto as already pointed out all 440s except the 6 pack came with a low stall big converter. So add the gear advantage, to the high stall, to the intake and exhaust advantage, and 300 pounds is nothing. Especially when a bunch of that extra weight is over the rear tires. The 6 pack when tuned well would run with a hemi.
Click to expand...

Agree Hersbird,

Too much for the 69' 440 'Cuda to overcome, not including the
special components inside the 440 '6-Barrel' Engine, especially
in 'stock trim' or early Stocker Days with maximum-width 7" Slicks.

Plus the 'Fresh-Air Induction' coming in from the 'big-mouth' Hood Scoop.
 
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