Missed on this combo?

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The first few lines were an echo of what you said, the rest wasn't directed toward you..oh and YES to the ssr of a w2....essentially that is the shape you want to create to make those factory iron door stop heads into something.

No! The shape is wrong but the material is there to work with. Have you ever flowed an untouched W2? They flow a whopping 231-232 cfm peak! But an hour of massaging and they are tickling 290 cfm with KILLER low lift. The shape is all wrong in this example too but at least you have something to work with. J.Rob
 
No! The shape is wrong but the material is there to work with. Have you ever flowed an untouched W2? They flow a whopping 231-232 cfm peak! But an hour of massaging and they are tickling 290 cfm with KILLER low lift. The shape is all wrong in this example too but at least you have something to work with. J.Rob
Take me literally why don't you...lol
Yeah no ****, Ive flowed quite a few. I'm talking about what you have to work with to start , its not hard get the numbers with that as cast turn. Now for a sec stop thinking w2, that general shape ,more laid back , can do very well on a j head ...but we aren't screwing with this in Mike's thread. However this is fact, tested myself , idgas if no one here agrees... they can do it how they want. :)
 

You quoted in my quote. So make's it hard to work with.

But I'll try and reply.

Yes. I know it hurts. When you buy a head and EXPECT less performance. What has the mopar world come to when we do that? Have we all become so jaded we expect less? I'm glad you also don't consider it money lost. And yes, no one wants to default on their mortgage. I certainly hope you aren't just to see what these heads do. I would never want to see another mopar engine builder, especially a fellow canuck, go under just for the sake of us. I know you bought them with maybe a higher expectation than you got. I think that's garbage. I don't think its unreasonable to expect what a supplier says these heads will do. No matter what, it is still "money well spent" in my opinion. And here's why. You spent money I didn't have to. To test these heads. To see how they do. Even if they don't make the power you expected them to. Don't think of it as money lost. Think of it as advertising dollars spent. You have earned me (and others) as a customer and a believer because you spent your money to try and save ours. If that makes sense.

I have maybe had a dozen Canadian beers. So I MIGHT not be making complete sense here.

I wish people could be held accountable. That's why I was "all over" the subject earlier. Telling Mike that these heads are NOT impressive. I am not impressed by ported stock level flows. I am not impressed by their CNC work. The only way Hughes (or anyone else for that matter) will change their tune. Is if we call them on their ****. If I was Mike. I would have had these heads flowed at 3 different shops. Taken the numbers to hughes and said:

Why the **** do my heads, that I paid X thousands of dollars for, flow SO much less on three different flow benches? WHY do my heads FLOW no more than a stock ported iron head? WHY should I have paid for this level of work, when it's (however much) under what you say?

I hate to *****, moan, or complain. But I guarantee you by the end of my phone call with hughes. I'd have a free set of heads in my hand and probably a free set of rockers. They will only allow this sort of thing to happen as long as we LET THEM. And Mike. This is no dig at you, I'm saying you've done anything wrong, or that you've handled this situation wrong, so don't take it that way. I'm just a guy who's been involved in engines and cars since forever. I've worked with race cars, drag cars, sprint cars. So I'm know what it takes to get a builders attention. I've been in the pits next to a guy who's engine doesn't run. Or he has whatever problem. And he's pissed because he can't win the feature that night. Or he can't even RACE. When all he wants to do is get out there and make laps. So I KNOW that frustration. I've been the guy throwing my hat in the dirt going "WELL WHAT THE ****" because of whatever stupid thing.

And at the end of the day. The only people who CAN hold those people accountable. Are us. The customer. The consumer. Only when we put the suppliers feet to the fire. Will we see change. Yes it's nice and easy to go through life saying "Well what I got from them wasn't enough so next time I'll go somewhere else". But we need to push them for more. If Hughes saw this thread. And KNEW that say a half dozen or dozen customer's were no longer considering buying their head's because of it. How quick do you think things would change?

And yes. I come from a "fix it till it works" world as well. But whatever happened to "Make the supplier fix it till it works"?

At the end of all this rambling though. I do HONESTLY appreciate the work you do J.Rob. Along with all the other builders on here. Every dollar you spend to give me more info is greatly appreciated. I mean that.
 
The mags actually were sources of good knowledge and info, similar to a site like FABO, back in the day (1970's). Now they just have 'builds' to advertise parts and shops. I remember when the C&D staff would put together their own engines work out all the details THEMSELVES.

It's the difference between 'car guys' and 'journalists'....
I do as well. Way back when I built a 448 with an offset ground 440 crank and big block Chevy rods based on an article by Tony DeFeo. The article told you it wasn't going to be an optimum build because of the narrower rod journals on the Chevy rods. Nothing in the article was about a specific manufacturers parts, it was just about the build itself. I've done 4 other motors since and that one is still my favorite and was the best overall. All my builds since have been those "use this manufacturers part" type of build and not necessarily what makes sense for me. I am in the middle of redoing my 526" and am going back to putting together what makes sense to me. Hopefully the end result will be as fun as that 448".
 
.004" is an average human hair.

**** YEAH it stings!! I heard a thousand "OH NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO's" when I felt the S.S. and saw the bowl and ................ Realized I paid!!. J.Rob
Glad I'm not alone. Feel your pain, brutha. I'll bet you have the tools, and skills to fix them though. At least I hope so.
 
Glad I'm not alone. Feel your pain, brutha. I'll bet you have the tools, and skills to fix them though. At least I hope so.

Nope, repair would out weigh the return. We are talking welding, removing seat inserts, re-installing seats, porting, valve jobbing, resurfacing--forget it. It is what it is at this point. J.Rob
 
No! The shape is wrong but the material is there to work with. Have you ever flowed an untouched W2? They flow a whopping 231-232 cfm peak! But an hour of massaging and they are tickling 290 cfm with KILLER low lift. The shape is all wrong in this example too but at least you have something to work with. J.Rob



I'm hoping to do 305-310 CFM at .750...maybe .800 and have the port not drop off at 1 inch of lift. I'm going to have to dick with them a bunch, but I'm going to leave them oval, use a 1.500-1.550 exhaust and no bigger than a 2.05 intake.

That's my goal anyway with the W-2's I have on the shelf out there.
 
Yeah you mentioned head flow in post #3 but I laser pointered the "murdered S.S." in post #12 only because I have first hand experience with them. I even drew a crude diagram. This is why W2's work so well! It isn't just because of the oval port and offset rockers. It's due in large part to the VERY tall S.S. It's so tall you have to reduce it for optimum low and high lift flow. Toot-toot. J.Rob

Agreed... I knew the heads were a big contributing factor but needed to see them to know exactly why. I've handled the as-cast LAXs. Once I picked them up I decided there was tremendous value in using aluminum...lol
 
I just spent over an hour of my life reading this interesting thread and just when it starts to get to the bit we all want to read, 600hp and gobs of torque.............nothing, did the BPE heads get dyno'd and what were the results???
 
I just spent over an hour of my life reading this interesting thread and just when it starts to get to the bit we all want to read, 600hp and gobs of torque.............nothing, did the BPE heads get dyno'd and what were the results???

Nothing yet....
 
The Bloomer heads just got here a week ago. I ain't no magician. They're bare. Have to assemble them, bolt them on then re-port my Super Victor to match these ports.....believe me. I'm going as fast as I can brutha!

Right in the middle of all this, my fuel pressure regulator takes a crap. First big cruise night is Friday. Not enough hours in the day. Oh yeah. My grass needs cut, too. All 4 acres.

The GOOD news is, I sold the Eddy's. Told the dude exactly what they are, gave him the flow numbers. I THINK since I got the used heads basically for free, I might only have lost a couple hundred bucks to Hughes. Keeping my springs, retainers and valves for the Bloomers. Drop in fit.

Realistically I think I will be on the dyno late next week. Barring some other friggin issue...
 
I just spent over an hour of my life reading this interesting thread and just when it starts to get to the bit we all want to read, 600hp and gobs of torque.............nothing, did the BPE heads get dyno'd and what were the results???
Come on, it's a good thread, though. You learn, you get to see someone else suffer rotten service and setbacks, what else could a guy want?

I think I'll be sad when it's all done. I feel like I know half of these guys. I fell like some are really rooting me on..I sure as hell learned a lot about heads. And I'm OLD.

600? The goal here is a solid 575 with gobs of torque. Never did I ever mention 600.
 
No, I was talking about my heads. But if Mike sends me his heads or just one, I'd FLOW IT FOR FREE. That offer still stands.
Again, can't tell ya how much I appreciate the offer. If it was dead winter I would take you up on it. Just no damn time. I'm not even sure I want to see independent numbers on these heads. Maybe best for me to just bolt them on. If the dyno spits out bad numbers, I might send one your way!
 
Again, can't tell ya how much I appreciate the offer. If it was dead winter I would take you up on it. Just no damn time. I'm not even sure I want to see independent numbers on these heads. Maybe best for me to just bolt them on. If the dyno spits out bad numbers, I might send one your way!



Just know my offer always stands.
 
but just don't let it get too tall
6fa44358b45d1a951a4f7ee09da359e8.jpg
 
These BPE heads are hard on Dynos...still waiting for someone to run a set and post results....
 
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