Moog camber kit junk?

-
Airmonger

Airmonger

Active Member
Joined
Apr 4, 2024
Messages
41
Reaction score
70
Location
Canyon Lake Texas
Hi folks.

This is a pretty straight forward question with related back ground.

I recently decided to do the front disc brake upgrade on my 67 Cuda.
I received the brake kit with the purchase of the car. Unknown supplier, but the calipers have Penstar castings on them. Most likely aftermarket upper A-arms and ball joints. Just about everything went pretty smoothly with the exception of having to torch out the original cam bolts.
I sourced the Moog camber kits locally from Orielly auto parts. Seemed like solid parts but what do I know.
While trying to do a basic alignment to enable the car to be driven to my alignment shop, the camber bolts essentially rolled right through the washer keyways and obviously are unable to be used to adjust the camber now.
Any suggestions for a supplier or brand name quality part? After doing more research, I understand that Moog quality is no longer up to par.
I only want to do this one more time. The auto parts store accused me more or less of applying too much force on them. Pretty difficult to do with a 3/4 inch hand wrench, which is all you can get in there with.
I appreciate any info available from anyone else this has happened to.
 
OEM is probably best. Good, used should do well. I think Jim @hemi71x has had them for sale on FABO before. Maybe he can chime in if he has any available.
If not, consider putting up a "Wanted" ad, and you should turn up some.
 
Pix would help a whole bunch, as parts mentioned are pretty standard throughout Mopar.
You may have "torched" too much.
 
Last edited:
Airmonger said:
Hi folks.

This is a pretty straight forward question with related back ground.

I recently decided to do the front disc brake upgrade on my 67 Cuda.
I received the brake kit with the purchase of the car. Unknown supplier, but the calipers have Penstar castings on them. Most likely aftermarket upper A-arms and ball joints. Just about everything went pretty smoothly with the exception of having to torch out the original cam bolts.
I sourced the Moog camber kits locally from Orielly auto parts. Seemed like solid parts but what do I know.
While trying to do a basic alignment to enable the car to be driven to my alignment shop, the camber bolts essentially rolled right through the washer keyways and obviously are unable to be used to adjust the camber now.
Any suggestions for a supplier or brand name quality part? After doing more research, I understand that Moog quality is no longer up to par.
I only want to do this one more time. The auto parts store accused me more or less of applying too much force on them. Pretty difficult to do with a 3/4 inch hand wrench, which is all you can get in there with.
I appreciate any info available from anyone else this has happened to.
Click to expand...
Start a Parts Wanted thread if you need originals.
 
Moog is the only source for offset UCA bushings, which I assume is what you have since you’re talking about a “camber kit”, which is pretty much always used to correct caster on these cars and not camber.

Pictures would be a huge help, because we don’t know how you installed all of the parts or if you have damaged your mounts in the process.
 
Some brands put the flat all the way down the shaft of the bolt, others just put the flat on the threads...

I would go with the ones that put the flat on the threads only so the shaft of the bolt is stronger...
 
Inertia said:
Pix would help a whole bunch, as parts mentioned are pretty standard throughout Mopar.
You may have "torched" too much.
Click to expand...
No, no damage from cutting the old ones out. Retired steel worker here. I've got a handle on a cutting rig.
But I will say this. The Moog bolts are too short. After removing them today, I see that the eccentric washer never made it to the actual shoulder of the bolt itself. It spun on the threaded area of the bolt just short of the actual shank. It's only money right?
 
The cam bolt must be loose to adjust, then tighten the bolt after the eccentrics are rotated to where you want them to be. The bolt is for clamping once positioned.
 
MV8 said:
The cam bolt must be loose to adjust, then tighten the bolt after the eccentrics are rotated to where you want them to be. The bolt is for clamping once positioned.
Click to expand...
When I removed the bolts, positioned the washer plates to where they should be seated on the shoulder of the bolt, they are 5/16 of an inch too narrow. Simply put, they are too short to work properly. In tightening them to be snug, it actually bent the eccentric when they pulled in. Simply incorrect application.
 
Airmonger said:
When I removed the bolts, positioned the washer plates to where they should be seated on the shoulder of the bolt, they are 5/16 of an inch too narrow. Simply put, they are too short to work properly. In tightening them to be snug, it actually bent the eccentric when they pulled in. Simply incorrect application.
Click to expand...

It would be really helpful for you to post pictures of the bolts so we could see what you're describing. A measurement from the eccentric under the head of the bolt out to the shoulder/flat area would also be helpful, as I'm sure there are plenty of us with OE bolts laying around that could be measured and compared.

I'm not saying the Moog bolts aren't junk, but that's not the only possible explanation. It's not uncommon at all for the suspension mounting points themselves to be bent, that actually happens quite a lot. And it wouldn't surprise me at all if every eccentric washer wasn't bottomed against the shoulder on the bolt when fully torqued, because that leaves you no tolerance from one car to another. If that eccentric bottoms out before the UCA mount has enough clamp force on it then the camber bolt will continue to move. It's happened before, and having the eccentric washer bottom out too soon is a much larger problem than not having it bottomed out.
 
Also, it is possible the kit you have is the wrong box/part number or right box with the wrong/swapped contents. It happens a lot.
Some folks buy the wrong thing, later when it is time to wrench realize it is the wrong thing (too late to return), order the right thing, then return with the wrong thing for a refund.

Pictures are important. No judgement on grease, or rust, or not knowing how to post pictures if that is the case.
 
I had the same problem when adjusting my arms with one of my new bolts. The bolt would spin inside the washer so then both washers weren’t angled the same orientation. Ended up just reusing one of the old bolts.
 
OldManMopar on here, Steve, is a well know Mopar pretty much expert. he claims he wrecked his very nice Duster because of aftermarket upper A arm bolts.
 
Andy Willy said:
I had the same problem when adjusting my arms with one of my new bolts. The bolt would spin inside the washer so then both washers weren’t angled the same orientation. Ended up just reusing one of the old bolts.
Click to expand...
Pretty much what has occurred on mine. No rhyme or reason from what I can see.
The auto parts store made good on them, this set seems to be OK.
I'm moving forward.
 
many years ago, when I was still an alignment tech, I discovered that the Moog bolts were TOO LONG, and/or the flats too short on the threaded end. Thus when I tightened them down, they would not hold the adjustment. My solution at that time was to go to a farm-supply house, and get hardened washers, one for each side. One went first-on/under the head and the other last-on/under the nut. theses were thick washers and I gained more room than I needed. Thus, I never had a come-back.

From your experience, it seems like Moog has now gone the other way, making the bolts too short, and/or the cams are just too thin.

Since you are a welder, what's wrong with just tack-welding one of the cams onto the bolt head? and orienting that side outboard, to where it's easiest to adjust.
If the kit supplied spring-type locking washers, throw them away, to get nearly a full 1/8th more bolt; and just Blue loc-tite the nuts. I mean; that's what I would do.
 
AJ/FormS said:
many years ago, when I was still an alignment tech, I discovered that the Moog bolts were TOO LONG, and/or the flats too short on the threaded end. Thus when I tightened them down, they would not hold the adjustment. My solution at that time was to go to a farm-supply house, and get hardened washers, one for each side. One went first-on/under the head and the other last-on/under the nut. theses were thick washers and I gained more room than I needed. Thus, I never had a come-back.

From your experience, it seems like Moog has now gone the other way, making the bolts too short, and/or the cams are just too thin.

Since you are a welder, what's wrong with just tack-welding one of the cams onto the bolt head? and orienting that side outboard, to where it's easiest to adjust.
If the kit supplied spring-type locking washers, throw them away, to get nearly a full 1/8th more bolt; and just Blue loc-tite the nuts. I mean; that's what I would do.
Click to expand...
Yes sir, I thought about that after the fact. Damage is done.

20241115_122227.jpg


20241115_122221.jpg
 
Not ideal unthreaded shank length, but those adjusters can be reused. You might need to hold the eccentric washer from rotating with a flat screwdriver wedge while tightening. The damage is from using the bolt head to turn the eccentric washer with the threaded section. Don't weld the area to build it up which will anneal/soften the bolt. To determine if you need a washer to prevent a loss of thread engagement when tight, measure the thread length protruding from the nut when torqued, add the nut height, and see if that length is in the damaged area or just add a heavy washer. Looks like you have plenty of excess thread length.

Picture of the installation with the cocked or bent eccentric? Is it the same situation on both sides? Damage when torching out the original bolts? A loose fit to the bolt shank means the eccentric may not stay square/parallel to the nut face if the car flange surfaces are not level and square. It doesn't have to be perfect.
 
IMO not worth reusing. The parts store ordered the replacement parts. Should be here today. No particular hurry to get the job done. If I was in a bind, I could see your suggestion being beneficial. I would rather start fresh for peace of mind.
 
Hi, you may know this may not. A friend made this error and the control arm bolts kept loosing off stripping the bolts..

Ensure you install the cam bolts correctly, The bolt goes in from the inside of the control arm to the outside so the nut would be on the outside. If not this way they will loosen.
 
marksmopar1 said:
Hi, you may know this may not. A friend made this error and the control arm bolts kept loosing off stripping the bolts..

Ensure you install the cam bolts correctly, The bolt goes in from the inside of the control arm to the outside so the nut would be on the outside. If not this way they will loosen.
Click to expand...

Yeah that’s not at all true.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
-

Back
Top