Mopar Action SB head article

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[quote
Getting back to the topic of heads. I have a SB 408 with RHS 360Magnum heads that got 2.02/1.62 valves and a mild porting job. The heads do a great job with 10.8 CR that turned out 520HP. We did not have them flow tested as there was no bench available, but estimate about 270 cfm.[/quote]

What cam are you running? I'm just about done with my 408 with EQ heads with 2.02's. They are supposed to flow about 270 cfm's on the intake side. Just trying to guess my HP #s before the Dyno run.
 
HemiMark said:
I make pizza............
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I like pizza! There has been times over the years that I wished I could do something like a pizza shop.

When you have a multi million dollar navigation system that won't pass final test the pressure to solve the problem fast is enormous.
 
LXguy said:
I didn't realize the LT1 head was ballyhooed. The Ford GT-40P head is vastly superior and the LS1 head makes it look like a frigging joke. I guess it was a head that the stock Magnum could beat, so they picked it.

I did think their flowbench results with the EQ magnum were interesting. If that's even half accurate, thats the biggest bargain in performance heads for Mopar ever.

One of the Ford magazines actually ran a cylinder head shootout a couple of years ago where they took all the common Ford heads and gave flowbench and dyno results of each. I'm sure it was a *lot* of work for some poor bastard, but it was entertaining and informative.

I'd really like to see a dyno comparison of the EQ magnum and the Edelbrock Magnum on a 5.9 on an engine dyno.

:-D
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I remember back in the old days (early '70s) the car mags drooled over the LT1 like it was the best small block ever produced. Of course, if Chrysler had put as much high performace work into their engines, they would have been as expensive as the Chebbies back then.

I agree that the next step Mopar Action should take is a dyno test with the heads on the same engine and then another dyno test to see which cam and induction and exhaust systems would work best with each combo to maximize the output of each design. Might be interesting.
 
dgc333 said:
No myth just plane simple physics. The aluminum sucks away more heat than iron, less heat means less cylinder pressure which means less power.

Why do you think they tell you run more compression with aluminum heads? Its to make up for the lost heat do to aluminums ability to transfer heat better than iron. This is also the reason they put coatings on chambers and piston tops, to keep the heat in the engine for more power.

When you burn a gallon of gasoline it has the potential to release a fixed number of BTUs of energy. Its that energy in the form of heat that pushes the piston down the cylinder. A 4 cycle internal combustion engine is not very efficient. Some of the heat is used to push the piston some is disipated away into the metal of the engine and the rest goes out the exhaust. Anything you can do to keep the heat in the cylinder will make more power.
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Here's the problem, all things being equal then the iron head motor would make more power, not that much more though and since all things are not equal the advantages of an aluminum head far outweigh the little bit of power that is lost to heat dissipation of aluminum. First since AL heads do dissipate heat faster than iron you can run much more compression before detonation, thus more power. AL heads flow better than iron heads. All the high flow race heads are AL, you'll never find iron race heads that can flow with the AL heads. They are lighter and 40 pounds on the nose of a race car is not something to sneeze at. And again they are easily repaired.

So which really is better? Well let's see, is there any NASCAR, Busch, or ARCA team, car or truck running iron heads?

No I don't think so.

How about Pro Stock, any NHRA or IHRA car out there with iron heads?

Hmm, can't think of a single one.

Any one in Pro Mod run an iron head, or any other class in racing where an AL head is allowed?

None that I can think of and certainly none of the top cars.

So while theoretically you are correct, real world reality is AL makes more power.


You can always tell an engineer, you just can't tell him much. :)

(that's a joke)
 
Iron makes more power if all things remain the same, given that those things are designed around the iron head.
When you design the build around the aluminum head, you get more power, period.

What the hell is "aero space"?
roflblack.gif
 
mopar340dave said:
Iron makes more power if all things remain the same, given that those things are designed around the iron head.
When you design the build around the aluminum head, you get more power, period.

What the hell is "aero space"?
roflblack.gif
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Absolutely and that's why I said all things being equal in my original post.

The title on my degree is Aeronautical and Space Engineering, "Aero Space". It's a specialized mechanical engineering degree. It had a lot of emphasis on aerodynamics and thermodynamics
 
Guitar Jones said:
40+ years ago there weren't any aluminum heads. Aluminum heads are practically infinitely repairable where as cast iron really isn't, at least not conviently or reliably.

Since switching to aluminum heads I'll never go back to cast iron but those EQ heads are a real bargain and we may use them on my son's Duster.
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not quite true, Ma Mopar built an all ALU slant 6 way back then..
 
dgc333 said:
Absolutely and that's why I said all things being equal in my original post.

The title on my degree is Aeronautical and Space Engineering, "Aero Space". It's a specialized mechanical engineering degree. It had a lot of emphasis on aerodynamics and thermodynamics
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I was just messin' with ya. It's generally referred to as aerospace. 8)
 
Dakota_Don said:
not quite true, Ma Mopar built an all ALU slant 6 way back then..
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And GM had an all aluminum V8 back then too, what does that prove? Nothing. Early experiments and one off pieces are what developed what is out there now. 40+ years ago there still weren't aluminum cylinder heads like what is available today.

Reminds me of the cartoon where the guy is looking at his watch and asking the dog if he knows what time it is. The dog is saying NOW, NOW, NOW!
 
stroked 340 said:
Steel heads are 40+ year old technology
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So are push rods. We should all be looking for over cam, aluminum head motors,

Some guys like aluminum, Some guys like iron. I cant even remember what this thread was about at this point. :-D
 
Iron head vs aluminum head article. All things being equal, no difference to be found.

http://www.carcraft.com/techarticles/ccrp_0602_iron_versus_aluminum_cylinder_heads_test/index.html

When the results don't match the theory, get a new theory.

Here's the other thing I'd be interested to know. They supposedly had all these cylinder head gurus standing around. Did any of them offer speculation as to why the EQ head flows so much better?

In other news, the results do seem to be semi-confirmed by the "Iron Ram" information on Hughes' website. I did take a good long look at these heads at the Indy Heads swap meet this weekend, and they do appear to be a pretty high quality casting, especially for something that's available for $350 each on Ebay.

Something the article didn't point out is that they do still suffer from the shortcomings of the magnum heads. They need to be machined if you want to put a decent valve spring on them or run a decent amount of cam lift. They are also even heavier than stock Magnum heads. And while the article dissed the Edelbrocks for using Chevy rocker arms (and the stronger 3/8 inch adjustable stud mount arrangement), the only way to get adjustable roller rockers on these EQ heads is to buy a stud mount rocker conversion kit and a set of Chevy rocker arms, and it still won't be as strong as the Edelbrocks because the stud likely uses the existing 5/16 hole for the pedestal mount rockers.

All that said, the most useful piece of information in the article (if it's true) is that the Edelbrock Magnum heads do not in fact have a 58cc chamber. That would be pretty disappointing.

Steve
 
LXguy said:
Iron head vs aluminum head article. All things being equal, no difference to be found
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Just ANOTHER misleading magazine article..car craft should tell ALL the prostock and top fuel teams that they should be running steel heads because they'll be going just as fast..lol..magazines will print anything that will sell there product..
 
Very interesting!

Notice the cam they were using was pretty big..550 lift and 260 duration solid is nothing to sneeze at. Would bleed a fair amount of pressure out,but even so they had 185 cranking psi.

I think aluminum is being used mainly as a weight saving material. After all,it is much more expensive to produce than cast iron. Just my opinion...

The article does mention that they never came close to detonation with either head. Both heads have the modern fast burn heart shaped chamber (like a magnum or gasp! vortex). Maybe todays blended gasohol resists detonation much better and thus thier comparison is invalid? Dunno,I am ignorant here.

So does this mean that I would run out and spend $1500 for aluminum heads as compared to maybe $900-$1000 for EQ irons? Depends on your wallet I guess. For an all out track car I'd go aluminum,as long as the heads flow. For a street /strip car that doesnt see a lot of track time,Id stick with cast iron.
 
stroked 340 said:
Just ANOTHER misleading magazine article..car craft should tell ALL the prostock and top fuel teams that they should be running steel heads because they'll be going just as fast..lol..magazines will print anything that will sell there product..
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car craft does say there is no advantage...in fact, they actually state that you get the advantage with aluminum heads of the light weight, which is why most race teams use obviously, and for other reasons as well...i think it was a great test, and it sheds light on the fact that there is really is no difference, other than weight...My buddy's 800hp chevelle makes the same amount of power with his ported iron heads as it does with the 3k brodix heads he put on...go figure, other than weight theres not advantage for him either
 
mshred said:
car craft does say there is no advantage...in fact, they actually state that you get the advantage with aluminum heads of the light weight, which is why most race teams use obviously, and for other reasons as well...i think it was a great test, and it sheds light on the fact that there is really is no difference, other than weight...My buddy's 800hp chevelle makes the same amount of power with his ported iron heads as it does with the 3k brodix heads he put on...go figure, other than weight theres not advantage for him either
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Right! Lightweight = Faster!!! I cant disagree that loosing 50 lb's is good. Same reason most track cars have alloy rims,light weight seats,gutted interiors etc etc etc
 
and for other reasons as well...
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Ya,because aluminum heads are better!!!..and if your buddys car did'nt pick up anything from switching to aluminum something is wrong..then again its a chevy...
 
There just aren't any iron heads that can flow better than aluminums. It's aluminum heads biggest advantage, period. Most guys that knock AL heads have never had them, but once they do they'll never go back.
 
stroked 340 said:
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Ya,because aluminum heads are better!!!..and if your buddys car did'nt pick up anything from switching to aluminum something is wrong..then again its a chevy...
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nothing wrong with my buddy's chevelle...The amount of work he has done to those heads is insane, so it flows real good....honestly in my opinion only thing better about aluminum is they are new, so a better design and are light...other than that in my opinion theres not much..thats not to say i wouldnt buy them, because i will one day, but i see nothing wrong with irons either
 
Aluminum is used because it is lighter, easier to modify, and easily repairable. But in order to get the utmost out of them, the engine needs to be built to take advantage without giving up too much to disadvantage. If the race teams could have an iron head that is light, they'd use it. In fact, it can be argued that the use of thermal coating on the chamber basically duplicates the properties of iron in terms of thermal efficiency.
 
I too went to the Mopar trade show in Indy last weekend. Saw the Hughes EQ heads. They looked very good, a quality casting. Dave had a show special $279. each @ the show. Looked to be a very good deal. I also saw the RHS/Indy 360X heads. Very disapointed in the fact they only brought ONE set to the show !! A magnum replacement head, and it was assembled. Really wanted to see the 360X casting for the LA engine. BUT,..they didn't bring one. I wanted to look thru them but really couldn't see into them very well. The chambers are the fast burn type and looked good. I told them I had read the 'head' article in the Mopar Action mag and was disapointed that theirs wasn't included in the 'side-by-side test. They also said they would not be available for sale to the public for another month !! (??). Then I asked about flow numberes and he couldn't tell me anything about them. I was to e-mail him (Sam) and he would send me the flow numbers...That was last Monday...I am still waiting. I don't know..???

Terry
 
I see that Alabama Cylinder Heads has an ad on e-bay for the brand new EQ head bare. They have a buy it now for $240 each plus $35.00 shipping.
Had to beat for a head that is brand new and flows so well.
 
I sure do like my W2 steel heads - they will flow with the indys and the edelbrocks , i sent them to Indy to get ported , they told me my heads were flowing with their heads , i guess i`ll have to deal with an extra 40 LBs
 
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