mufflers

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RPM said:
Funny thing is... at least around here.... 85% or better of the hotrods, muscles, etc.. run Flowmasters.... and when flowmaster came out... why is it that everyone tried duplicating that muffler ??? hmmm ?

The proof is in the pudding..... I drive into a car show... and make my way through the grass I constantly have people following me to my designated spot and asking.... Is that a big block Duster ??? I am like ... " no" and they always say...." sure sounds like it ! What you got for exhaust because that is awesome !" But ya all are right... its subjective. we all hear things differently and at differnt tones and levels... I dont have a tinny sound out of my Flowmasters.... so not real sure what that is.. never heard a tinny sound from any of them. So ... dunno..... calling them "chokemasters" is pretty much just your opinion with no difinative prospect of truth.

-RPM
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Not trying to ruffle your feathers but you must not have looked at that chart on the first page of this thread.

59%!!!!!

That has choke written all over it.


71duster06 said:
Much better throttle response as well. Not all the muffler but a big part.
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I noticed that myself. My engine seems to be "freed up".

skybolt said:
No one has given me hell yet after posting those chebby pictures. lol
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AHHHH! My eyes!!
 
Anyone running the summit 3" mufflers?
I still haven't put them on. You can see clear through them, so with a full exhaust including tailpipes I can't wait to hear them.
 
Oh Wow, The Summit 3" exhaust system is on. And it sounds Awesome!!!
It's just to bad my Holley blue pump decided to go bad. I new it was by the groaning sounds it was making before I started the car up. Good thing is I have a brand new spare one. Tomorrows project is to swap pumps, relocate the shut off switch on the rear bumper, and relocate the fuel filter, as the tail pipes now run where the filter was.
 
Mopower71 said:
Oh Wow, The Summit 3" exhaust system is on. And it sounds Awesome!!!
It's just to bad my Holley blue pump decided to go bad. I new it was by the groaning sounds it was making before I started the car up. Good thing is I have a brand new spare one. Tomorrows project is to swap pumps, relocate the shut off switch on the rear bumper, and relocate the fuel filter, as the tail pipes now run where the filter was.
Click to expand...

Unless your garage has A/C;
dang it's gonna be 100f here, AGAIN,
today and tomorrow, wait till Sunday.

72 here already at 6:50am local time.

Youtube it when your done!

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ud8mci4rjFU"]YouTube- 1964 Valiant dual exhaust[/ame]
 
FWIW, the advertised air flow numbers of a muffler are the last thing you should consider when choosing a muffler. It's the easiest parameter the manufacturers can jockey with to meet their marketing goals. Air Flow is only valid and meaningful if it's given with the pressure drop the number was obtained with. Since there is no mandated test process for muffler air flow that defines a standard pressure drop air flow numbers between manufacturers are useless and even within a manufacturers line of mufflers I wouldn't be surprised if they change the test to get numbers to match the marketing goals.

An example would be manufacturer A tests their mufflers at 1 psi pressure drop and manufacture B tests at 3 psi. A advertises 400 cfm of air flow and B advertises 500 cfm of air flow so you would think B is better but if you were to test A at 3 psi pressure drop it would flow 600 cfm or more a than B. These aren't real numbers just to show how not having all the info you can't compare.

Any perfromance muffler properly sized for the application has the capability of flowing more than enough air to support the engines need without creating a restriction.

Just pick your muffler based on sound, material, gaurentee, workmanship, fit, etc.
 
Caveman, it was super hot yesterday, but the basement/garage we were working in was very cool. I think the duct work for the house A/C helped keep it cool.
 
I'm trying to get the clip from the camera to the computer, and it's being a pain.
Got it there now the movie maker program keeps locking. I need to edit it down so I can upload it. It's 37 meg right now
 
Sound great! I have run the Summit 3" welds for last 3 years. Still sounds sweet. Just have a set of turndowns. Sets off car alarms at shows and raises alot of dust on gravel parking lots, which sucks considering 3 hour polish gone in 30 seconds of parking time. Have to pick cruise sights carefully.
 
71duster06 said:
I just got rid of my super 40 flowmasters. New system is a 2 1/2" x-pipe with Dynomax ultra flow welded. Much much much better sound. Sounds very healthy now and is louder under throttle than the super 40's.


Much better throttle response as well. Not all the muffler but a big part.
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I am thinking of giving these dynomax ultra flow welded muffs a shot.
I currently have thrush non turbo's which is a direct knock off of flowmaster 40's, heavy too.
I love the sound of them but just as abodyjoe said, the drone is what kills you.
I have a 2-1/2 X-pipe system with turn downs before the rear axle so maybe that had something to do with the drone, but I think it will still be there even if I take it all the way past the bumper.

I was told that chambered mufflers is what gives you the droning noise.

Here is my question...are the dynomax utlra flow welded mufflers chambered or no?
 
No, they are packed with acoustic absorption material. No chambers.

Hold off a few more days to let us get data on the new Dynomax VTs. They stop the drone but still sound awesome.

We will have them a 12 second 360 68 Cuda and plan to test the weak and strong spring version on the same car the same day and will have sound level and backpressure measurements.

Tom
 
cudaspaz said:
I am thinking of giving these dynomax ultra flow welded muffs a shot.
I currently have thrush non turbo's which is a direct knock off of flowmaster 40's, heavy too.
I love the sound of them but just as abodyjoe said, the drone is what kills you.
I have a 2-1/2 X-pipe system with turn downs before the rear axle so maybe that had something to do with the drone, but I think it will still be there even if I take it all the way past the bumper.

I was told that chambered mufflers is what gives you the droning noise.

Here is my question...are the dynomax utlra flow welded mufflers chambered or no?
Click to expand...

Packed not chambered

Spaz you remember my vid?



This is with the Dynomax Ultra welded. I however had them ran out the back after this video in which it is really quite compared to what it was with the Flo 40s dumped. They are tucked under the quarters not sticking out the back below the bumper. You'll like them... the vid however is not really that good because when its idling it has a deep rumble to it. In the vid it just sounds like air blowing out of a hose. lol

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TYdeKPIzHt4"]YouTube- Cuda with Dynomax Ultras "welded"[/ame]
 
This may Sound a little odd... But What if I don't my duster to sound like the regular "Bass rumble" but more like one of these:

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mOsnlsRhJgg"]YouTube- Dyno Test of 2009 Aston Martin V8 Vantage[/ame]
[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7P1PL5-tyYA"]YouTube- CLK63 AMG Black Series Dyno Run[/ame]
[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-SEUyM117kw"]YouTube- 2008 XKR Dyno runs after Performance Upgrades[/ame]

With a more baritone howl to it? What kind of mufflers do you think I should run? I know about a lot of things.. But I don't have a lot of experience with mufflers.

Thanks!
 
I think an X-pipe w/ a flowthrough muffler is about the closest you're gonna get without swapping to one of those engines. Its not completely the exhaust system that gives those cars the sexy exhaust note.

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i-gLzKRgIoQ&feature=related"]YouTube- 71 Chevelle / Pypes true duals w 3"X-pipe & Race Pro Mufflers[/ame]

If you wanna go extreme(without spending a ton for an exotic motor) to get that sound, your best bet will be a lexus V8.
[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QtgoFrDGBFE&feature=related"]YouTube- Lexus V8 Powered AE86 Corolla[/ame]

but who wants to go through that much hassle for an engine that doesnt have a ton of aftermarket? and will have half the people on this site calling you unamarican(misspelled for annunciation purposes
 
Okay as promised here is what the new Dynomax VTs do for you.

My brother-in-law has a 1968 360 Barracuda coupe. It runs 12.40s at 108 or so with full relatively quiet exhaust. It had Magnaflow 18" 2.5" offset in and 2.5" center out mufflers with 2.5" inch shop bent tail pipes.

We first installed the stiff spring Walker Dynomax VT 17956 mufflers. The goal was to kill the drone at 1850 rpm up to about 2350 but still have some tone. Boy do they work for this. No roar or resonation anywhere and that is with the back seat out of the car. He runs headers with 3" front pipes to 2.5" out of a true Dr. Gas X-pipe.

We then swapped on the Dynomax VTs with the light spring. These are 17156s. They indeed have more tone and slightly approach resonation in the lower ranges but really they never got there. You all with 340s know exactly the roar and resonation I am talking about.

The sound levels, measured from 10 feet, look like this.
---------------17156 ------ 17956
Idle, 800 rpm-- 78 dBA------- 75 dBA
2200 rpm------ 83.5 dBA ----- 81 dBA
3500 rpm------ 90.5 dBA ----- 91 dBA

Back pressure wise, it is very hard to measure with the tap we had at the collector outlet. Both fluttered around 80 inches of water at cruise but at WOT only slightly rose from this. Bear in mind this includes tailpipes.

What this tells me is this: Walker did a fabulous job of fixing issues with loud mufflers this time. No resonation and yet a really cool idle sound and snarly WOT sound. They really growl at WOT but an outsider can hardly tell they are 3" mufflers with only about a 8" to 10" long perforated sections internally. In other words, these short mufflers do a hell of a job of muffling at cruise and a really tremendous job of eliminating the resonation/drone/roar that pisses off so many people, me included.

Tom
 
DartorDemon said:
I think an X-pipe w/ a flowthrough muffler is about the closest you're gonna get without swapping to one of those engines. Its not completely the exhaust system that gives those cars the sexy exhaust note.

If you wanna go extreme(without spending a ton for an exotic motor) to get that sound, your best bet will be a lexus V8.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QtgoFrDGBFE&feature=related
but who wants to go through that much hassle for an engine that doesnt have a ton of aftermarket? and will have half the people on this site calling you unamarican(misspelled for annunciation purposes
Click to expand...

Yes I know that the engine makes a lot of the difference on how it sounds.. But actually 318 and 360's are really close to the same bore stroke, and none of them are weird firing intervals, So once I change the cam and upgrade heads an such it shouldn't be out of the range of possibility to try for a sound like that. The Chevelle was close to what I am looking for.

And I don't think the lexus engine is what I am looking for. kinda small and anemic for my tastes! haha! thanks for the ideas though!
 
bjkadron said:
Yes I know that the engine makes a lot of the difference on how it sounds.. But actually 318 and 360's are really close to the same bore stroke, and none of them are weird firing intervals, So once I change the cam and upgrade heads an such it shouldn't be out of the range of possibility to try for a sound like that. The Chevelle was close to what I am looking for.

And I don't think the lexus engine is what I am looking for. kinda small and anemic for my tastes! haha! thanks for the ideas though!
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yeah i didnt think so with the lexus engine. They only work well in cars that weigh next to nothing. I think that engine is what they put in the SC400s, yet everyone wants the SC300s because of the potential
 
DartorDemon said:
yeah i didnt think so with the lexus engine. They only work well in cars that weigh next to nothing. I think that engine is what they put in the SC400s, yet everyone wants the SC300s because of the potential
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Yeah but the v8's are great for sticking in early miatas! Sorry for getting off topic folks.

About Mufflers: I found a place that I should be able to try out several varieties of muffler. I'll post video and sound clips when I can.
 
I have friends with big blocks and flowmaster 40 series mufflers. They have an awesome deep, throaty rumble at idle but upon acceleration it sounds awful. Almost like poppin popcorn. Man, that green 'Cuda almost made me cream my pants!!!!!!!!! Love those Ultraflows!
 
dgc333 said:
FWIW, the advertised air flow numbers of a muffler are the last thing you should consider when choosing a muffler. It's the easiest parameter the manufacturers can jockey with to meet their marketing goals. Air Flow is only valid and meaningful if it's given with the pressure drop the number was obtained with. Since there is no mandated test process for muffler air flow that defines a standard pressure drop air flow numbers between manufacturers are useless and even within a manufacturers line of mufflers I wouldn't be surprised if they change the test to get numbers to match the marketing goals.

An example would be manufacturer A tests their mufflers at 1 psi pressure drop and manufacture B tests at 3 psi. A advertises 400 cfm of air flow and B advertises 500 cfm of air flow so you would think B is better but if you were to test A at 3 psi pressure drop it would flow 600 cfm or more a than B. These aren't real numbers just to show how not having all the info you can't compare.

Any perfromance muffler properly sized for the application has the capability of flowing more than enough air to support the engines need without creating a restriction.

Just pick your muffler based on sound, material, gaurentee, workmanship, fit, etc.
Click to expand...

Excellent post.

The part I highlighted is exactly what the owner of the muffler shop I go to told me. This old time father & son shop in Huntington Beach, Ca, routinely installs Muscle Car and Hot Rod exhaust systems.

I've been taking my cars there for 15 years. I trust them.

I have Flowmasters on my Dart. Nothing wrong with them, but I was toying with the idea of installing Dynamax, based on the info read here..

So I went to the shop and asked a few questions..about freer flow as advertised and stuff like that..

They told me the flow numbers are BS. That they can be manipulated as was mentioned by Dave Clement in the post above.

They also told me that they won't carry Dynamax products anymore because they got tired of covering Warranty repairs on those. Busted welds mostly.


They said that in their experience, the best built muffler is Flowmaster.

They carry all sorts of mufflers. Borla, Magnaflow, etc..

So the Flowmasters are still there under my Dart, some 3 years later.


Your Mileage May Vary, and all that...



--
 
to each his own when it comes to mufflers imo...and yes flow numbers can definatly be fudged, i agree totally...but

at the end of the day, if you are comparing a muffler that is straight through to one that has chambers, well which do you think is going to perform better? even if its one chamber, its still a passage for the air to have to navigate through which imo would kill flow...now i know its always good to have a little backpressure, but i still just cant see the point of a chambered muffler on a performance application except for sound, which imo, still dont sound that great anyways

just my two cents
 
dgc333 said:
FWIW, the advertised air flow numbers of a muffler are the last thing you should consider when choosing a muffler. It's the easiest parameter the manufacturers can jockey with to meet their marketing goals. Air Flow is only valid and meaningful if it's given with the pressure drop the number was obtained with. Since there is no mandated test process for muffler air flow that defines a standard pressure drop air flow numbers between manufacturers are useless and even within a manufacturers line of mufflers I wouldn't be surprised if they change the test to get numbers to match the marketing goals.

An example would be manufacturer A tests their mufflers at 1 psi pressure drop and manufacture B tests at 3 psi. A advertises 400 cfm of air flow and B advertises 500 cfm of air flow so you would think B is better but if you were to test A at 3 psi pressure drop it would flow 600 cfm or more a than B. These aren't real numbers just to show how not having all the info you can't compare.

Any perfromance muffler properly sized for the application has the capability of flowing more than enough air to support the engines need without creating a restriction.

Just pick your muffler based on sound, material, gaurentee, workmanship, fit, etc.
Click to expand...


unlessi read the chart on the first page wrong, i dont believe it was a manufacturer that tested the mufflers...therefore, they probably all would have been tested the same way, so as to get results from equal testing...atleast thats what i would think
 
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