I've got a lot of chores to run today, but in between them I'm going to take a look under the car. If the car is reving, but not accelerating when I press the gas pedal, I'm assuming the clutch is slipping. This Dart is not going to be driven until I fix this. Luckily, I have 2 more weeks off before school starts. Unluckily, I'm still busy.
MuuMuu101's 68 Dart, A Learning Process...
- Thread starter MuuMuu101
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Well, I've got the car setup on jack stands in the front. Visually, it looks like all of the bolts are where they need to be. I even looked at the serpentine belt up front to see if maybe a bolt fell off and just got caught in there, but I didn't see anything. Internet seems to be pointing to throwout bearing.
DARTGAME
SuPeRcHaRgEd
Look at bell housing bolts too. Possible flywheel or pressure plate bolt came off. Might also not been a bolt, could have been piece of clutch material or rivet from clutch. Just my thoughts
Ian
Ian
Bellhousing bolts are all there. The feed line from the slave cylinder to the throwout bearing seems to be secure. How bad would it be if clutch pieces came off? If a flywheel or pressure plate bolt came off, that means the trans has to come out to check it?
Sounds like the throwout bearing adjustment is wrong, clearance is set improperly. Depends on how your hydraulic set up is, but frequently those need to be shimmed to adjust clearance unless there's an issue with the master cylinder.
If it's a pressure plate bolt, you don't need to drop the transmission if you can get at the pressure plate. But with a quicktime bell I'm not sure you'll have any access to the pressure plate. I haven't installed mine yet so I'm not sure if you'll be able to see if the pressure plate bolts are there. I'm pretty sure there isn't enough access to replace a pressure plate bolt if one is missing though. If it's a flywheel bolt you'll have to drop the transmission to see anything, and you'll have to drop the clutch to replace it if one is missing
If it's a pressure plate bolt, you don't need to drop the transmission if you can get at the pressure plate. But with a quicktime bell I'm not sure you'll have any access to the pressure plate. I haven't installed mine yet so I'm not sure if you'll be able to see if the pressure plate bolts are there. I'm pretty sure there isn't enough access to replace a pressure plate bolt if one is missing though. If it's a flywheel bolt you'll have to drop the transmission to see anything, and you'll have to drop the clutch to replace it if one is missing
Yeah, I had to bring the car down around noon as I had to leave and close the garage. So, basically I'm dealing with a long job as the pressure plate is not accessible from the bellhousing and I don't really have that many tools to assist me.
Yeah unfortunately that sounds about right. Probably not a huge issue causing your problem, but the fix is going to mean dropping the transmission even if it's an "easy" fix like a throwout bearing adjustment or a bolt that worked loose.
I mean, the way I'm looking at it, in order to finish the job I'm just going to have to set aside like 2 hours a week and tackle the project that way. It seems like that will be the cheapest route where I get the most experience without getting too tired out or too frustrated and working around my busy schedule. Because I'm tired of sending the car to a shop and spending the money. It's going to take a long time and I probably won't make it to a lot of car shows, but it is what it is.
Sorry I've been MIA. Been busy with school and work. I just dropped the Dart off at a credible trans shop 4 miles away. It was recommended to me by multiple local businesses, had good Yelp reviews, and he also did some work to my mom's SUV. They were super reasonable on the labor rate for the inspection.
So, I'm doing the math, and I'm not sure if the 275/35/18's are going to fit very well with the wheel setup I have. I only gained about 0.5" with the offset shackles. Curently, the rears are rubbing on the quarters. I'm trying to keep things affordable as much as I'd like the Enkei's. I'm thinking about going to Bridgestone Re-71R's 265/35/18's with the M/T 18 x 9" +32mm wheels and +5mm spacers. I'm hoping with the 9" wheels, it will bring the sidewalls in a little for clearance. I know it's not ideal, but I just want to make sure everything fits. I'll test fit the front wheels on the rear for reference when I get the car back.
So, I'm doing the math, and I'm not sure if the 275/35/18's are going to fit very well with the wheel setup I have. I only gained about 0.5" with the offset shackles. Curently, the rears are rubbing on the quarters. I'm trying to keep things affordable as much as I'd like the Enkei's. I'm thinking about going to Bridgestone Re-71R's 265/35/18's with the M/T 18 x 9" +32mm wheels and +5mm spacers. I'm hoping with the 9" wheels, it will bring the sidewalls in a little for clearance. I know it's not ideal, but I just want to make sure everything fits. I'll test fit the front wheels on the rear for reference when I get the car back.
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Well that sucks. Any word on the cause?
Transmission shop thinks that the shims for the transmission-to-bellhousing are not adequate enough for the throwout bearing. Even though it's a hydraulic throwout bearing, he believes there should be about 1/4" play as he thinks the throwout bearing is riding on the clutch. He says my clutch pedal doesn't feel right and that it shouldn't be engaging as rough or as high as it was. He said it's supposed to engage low and as the clutch wears, it will start to engage higher. His neighbor has a lot of experience with pro-touring builds and has been in "hundreds of magazines" so he was going to ask him if he has any experience with it.
Hotchkis doesn't think the shims is the problem and I remember specifically that the mechanic payed special attention to getting the runout correct on the bellhousing and does not think it's a throwout bearing. They said it's possible that I was "riding the clutch" and that could have toasted it. That being said, they said I should get it to them so they can at least take a look at it in case they goofed and "make it right," but I told them that it's a problem because I keep sending them the car and every single time I have to hire a tow truck and take a half day or a couple hours off work to pick the thing up or drop it off and I simply do not have the time between working full-time and achieving a master's full-time to do so. Also, "making it right" is a little bit of a grey area because it's hard to prove who's at fault for a clutch going out in 1000 miles in less than a year (only 2 autocross events and 1 track day). If they can't find a fault with their installation, I have to pay for the repairs or at least the portion to replace the clutch (not the inspection).
So, at this point I'm not sure what I'm going to do. On one hand, sure, Hotchkis deserves the benefit of the doubt to check their work and fix it if they goofed, but I can't risk taking more time off work and hiring a tow truck for them to check it just for me to possibly get another expensive bill when I've already invested so much money on the car. On the other hand, I don't really know a credible shop who is willing to do the work and I don't have the time or energy to attempt to do it myself with my busy schedule. My third option is I may just pick the car up, drive it 4 miles home, and park it in the garage for a little while as I'm saving up for other important life events.
Well that sucks. Thing is if you weren’t riding the clutch then hotchkis is off the mark. Having the shims set up incorrectly would result in exactly the same kind of wear as if you were riding the clutch.
With only 1k miles on the clutch you’d have needed to be riding the crap out of it. I mean, all the time. So unless you like to rest your foot on the clutch I’d suspect some kind of clutch adjustment problem. Either the shims set up incorrectly for the throwout, or maybe some kind of issue with the master or slave that was causing the throwout to not return consistently.
The car was sent back to Hotchkis today. I mean, I've had manual cars as daily drivers for 10 years now in LA traffic and have never replaced a clutch (1993 Dodge Stealth, 2011 Scion tC, and now a 2018 Subaru WRX), so I don't think I was riding the clutch continuously although the pedal assembly is a little different in the Dart. We'll see what Hotchkis says.
goldduster318
Overzealous Car Modifier
Its pretty obvious to me that it's installation error on their part, or some defective parts (something like the throwout bearing not returning). The clutch on basically any manual car should be releasing about halfway up and have some freeplay to the teeth.
Yeah, SilverSport Transmission says the T56 design is a tad different where the throwout bearing is supposed to ride the pressure plate. But they do mention that if you don't get your cushion measurement correct, it could cause clutch slippage.
See page 8:
https://shiftsst.com/media/wysiwyg/pdfs/2017June/MAG-00402_GM_Hydraulic_Manual_RevF.pdf
Really happy I was able to finally get the car back on Friday morning. Drove it to work, gf's house, and then back home and didn't have a problem. Clutch discs were glazed and the throwout bearing broke (probably the pinging noise I heard when I first had the incident). I can't believe I drove it 30 miles home like this. So, I'm going to baby the car for the next 600 miles to ensure the clutch is good.
Unfortunately, when I got to work, I realized that the driver's window fell off its tracks, so I'm going to need to fix that. However, I already had problems with this side where the car does not have the roller or plastic guide in the window. Does anyone know where to get these parts? I was planning on doing this in December.
Unfortunately, when I got to work, I realized that the driver's window fell off its tracks, so I'm going to need to fix that. However, I already had problems with this side where the car does not have the roller or plastic guide in the window. Does anyone know where to get these parts? I was planning on doing this in December.
goldduster318
Overzealous Car Modifier
Glad its fixed!
Is that the throwout bearing or the pilot bearing that goes into the back of the crankshaft? This stuff makes me a little nervous about the quality of T56 conversion parts...since I'd still like to do it to mine.
Is that the throwout bearing or the pilot bearing that goes into the back of the crankshaft? This stuff makes me a little nervous about the quality of T56 conversion parts...since I'd still like to do it to mine.
It's the throwout bearing. I'm still perplexed that this happened as I don't know what exactly caused this. Sure I thrashed the car that night but all the driving leading up to that was fine. I didn't even hear anything when I parked the car hours before. I'm thinking the TO bearing may have gave out and the clutch discs were glazed because I drove home 30-35 miles with a slipping clutch.
The T56 was all sourced (aside from the Clutch - Centerforce) from American Powertrain.
I think they just set the clearance wrong, it was out of adjustment the whole time. The throwout bearing was putting too much pressure on the clutch, so you were running around with the clutch partially engaged. Just like if you were constantly riding the clutch. The clutch disk certainly reflects that. And the throwout bearing isn’t designed for that kind of use either, it likely overheated because of the prolonged partial application. And that could certainly cause a failure like that over time, regardless of the quality of parts.
Well, it's been a couple weeks since I got the car back and I've driven (babied) it about 100 miles or so and so far no problems. Everything seems to be going smoothly.
I'm finishing another quarter of school in about 2 weeks so after that I'll be able to work on the car some as I won't start again until the New Year. I'm also taking the last week of the year off so there's some more time there.
I still have a drone problem that I need to tackle, just so the car is more bearable on the freeway and longer trips. I'm going to try repositioning or denting my headers as the headers still interfere with my PS box. If not, I'm going to probably have to put some small resonators at the tailpipe as there's no other room.
I also want to see how large of a tire I can fit out back now that I have my springs relocated in. So, I'm going to try throwing the front wheels (18x9, +32 mm, 255/40/18) on the back (18x9, +22 mm, 255/40/18) and see if I can go to a wider tire if I order a new set of back wheels. I'd rather not order a whole new set of wheels. I'm pretty sure a 265/35/18 should fit no problem (although it will be short), but I'd like a 275/35/18.
As for that, I went on a lovely ride today with the gf around the lake. Once I got home, my gf decided she wanted a photo session with the car. I think this is one of the first times that someone has taken a picture with me and the car as I'm usually the one behind the camera lens.
View attachment 1715115042
I'm finishing another quarter of school in about 2 weeks so after that I'll be able to work on the car some as I won't start again until the New Year. I'm also taking the last week of the year off so there's some more time there.
I still have a drone problem that I need to tackle, just so the car is more bearable on the freeway and longer trips. I'm going to try repositioning or denting my headers as the headers still interfere with my PS box. If not, I'm going to probably have to put some small resonators at the tailpipe as there's no other room.
I also want to see how large of a tire I can fit out back now that I have my springs relocated in. So, I'm going to try throwing the front wheels (18x9, +32 mm, 255/40/18) on the back (18x9, +22 mm, 255/40/18) and see if I can go to a wider tire if I order a new set of back wheels. I'd rather not order a whole new set of wheels. I'm pretty sure a 265/35/18 should fit no problem (although it will be short), but I'd like a 275/35/18.
As for that, I went on a lovely ride today with the gf around the lake. Once I got home, my gf decided she wanted a photo session with the car. I think this is one of the first times that someone has taken a picture with me and the car as I'm usually the one behind the camera lens.
View attachment 1715115042
Well that sucks, but unless they’ve already been discontinued there’s bound to be some out there still. The more important question is, do they fit?
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