My 422 smallblock build

[Mopar Sam]

BTW, you can check to see if maybe your shafts have the oil holes in the correct location while the engine is in the car.

Get whatever cylinder you want to check on the seat with the correct lash. Pull the adjusters out of the rockers and stick a small pick or pin or whatever you can find that will fit in the hole.

If it goes in and hits the shaft you know the holes aren’t lined up. That’s a quick and dirty way to find out if at some point Chrysler fixed the issue.

I figured it out one day by sheer accident. I had the rockers off but I had the number one rockers on thx shaft. I had the adjusters out because I was probably changing them out after killing some of them.

I still had the stands on there with the bolts in them so the rockers were where they would be on the engine.

I was walking to the back of the shop and the rockers just started to turn on the shafts and it caught my eye. Then I noticed, because the adjusters were out that I never saw the oil hole.

I couldn’t believe it. So I spun the rockers on the shaft many times to verify I didn’t just miss the holes.

That’s when I pulled the rockers off the shaft, put some bluing on the shaft and put the rockers back on and put it on the head.

Then I stuck a scribe in the hole to mark the shaft.

And they were off not only left to right on the shaft, they are off radially around the shaft too.

Like I said, they may have corrected that but I’ve not found that yet.

Do you use something like a bent wire to go in the hole on W2 rockers with the outer hole plugged? I probably should have checked mine.

I have done it on 273 rockers, but it was easy with the hole all of tthe way through to the outside.

 

[Mopar Sam]

I don't know if @Rocket is still making the shafts. If so, it would be nice if we could get him the correct hole location for W2 shafts.
I have a set of his shafts, and they are nice.

 

[replicaracer43]

The geometry was set up by Mike at B3.
Do you think longer pushrods would cure the overheating? Or could there be an oil flow problem due to improperly located oiling holes in the shaft?

My experience with W2 rockers, is that they DONT oil the pushrods correctly IF they are that far away from the adjuster. Went through this exact scenario 4 or 5 years ago on a W2 340 I machined for a buddy. I showed him how to measure pushrod length after the engine was assembled, but he mis calculated the exhaust pushrod length. It burned the tips exactly like yours. I measured and ordered the 2nd set, and no more problems. Been beat on heavily since, lash hasn't moved in 4 years at least.

 

[mygasser]

could you do a similar mod' to the 'banana' grooves on some shafts? just add grooves from the pushrod oiling holes to where they'll align with the rockers to correct the misalignment and provide adequate pushrod oiling.
neil.

 

[TurboGLH]

Brutal. It's good that you caught it early though.

Thanks for the reply and pics. Those look like the same Smith Brothers pushrods that I have.

Do you guys think that the adjuster being too far through the rocker is restricting oil to the cup? And moving the cup closer to the rocker will prevent the overheating?

@9secRR , are you running different length rods for intake and exhaust? Also, how much side clearance are you running on that setup?

When I set mine up SM heads with Mikes kit, I set the oil band in the adjuster centered on the oil hole in the rocker, did a sanity check with air and tightened the nut. Then I checked my pushrod length and ordered.

Side note, I can say that with full time oiling and a .080 hole feeding both heads it's like a fire hose, still way too much oil up top. Expect a mess if you go to check how much oil you're getting to the heads.

 

[PRH]

I’ve had success putting grooves inside the rocker to connect the machined groove in the ID of the body to the pushrod oil feed hole on rockers where the distance between the two was fairly long.

 

[Newbomb Turk]

Do you use something like a bent wire to go in the hole on W2 rockers with the outer hole plugged? I probably should have checked mine.

I have done it on 273 rockers, but it was easy with the hole all of tthe way through to the outside.

I had (probably still do but I haven’t seen it is fair bit of time) a right angle scribe I could sneak in there.

The NIB shafts I have are P4120589. The date on the box is 2002 but who knows when they were actually made. I have some TA shafts. Let me run out to the shop and I’ll see if I can find them.

The TA shafts I have are P357786 I think. The 8 may be a 6. Either way I believe them to be TA offset shafts. By offset I mean the oil holes not the mounting holes.

I’ll lay one of each side by each and see if the offset is the same. And yes, I’ll take a picture.

As the picture shows, the oil holes are in EXACTLY the location.

The upshot is the oil hole in the rocker NEVER EVER lines up with the oil hole in the shaft.

For the system to work the pushrod length must fit the Chrysler dimension AND when the valves are on the seat the pushrods and adjusters must get full oil flow and pressure.

My trusty machinist rule says the TA offset is .500. IIRC the W2/5 offset is .750 although I’ve seen some T&D rockers at .625 I think.

At some point in your program if you make enough power and rpm you will be forced to relocate the oil feed holes as I lined out elsewhere.

And I forgot to mention that I always mark each rocker for its location and then I know the hole in the rocker lines up exactly with the hole in the shaft.

If you get the oiling to the adjusters corrected you can run 360 on the seat, 1k over the nose and turn 9k. I know that because I’ve done it.

Until I see otherwise, any W2 shafts have the oil holes in the wrong location.

 

[Mopar Sam]

I had (probably still do but I haven’t seen it is fair bit of time) a right angle scribe I could sneak in there.

The NIB shafts I have are P4120589. The date on the box is 2002 but who knows when they were actually made. I have some TA shafts. Let me run out to the shop and I’ll see if I can find them.

The TA shafts I have are P357786 I think. The 8 may be a 6. Either way I believe them to be TA offset shafts. By offset I mean the oil holes not the mounting holes.

I’ll lay one of each side by each and see if the offset is the same. And yes, I’ll take a picture.




View attachment 1716296384

As the picture shows, the oil holes are in EXACTLY the location.

The upshot is the oil hole in the rocker NEVER EVER lines up with the oil hole in the shaft.

For the system to work the pushrod length must fit the Chrysler dimension AND when the valves are on the seat the pushrods and adjusters must get full oil flow and pressure.

My trusty machinist rule says the TA offset is .500. IIRC the W2/5 offset is .750 although I’ve seen some T&D rockers at .625 I think.

At some point in your program if you make enough power and rpm you will be forced to relocate the oil feed holes as I lined out elsewhere.

And I forgot to mention that I always mark each rocker for its location and then I know the hole in the rocker lines up exactly with the hole in the shaft.

If you get the oiling to the adjusters corrected you can run 360 on the seat, 1k over the nose and turn 9k. I know that because I’ve done it.

Until I see otherwise, any W2 shafts have the oil holes in the wrong location.

Thanks! It is a shame that Mopar did not relocate the holes. It would have been a simple operation.

It looks like I may have a winter project.

I agree with keeping the rockers where they are. I ended up with 2 different types of W2 iron rockers for the intakes. I bought/sold rockers from 3 sets to get equal valve lift on all cylinders.( within .005") I measured for every pushrod and so they too are cylinder specific. I don't have a lathe, so I cut them a bit long and then squared them up on the tipping side of the valve grinder.

 

[9secRR]

Thanks for the reply and pics. Those look like the same Smith Brothers pushrods that I have.

Do you guys think that the adjuster being too far through the rocker is restricting oil to the cup? And moving the cup closer to the rocker will prevent the overheating?

@9secRR , are you running different length rods for intake and exhaust? Also, how much side clearance are you running on that setup?

pushrods are the same length. Not much side clearance, I can’t remember the # but it’s not much.