Do you use something like a bent wire to go in the hole on W2 rockers with the outer hole plugged? I probably should have checked mine.
I have done it on 273 rockers, but it was easy with the hole all of tthe way through to the outside.
My 422 smallblock build
- Thread starter SSG_Karg
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Do you use something like a bent wire to go in the hole on W2 rockers with the outer hole plugged? I probably should have checked mine.
I have done it on 273 rockers, but it was easy with the hole all of tthe way through to the outside.
replicaracer43
Grumpy Old Man
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My experience with W2 rockers, is that they DONT oil the pushrods correctly IF they are that far away from the adjuster. Went through this exact scenario 4 or 5 years ago on a W2 340 I machined for a buddy. I showed him how to measure pushrod length after the engine was assembled, but he mis calculated the exhaust pushrod length. It burned the tips exactly like yours. I measured and ordered the 2nd set, and no more problems. Been beat on heavily since, lash hasn't moved in 4 years at least.
mygasser
Well-Known Member
could you do a similar mod' to the 'banana' grooves on some shafts? just add grooves from the pushrod oiling holes to where they'll align with the rockers to correct the misalignment and provide adequate pushrod oiling.
neil.
neil.
Brutal. It's good that you caught it early though.
When I set mine up SM heads with Mikes kit, I set the oil band in the adjuster centered on the oil hole in the rocker, did a sanity check with air and tightened the nut. Then I checked my pushrod length and ordered.
Side note, I can say that with full time oiling and a .080 hole feeding both heads it's like a fire hose, still way too much oil up top. Expect a mess if you go to check how much oil you're getting to the heads.
When I set mine up SM heads with Mikes kit, I set the oil band in the adjuster centered on the oil hole in the rocker, did a sanity check with air and tightened the nut. Then I checked my pushrod length and ordered.
Side note, I can say that with full time oiling and a .080 hole feeding both heads it's like a fire hose, still way too much oil up top. Expect a mess if you go to check how much oil you're getting to the heads.
PRH
Well-Known Member
I’ve had success putting grooves inside the rocker to connect the machined groove in the ID of the body to the pushrod oil feed hole on rockers where the distance between the two was fairly long.
Newbomb Turk
Well-Known Member
I had (probably still do but I haven’t seen it is fair bit of time) a right angle scribe I could sneak in there.
The NIB shafts I have are P4120589. The date on the box is 2002 but who knows when they were actually made. I have some TA shafts. Let me run out to the shop and I’ll see if I can find them.
The TA shafts I have are P357786 I think. The 8 may be a 6. Either way I believe them to be TA offset shafts. By offset I mean the oil holes not the mounting holes.
I’ll lay one of each side by each and see if the offset is the same. And yes, I’ll take a picture.
As the picture shows, the oil holes are in EXACTLY the location.
The upshot is the oil hole in the rocker NEVER EVER lines up with the oil hole in the shaft.
For the system to work the pushrod length must fit the Chrysler dimension AND when the valves are on the seat the pushrods and adjusters must get full oil flow and pressure.
My trusty machinist rule says the TA offset is .500. IIRC the W2/5 offset is .750 although I’ve seen some T&D rockers at .625 I think.
At some point in your program if you make enough power and rpm you will be forced to relocate the oil feed holes as I lined out elsewhere.
And I forgot to mention that I always mark each rocker for its location and then I know the hole in the rocker lines up exactly with the hole in the shaft.
If you get the oiling to the adjusters corrected you can run 360 on the seat, 1k over the nose and turn 9k. I know that because I’ve done it.
Until I see otherwise, any W2 shafts have the oil holes in the wrong location.
Thanks! It is a shame that Mopar did not relocate the holes. It would have been a simple operation.
It looks like I may have a winter project.
I agree with keeping the rockers where they are. I ended up with 2 different types of W2 iron rockers for the intakes. I bought/sold rockers from 3 sets to get equal valve lift on all cylinders.( within .005") I measured for every pushrod and so they too are cylinder specific. I don't have a lathe, so I cut them a bit long and then squared them up on the tipping side of the valve grinder.
9secRR
Well-Known Member
pushrods are the same length. Not much side clearance, I can’t remember the # but it’s not much.
SSG_Karg
Enhanced member
Ordered new pushrods from Smith Brothers. Ended up being .150” longer than the first set. Which is coincidentally the same depth as the cup in the pushrod. I suppose it’s possible that I measured overall length but told them effective length. Anyway, got everything installed and adjusted properly.
Now I’m working on the tuneup. I feel like it’s lean at at very little throttle but everywhere else is pretty close. It comes on immediately with the mash of the pedal with no hesitation and pulls hard past 6k.
Currently 20* initial, 34* total. Idles at 950rpm with 9 inches of vacuum on 93 pump gas.
Give me your opinions on these plugs. Autolite 65s.
Now I’m working on the tuneup. I feel like it’s lean at at very little throttle but everywhere else is pretty close. It comes on immediately with the mash of the pedal with no hesitation and pulls hard past 6k.
Currently 20* initial, 34* total. Idles at 950rpm with 9 inches of vacuum on 93 pump gas.
Give me your opinions on these plugs. Autolite 65s.
Newbomb Turk
Well-Known Member
Look at the center electrode. It’s got too much heat in it. I’d start by getting some timing out of it.
Where is the 34 total all in at?
It ain’t happy for dang sure.
SSG_Karg
Enhanced member
The total timing is all in at 2200. Distributor has 2 of the light springs in it but I have other springs coming from Mancini to slow the curve down. Probably shoot for around all in at 3000 and go from there. Currently has a 6.5 power valve but I might try a 10.5. Its got a lean surge when the throttle blades are almost closed. Feels like “fish biting” when going down a slight grade.
Newbomb Turk
Well-Known Member
That’s why the plug looks like it does. You have too much timing around and below peak torque and maybe just enough at peak power or you could be a little retarded at peak power.
One of the things to look at when checking your plugs is to compare the sharp edges of the ground strap and center wire of a new plug to what you see on a used plug.
When you see the sharp edges getting rolled over like that (or worse yet is when the side of the center wire is melted) the plug has too much heat at relatively low power and load.
If it’s getting after the ground wire that’s usually too much heat in the plug and high power and load.
There is a thing called “spark mark” (I suppose there is a text book name of it but I can’t recall it right now) and it looks like tiny little pock marks on the top of the center wire.
That is a good thing as that’s an indicator the ignition is nice and hot. I know at one time and it’s probably is still so that part of what helped get the spark started was the center wire would release molecules at ignition and that made firing the plug easier.
The issue was and still is how long the plugs last.
To that end you had three major spark plugs on the market when I came along. Champion, NGK and Autolite.
I put them in that order because Champion used the softest material in the center wire. NGK is in the middle and Autolite is the hardest material.
Not trying to go full AJ but this is the first time I’ve seen a good picture of a plug like yours on FABO so I think an explanation might help some read plugs not better but with more depth or whatever.
At any rate, the Champions to this day are still the softest and will need to be replaced sooner than the other two. Of course the Autolites will go longer than the other two.
If you are ignition deficient the Champions can help with random miss fires and such but they don’t last as long.
And because people generally don’t do tune ups frequently enough they lost performance by leaving the Champions in too long. Of course switching to an autolite made them last longer but with a weak ignition you can lose performance. And the emissions can go up.
And to finally wind this up, with the new stuff so crowded and cramped and because most people don’t check their oil and change it frequently enough just like the plugs rare earth metal plugs go in.
That stuff is harder than the hubs of hell. That’s why they can go 100k plus miles and not really lose much.
For what we do those plugs are a waste of money. And they are harder to fire. If you run points it’s noticeable. Even the much ballyhooed HEI is not enough energy to fire the plugs with rare earth metal construction.
Do guys do it? Yes. Will I do it? Nope.
Edit: I forgot to mention that the rare earth metal plugs use a very fine center wire to help get things going. A fatter rare earth metal plug would be much harder to initiate a spark. So they use a fine wire center electrode.
And fine wire plugs are not new. We used them in 1972 on dirt bike stuff. Before that even because one of the first things my dad did was switch to fine wire plugs when he bought his first two stoke which was 1970 I think.
They were fine wire but not rare earth metal and it for sure helped with the weak ignitions back then.
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mygasser
Well-Known Member
i tried some ngk platinum tip plugs back in the late 70's when they came out on a honda 400/4 i had (was still into bikes then). i used to work that bike hard and the platinum tip plugs didn't last. 2 melted the tips off after a couple of weeks. i returned them and swapped them for 2 sets of normal ngk's (they were half the price of the new fangled ones). i've stuck to normal ones since on cars and bikes.
neil.
neil.
SSG_Karg
Enhanced member
I’m getting some oil in #8. What should I check first?
Newbomb Turk
Well-Known Member
Look very close at the center electrode and the end of the ground wire.
They are not sharp like new. That plug has been over heated. When the sharp edges roll like that it ain’t happy.
Plus it’s getting oil.
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