My Challenge to U /6ers....

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archlab

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If you can meet this challenge, then I will pull my 318 & do a /6.
Can you meet these specs? Can you Beat these specs?

Slant 6 Engine
* Spend $0 -to- $1500 MAX
(Use stock, used, or off the shelf/east to get parts - not necessarily
fancy or HP stuff, but could be as long as it meets the budget.
Maybe you use a 5-speed trans from a 2000's Dodge, change the
gears, lighten the car, improve fuel delivery & exhaust, etc,etc,etc -
You figure it out)

* Power: 200 - 250hp (or more?)
-or- Get a Weight/ HP ratio (or give a better criteria)

* MPG: 25 -to- 35mpg using E10,
say 20 -to- 30 for E85
-or- have the ability to Use an Alternative Fuel to burn cleaner
& add flexibility, cost effectiveness,etc

I'm looking at this as a daily driver that has good drivability, decent power (it can keep up w/ a Camry, for example), is cost effective, & is perhaps cleaner (if it's more fuel efficient, &/or burns cleaner fuel then it is usually cleaner).

If you are one who dismisses this idea, then please post elsewhere. However, if you are into solving some engineering challenges, then I'm speaking to you.

BTW, if you think you can do this w/ a 318, or other V8...well, be my guest.

Why should all the new, ugly & rice-burnin' cars get all the glory?
 
have you thought about a hydrogen conversion? theres some good website around that have some good cheap way to go about that with a home built setup that uses water and electrodes to produce the hydrogen, very scientific and clean burning. then from there throw on a junkyard charger or blower and call it a day.

google automotive hydrogen conversion

disclaimer!!! im not an engineer but i looked into this afew years ago for another car, never ended up doing it though, this is the info i gathered.
 
Now that's a great 1st Reply!
I saw a Hydrogen pwr'd A-Body w/ a supercharger for sale once - never really gave the hydrogen thing serious consideration, but maybe it's time to do it. I also almost bought a Convertible B'Cuda that had a NatGas setup. Should've bought one of those.
 
I'll be sitting back waiting for people with more knowledge than I,but I'd almost be willing to bet with your first set of guidelines,no problem !!:D But what do I know ??
 
However it ends up, consider reclaiming the exhaust heat and use it to turbine assist the driveline.
The car could re-use just a bit of water to do this, cool it back down with an AC type condenser and back to heat source again and back to the turbine.
 
There is also newer technology to separate Hydrogen from Oxygen using radio waves.
Also found on Google.
Very promising stuff for the future.
 
archlab said:
You figure it out
Click to expand...

It ain't our decision or up to us to figure out. If somebody has to talk you into a slant, you don't want one in the first place. Not trying to be smart...just the opposite. 250 HP from a slant with a 1500 buck budget is not very realistic. A 250 HP slant will be a VERY hot slant involving some pretty expensive cylinder head work.......OR some forced induction OR nitrous. By their given number of cylinders, they are not going to make as much power as a comparable V8. This is a fact that slant lovers already know and accept. They do it for the love of the engine.
 
I appreciate what you say, but like I wrote, I ain't interested in what can't be done. I know the specs are a challenge (& maybe on the crazy-side), but I know that with all the brain power in FABO, someone's done a little of this for free/cheap (Hydrogen, My Gawd!), & someone else has done something else (like the reclamation of exhaust heat by Trailbeast).

One thing that I didn't mention before is that i love the /6, but I too, have found that if you want more power, it's more direct to go the V8 route. I'd like to see that I'm wrong about that.
 
To me this seems like a "think ouside the box" thing and I always liked to do it.
The next thing I expect could happen is for us all to see ArchLabs on the stocks ticker someday sitting here going "Thats was my freakin idea" but whatever.
I'm in if I can help.

But if you just want to get rich, make a scrub sponge pad about 12x16 thet velcro's to the shower wall.
I know, right?

Sorry, back to the point.
 
well i have alot more than 1500 into my motor and im at the 245hp mark and i get 20mpg freeway @ 3000rpm lol...

its all about effecincy... if you truley looking for a DD motor i would shot for around the 150-190hp NA mark... i think that will be just about as much as you can go before gas really takes a hit...

BTW if you want mileage STAY AWAY from the alcohol based fuels as it takes alot more per mile vs gas...

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S1xM3OFn8us"]Run1.MOV - YouTube[/ame]
 

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It really would not increase power to speak of but out on the road it would increase fuel economy if designed well.
Say add 30 lbs to the car and get 5 miles more out of a gallon of gas.
Seems worth it, theoretically anyway.

16lbs for the water
15 or so for lines tanks and turbine assy (All aluminum of course)
3 horses at 60mph
That would do it.



archlab said:
I appreciate what you say, but like I wrote, I ain't interested in what can't be done. I know the specs are a challenge (& maybe on the crazy-side), but I know that with all the brain power in FABO, someone's done a little of this for free/cheap (Hydrogen, My Gawd!), & someone else has done something else (like the reclamation of exhaust heat by Trailbeast).

One thing that I didn't mention before is that i love the /6, but I too, have found that if you want more power, it's more direct to go the V8 route. I'd like to see that I'm wrong about that.
Click to expand...
 
And there in lies the problem again.
If you do it the way everyone else has done it, you'll get them same results.
Like I said before, this is an "outside the box" project.
It's all been done before, but how you accomplish an end result can make all the difference.
Correct me if I'm wrong archlab, but am I on track about this?


805moparkid said:
well i have alot more than 1500 into my motor and im at the 245hp mark and i get 20mpg freeway @ 3000rpm lol...

its all about effecincy... if you truley looking for a DD motor i would shot for around the 150-190hp NA mark... i think that will be just about as much as you can go before gas really takes a hit...

BTW if you want mileage STAY AWAY from the alcohol based fuels as it takes alot more per mile vs gas...

Run1.MOV - YouTube
Click to expand...
 
archlab said:
I appreciate what you say, but like I wrote, I ain't interested in what can't be done. I know the specs are a challenge (& maybe on the crazy-side), but I know that with all the brain power in FABO, someone's done a little of this for free/cheap (Hydrogen, My Gawd!), & someone else has done something else (like the reclamation of exhaust heat by Trailbeast).

One thing that I didn't mention before is that i love the /6, but I too, have found that if you want more power, it's more direct to go the V8 route. I'd like to see that I'm wrong about that.
Click to expand...

Bill Dedman is gonna get a woody when he sees this......


Then what I recommend to you would be to build a turbo motor. Them little turbos like what come on any of them modern 4 bangers would work good, and be cheap outta a salvage yard. They also do not require expensive exhaust headers and can be used with stock compression engines....even with stock pistons as long as you watch your fuel curve and don't lean out. I really think doing it that way, you would come out the cheapest. You might not be able to keep it at 1500, but then again, if you lucked out on deals.......who knows?
 
TrailBeast said:
And there in lies the problem again.
If you do it the way everyone else has done it, you'll get them same results.
Like I said before, this is an "outside the box" project.
It's all been done before, but how you accomplish an end result can make all the difference.
Correct me if I'm wrong archlab, but am I on track about this?
Click to expand...

i see no problem with a 13 second car getting 20 mpg with 3.91 gears @ 3200lbs...
 
I know what archlab is trying to do.

I have a 1994 Camry V6 XLE with the 3L 24valve DOHC 1MZ-FE engine. It gets 30 to 33 mpg on the highway and 20 to 23 mpg around town. It has good power on demand.

3 Liters is equivalent to 183 cubic inches, which is right in the slant six world. I have wondered what I would have to do to get the same efficiency out of a /6.

I figured that I could keep the /6 bottom end but the head would have to be redesigned and fabricated with the following:
1. hemispherical combustion chambers.
2. fuel system on the opposite side of the exhaust system to help isolate the fuel from the exhaust heat.
3. Dual overhead cams to operate the valves. The cams would not be directly over the head but off to one side which would allow the spark plugs to be centered in the chambers.
4. The ports would be of a size and shape to optimize flow efficiencies.
5. The induction would be fuel injection to begin.

To add some classic look to it I would have the exhaust manifold in a tri-y design before it dumps into the collector. Or have dual exhaust with three pipes into one side.

Other induction systems could be fabbed and tried such as special /6 short and long rams with one carb feeding two cylinders. Giving Stromberg carbs an evaluation. Turbocharging, etc.

Of course, the cost to do such a thing would have to be figured out.
 
Keep the slant and get a overdrive tranny. I have a friend with a 42 Plymouth coupe. It has a 225/ and a 833 o/d tranny. He gets 26-27 mpg highway and has a 4:10 gear in the rear. I'll bet if he had a 3:23 he'd get low 30's tmm
 
It not just the ricers who have more than one cam, more than 2 valves per cylinder, etc.. If there was a easy way to put a late model power plant under a classic hood,
I would do it even if it had to be front wheel drive. I think a lot of people would.
The yestermotor like a inline six with its long stroke might pull a school bus up a steep hill but it will never run with the modern passenger cars.
 
RedFish said:
It not just the ricers who have more than one cam, more than 2 valves per cylinder, etc.. If there was a easy way to put a late model power plant under a classic hood,
I would do it even if it had to be front wheel drive. I think a lot of people would.
The yestermotor like a inline six with its long stroke might pull a school bus up a steep hill but it will never run with the modern passenger cars.
Click to expand...

Quite obviously, you've never driven a twin turbo Supra. Even the non turbo models are not slow.
 
TrailBeast, There is no chance of me getting rich the way I've lost money on the Stock mkt over the years....but I'm sure if some great ideas pop up, they're probably already on the way to being cashed in by the actual geniuses that developed 'em.

I just wanna see the /6 A-Bodies viewed as something more desirable than Priuses (blech!).
 
TrailBeast said:
And there in lies the problem again.
If you do it the way everyone else has done it, you'll get them same results.
Like I said before, this is an "outside the box" project.
It's all been done before, but how you accomplish an end result can make all the difference.
Correct me if I'm wrong archlab, but am I on track about this?
Click to expand...

U is!
 
StrokerScamp said:
Bill Dedman is gonna get a woody when he sees this......


Then what I recommend to you would be to build a turbo motor. Them little turbos like what come on any of them modern 4 bangers would work good, and be cheap outta a salvage yard. They also do not require expensive exhaust headers and can be used with stock compression engines....even with stock pistons as long as you watch your fuel curve and don't lean out. I really think doing it that way, you would come out the cheapest. You might not be able to keep it at 1500, but then again, if you lucked out on deals.......who knows?
Click to expand...

Since this isn't anything official, we can be kinda loose on the specs. Maybe the best description of this challenge is to see how far we can advance our '1960s technology' past the 1980s, or 1990s.
 
toolmanmike said:
Keep the slant and get a overdrive tranny. I have a friend with a 42 Plymouth coupe. It has a 225/ and a 833 o/d tranny. He gets 26-27 mpg highway and has a 4:10 gear in the rear. I'll bet if he had a 3:23 he'd get low 30's tmm
Click to expand...


...but easy & 'elegant'. Also, I have to mention this: I had a 4.56 in my well-done 273 & it got about 35% BETTER mpg than the disgusting 2.76 I swapped (I do more hwy). Maybe that 2.76 is just plain wrong for a built V8 small bock, but I figured I'd get a little better. Instead, it went just the opposite...PLUS, no low-end. What can I say, it was free....
 
The Overdrive might also keep us within our 'budget'.
 
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