My "new" '74 Duster- or why I need a project like a hole in the head

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Im glad your back! My condolences for your dad I hate to hear that.I am sorry! Nice work on the demon as always. Iv enjoyed this thread im glad to see you back on here I have missed you. I noticed back in November I hadn't seen you around for a while.
 
Awesome work! I'm so jealous as to how much tire real-estate you get on the Duster. I just got my Dart back in my garage and have to look into options now that my car is running well.
 
DionR said:
I’ve got to agree. Was talking to a buddy just today and said someday I would like to build a ‘71-72 B-Body Plymouth and said “Oh, you want a Roadrunner”. I said no, just a basic Sebring or Satellite so I don’t have to feel bad about modifying it. No idea if I ever will, but right now I only have my Duster so it’s not like I have a bunch of projects waiting in the wings.

I have no issues with modifying my car, until I have to cut sheet metal. Some is ok, like the sub-frame connectors it has, and I am getting closer to being ok cutting the floor for a T56 but not all the way there yet. Taken a lot of years to get to that point.
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T56!?

That's jumping into the deep end right there. That would have to be the least reversible mod I've done so far, and more than a little cutting and hammering! Tunnel sheet metal, the whole transmission crossmember, wiring for all the lockout stuff, pedal mods for the hydraulic clutch, etc.

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Although, it's probably one of the best mods I've done so far for actually using the car. It's so nice having a modern transmission and the overdrives. And of course almost ANYTHING can be undone, AMD makes floors and crossmembers. To me the function is worth way more than the "originality" or the possible resale. Of course, that being said I kept the 904 in my GT because of the numbers deal. But it would get sold long before my Duster, I'm not worried about the resale on the Duster at all. I get way more out of it than money.

MuuMuu101 said:
Awesome work! I'm so jealous as to how much tire real-estate you get on the Duster. I just got my Dart back in my garage and have to look into options now that my car is running well.
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Yeah the extra room is nice! If nothing else it gives me some more options when I have to buy the next set of tires, I can go a little larger if the tire availability works out that way. But once you go past 275 the options start to get limited. I like the 27" tall tire out back now, and that really limits the choices.

The Dart's are pretty tight, even with a 1/2" offset a 275 is pushing your luck with body tolerances on some cars. Of course with a mini-tub and 3" relocation the sky's the limit, and that stuff is all available aftermarket so you can do less custom fabrication if you want. The big tires look cool, but they cost a lot more and really unless you're pushing a ton of power they're not all that necessary. Especially on a handling build, you're still limited by what you run up front in the corners. On my car I don't think going bigger than 295 would actually make it any faster. With the weight balance on these things I'd probably be better off trying to get a 285 up front than a 325 out back.
 
72bluNblu said:
T56!?

That's jumping into the deep end right there. That would have to be the least reversible mod I've done so far, and more than a little cutting and hammering! Tunnel sheet metal, the whole transmission crossmember, wiring for all the lockout stuff, pedal mods for the hydraulic clutch, etc.

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Although, it's probably one of the best mods I've done so far for actually using the car. It's so nice having a modern transmission and the overdrives. And of course almost ANYTHING can be undone, AMD makes floors and crossmembers. To me the function is worth way more than the "originality" or the possible resale. Of course, that being said I kept the 904 in my GT because of the numbers deal. But it would get sold long before my Duster, I'm not worried about the resale on the Duster at all. I get way more out of it than money.
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The option to buy a complete floor and crossmember is what has me feeling better about jumping into the deep end.

I miss the TR6060 I had in my Challenger. I think the single biggest thing that makes a car feel more modern and more usable is the transmission.
 
DionR said:
The option to buy a complete floor and crossmember is what has me feeling better about jumping into the deep end.

I miss the TR6060 I had in my Challenger. I think the single biggest thing that makes a car feel more modern and more usable is the transmission.
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It'll be the greatest thing you ever do to the car to drive. I made a whole topic on everything including the PNs you need. Its absolutely incredible, shifts WAY better than an A833, 6500 rpm shifts are no problem, 6-speeds (I have the 2.97:1 1st and .64 OD version with 3.23's), and its great. Roll down the freeway at any speed you want to go no sweat. My car got faster AND gets better MPG with one mod.
 
Sorry for your loss. Glad you are back at it as this thread is by far my favorite on this site. Your build is the blueprint I am following for my build and I am shamelessly copying about 95% of it.
 
goldduster318 said:
It'll be the greatest thing you ever do to the car to drive. I made a whole topic on everything including the PNs you need. Its absolutely incredible, shifts WAY better than an A833, 6500 rpm shifts are no problem, 6-speeds (I have the 2.97:1 1st and .64 OD version with 3.23's), and its great. Roll down the freeway at any speed you want to go no sweat. My car got faster AND gets better MPG with one mod.
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3.23's?! Good grief man, you're geared for over 200mph with a .63!

I mean, my tires are 27" tall now so the 4.30's I run aren't quite as extreme a difference on the final drive, but dang! 75mph at 2,500 gets me in enough trouble.

Angryman said:
Sorry for your loss. Glad you are back at it as this thread is by far my favorite on this site. Your build is the blueprint I am following for my build and I am shamelessly copying about 95% of it.
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Thank you!

And hey, they say imitation is the sincerest form of flattery right? I'm glad you like my build. And I don't think of it as copying at all. I've pulled most of the ideas incorporated into my build from other builds. Some are taken a step further, some benefited from things I learned by seeing someone else do it first. And some of it is because I built my Challenger up first, so when I started the Duster I already had a list of things that worked, didn't work, and realized I needed. I put detailed pictures up so other people can see what I did and use it. Copy it, improve it, dial it back a notch, take it further, whatever you want to do. If it helps you build the car you want to build, then it served its purpose.
 
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72bluNblu said:
3.23's?! Good grief man, you're geared for over 200mph with a .63!

I mean, my tires are 27" tall now so the 4.30's I run aren't quite as extreme a difference on the final drive, but dang! 75mph at 2,500 gets me in enough trouble.
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25.6" tall tires so 2000 rpm at 75 mph, perfect for cruising at speed. With EFI I can run at 1400 rpm no problem so any speed over 50 you can run in 6th. This way if/when there is ever power tour or something it'll get good fuel economy and I won't go deaf lol

I'm at 9.59:1 in 1st with the 2.97 first and the 3.23 ring and you're at 11.438 with the 2.66 1st. I don't know about you, but I basically blow the tires off as it is. It might roll out a little better with a 3.55 but nothing to complain about.
 
goldduster318 said:
25.6" tall tires so 2000 rpm at 75 mph, perfect for cruising at speed. With EFI I can run at 1400 rpm no problem so any speed over 50 you can run in 6th. This way if/when there is ever power tour or something it'll get good fuel economy and I won't go deaf lol

I'm at 9.59:1 in 1st with the 2.97 first and the 3.23 ring and you're at 11.438 with the 2.66 1st. I don't know about you, but I basically blow the tires off as it is. It might roll out a little better with a 3.55 but nothing to complain about.
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I think we've had this discussion before, but my 340 does not like to pull very hard below about 2,400. I've tuned it quite a bit and the AFR's look good with my 750 DP, but my vacuum at idle is like 11 with the cam I've got. That roller cam you have has a better bottom end than the hydraulic flat tappet I run. I was at 10.96 when I had the 833 with a 3.09 first and 3.55's, it works way better at 11.438 for 1st. That's actually where the 4.30's came from, took 1st gear in the right direction and still cruise at 70 at 2,350. It spins the 295's if I drive it like I stole it, but it can take off smooth without slipping the clutch, which was necessary with the 3.55's.
 
I have the T-56 magnum for my 69 Dart project. It’s pretty far away from install but deciding rear gears for my 8.75. I’ll probably have a around a 26” tire. I do mostly highway driving and will want this car to be my daily driver. I was thinking 4:10s or 3:91s. The engine will be the blueprint 408 base with cam lift .238 intake .474 exhaust @50-110 degree lobe separation. What gears would you run? Thank you
 
Dartsun said:
I have the T-56 magnum for my 69 Dart project. It’s pretty far away from install but deciding rear gears for my 8.75. I’ll probably have a around a 26” tire. I do mostly highway driving and will want this car to be my daily driver. I was thinking 4:10s or 3:91s. The engine will be the blueprint 408 base with cam lift .238 intake .474 exhaust @50-110 degree lobe separation. What gears would you run? Thank you
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Either of those would be fine I think. It also depends on what your 1st and 6th gear ratio's are in your T56, there are both 2.66 and 2.97 first's and .63 and .50 6th's. The spread between a 3.73 and a 4.30 rear gear is only like 400 rpm.

I went with the 4.30's just because I knew how my engine performed with my previous combo, even with a 3.09 1st and 3.55's I was slipping the clutch a little unless I was kinda hot rodding it. For a weekend car it wouldn't matter. But my car is my driver, I literally do not own a car newer than my Duster. So for commuting in traffic I didn't want to be doing that. And I was already running the freeway at like 3,300 rpm with the 3.55's and 833, so, even the 4.30's with the .63 6th was a massive improvement (like a 1k rpm drop). I also looked at what my rpm's would be in first and second at speeds that would lend themselves to autoX'ing, and the 4.30's would allow me to run faster autoX courses in second without dropping out of my power range.

Tremec has a really nice calculator you can play with, just plug in your transmission and tires and you can play with the RPM range to see what your speeds will be in every gear. I didn't see a reason to cruise below 2k rpm, my engine doesn't like it. And even with the 4.30's at 6k rpm the top end is still 180 mph, or in other words faster than I'll ever go even on a road course. On the street first gear goes by pretty fast, but it's still not the steepest first gear I've ever encountered.

https://www.tremec.com/calculadora.php
 
Hey Blu, sorry to bug you but what paint did you use for your dash?

I did try and find and answer by searching but came up blank. Thought I would just ask. :D
 
DionR said:
Hey Blu, sorry to bug you but what paint did you use for your dash?

I did try and find and answer by searching but came up blank. Thought I would just ask. :D
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It’s high temp rattle can paint for engines/headers. I’ll get back to you with the exact brand, just didn’t want you to think I was ignoring you.
 
DionR said:
To be clear, I am asking about the frame, not the IP.
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It's Duplicolor engine enamel w/ ceramic, low gloss black, DE1634. Sorry for the delay, I started using VHT high temp paint on some of my stuff so I had to do a spray out to confirm the dash paint.

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It looks good in the pictures. How close do you feel it is to factory?

I’m not shooting for resto quality on my frame, just curious.
 
DionR said:
It looks good in the pictures. How close do you feel it is to factory?

I’m not shooting for resto quality on my frame, just curious.
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It’s pretty close. The factory finish has a little more texture, it has a slightly rougher feel than the duplicolor. The factory finish is also slightly more “flat”. Not much, but a little bit. Not enough that I have any glare or reflection issues.

Here’s a side by side with my ‘71 Dart and my old glovebox door for my Duster which has the duplicolor finish.

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72bluNblu said:
It’s pretty close. The factory finish has a little more texture, it has a slightly rougher feel than the duplicolor. The factory finish is also slightly more “flat”. Not much, but a little bit. Not enough that I have any glare or reflection issues.

Here’s a side by side with my ‘71 Dart and my old glovebox door for my Duster which has the duplicolor finish.

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Perfect. Thanks!
 
Been almost another year without an update. Anything new?

Still an the edge about doing a T56 Magnum swap, but honestly even closer today. Was re-reading yours and @goldduster318's posts about the swap and honestly just feel like melting a credit card and going for broke. Unfortunately prices are up on everything. :BangHead:

Hope all is well.
 
DionR said:
Been almost another year without an update. Anything new?

Still an the edge about doing a T56 Magnum swap, but honestly even closer today. Was re-reading yours and @goldduster318's posts about the swap and honestly just feel like melting a credit card and going for broke. Unfortunately prices are up on everything. :BangHead:

Hope all is well.
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It's only gonna get worse on the prices I would think. As long as you're comfortable with this much cutting and welding, I would do it. Of course I don't care about my car being original at all.
 
DionR said:
Been almost another year without an update. Anything new?

Still an the edge about doing a T56 Magnum swap, but honestly even closer today. Was re-reading yours and @goldduster318's posts about the swap and honestly just feel like melting a credit card and going for broke. Unfortunately prices are up on everything. :BangHead:

Hope all is well.
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Yeah, the car has been on the back burner for awhile now. I moved this summer, my new house is great and an upgrade but unfortunately it put me in a spot where I have to build a shop again as it doesn't have one. Which made my move a lot slower and more complicated because of the sheer amount of cars and stuff I have. It's going to end up being a way better set up for me in the long run- bigger house, more land, and a bigger and more capable shop when I get it done but at the moment it's limited the amount of work I can do.

Right in the middle of all of that I ended up with a bunch of electrical issues, basically my Duster is going to get a new wire harness. But between moving, work and life in general I haven't actually had time to do it, so the old girl has been parked for the last few months. I was just getting to a spot where I was going to start addressing that and all the weather moved in so it hasn't happened yet. So for the first time in almost 15 years I'm daily driving a car that isn't older than I am. Before this the T56 swap was probably the longest my car had been down for upgrades.

I love the T56 swap, and I know I said this before but for me at least the most complicated part was the hydraulic clutch conversion. The welding and fabrication was actually pretty straightforward. Still a lot of work, I wouldn't call it easy, but it definitely wasn't what held me up when I did the swap. Right now I'd be a little worried about getting all the parts in a timely manner. It's weird because some stuff is available and then other stuff isn't and there isn't a whole lot of rhyme or reason to what you can or can't get. I would definitely want to have all of my parts before I started, otherwise it could be really easy to tear your car down, get half way through and get hung up waiting for some part for a couple months.
 
Hey Blu, did you have to modify your clutch pedal to work with the hydraulic setup? Seems like most everyone else has.

Getting really close to doing this. Was really leaning towards a TKX, but the extra OD is looking really good.
 
DionR said:
Hey Blu, did you have to modify your clutch pedal to work with the hydraulic setup? Seems like most everyone else has.

Getting really close to doing this. Was really leaning towards a TKX, but the extra OD is looking really good.
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I did more than I needed to. I drilled the stock pedal and removed the factory lever arm up top. Then I welded a chunk of 1/8" plate in place where the factory lever had been, and drilled a hole straight through that and the original pedal for a pivot bolt for the hydraulic clutch.

I probably could have just left the factory lever arm in place and just drilled a hole for the pivot bolt.
 
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