My "new" '74 Duster- or why I need a project like a hole in the head

[72bluNblu]

@72bluNblu I may have missed it but did you use the US Cartool inner fender braces? I know you used the J-bars but just curious as to any interference there is with big wheels and tires with the inner fender brace.

I didn’t use the USCT inner fender braces on my Duster. The J bars in the engine compartment are tied into the tops of the shock mounts.

I did install the USCT inner fender braces on my Dart, but I wasn’t planning on running 275’s on that car.

I don’t think there’d be a big interference issue with them though. It’s a little tough to explain, at full compression and at steering lock the tire is basically right at the inner fender sheet metal at the very top of the tire, and if you draw a horizontal line right through the middle of the spindle stub the widest diameter is basically on the frame rail. So, the inner fender brace should be in the corner.

But I did see a picture on here recently where someone had notched the USCT brace in the middle. But there wasn’t much explanation with it, so, I dunno. I’ll see if I can find it again

 

[72bluNblu]

Ok, latest update. I bought a set of JW Speaker Evo 2 8700 LED headlights J.W. Speaker 554941 J. W. Speaker 8700 Evo 2 DOT-Compliant Dual Burn LED Headlights | Summit Racing and installed them. As part of my wire harness upgrade I had already installed a headlight relay from @crackedback, which made a pretty significant difference with the brightness of the regular old incandescent headlights I had been running. But since the days have started getting shorter again already and my commute will soon be in the dark on my way in to work with 60 miles of driving and a decent chunk of that in "deer country" I wanted to upgrade as much as I could. Since @slantsixdan listed the JW speaker headlights as the best out there, I bit the bullet and bought them.

I did need to modify the factory buckets so the JW speaker headlights fit, I tried a few times to make it less cutting than what I ended up with but after a few trials I decided just to stop messing with it and cut the clearance I really needed. Stock bucket on the left, modified on the right. I just used a set of tin snips and filed the edges afterward

With the headlight in the bucket, you can see why the clearance was needed. I had tried to leave it so it was just cut out around the tallest fins in the middle, but it was still hitting around the edge and that was keeping the trim rings from sitting all the way down. So off it went!

I had some reservations about how they were going to look before I bought them, since they look so different from the "traditional" headlights. But after installing them, I have to say I think they look even better! And the most important part, I think they dramatically improve the vision I have on the road. Which was the whole point, since I want to keep driving in the dark!

 

[TT5.9mag]

They do look good.

 

[mpgmike]

Good Gawd you have some serious negative camber on that front tire!

 

[slant six]

Good Gawd you have some serious negative camber on that front tire!

Car likes it that way for track day and autox work. I bet the mountain passes don't mind either

 

[72bluNblu]

Good Gawd you have some serious negative camber on that front tire!

It’s only about -1° camber static, the wheel is turned a bit to the left in the picture and the +6.5° caster I run adds camber pretty quickly when turning. It’s also not on flat ground there.

I try not to go too much past -1° camber because after that you start to see the camber wear effect a bit more. Although with the amount of mountain roads I’m driving now I could probably get away with a bit more than when a lot of my driving was on the freeway.

 

[Jarlaxle]

Ok, latest update. I bought a set of JW Speaker Evo 2 8700 LED headlights J.W. Speaker 554941 J. W. Speaker 8700 Evo 2 DOT-Compliant Dual Burn LED Headlights | Summit Racing and installed them. As part of my wire harness upgrade I had already installed a headlight relay from @crackedback, which made a pretty significant difference with the brightness of the regular old incandescent headlights I had been running. But since the days have started getting shorter again already and my commute will soon be in the dark on my way in to work with 60 miles of driving and a decent chunk of that in "deer country" I wanted to upgrade as much as I could. Since @slantsixdan listed the JW speaker headlights as the best out there, I bit the bullet and bought them.

So...are they really $366 each, or is that for a pair?

 

[72bluNblu]

So...are they really $366 each, or is that for a pair?

Each.

Totally worth it too. They really improved the distance I can see at night, a lot more like a new car in terms of light output.

Since my commute has me driving before dawn for several months out of the year it’s worth it, tons of deer and other animals about where I’m at now. I’m not going to stop driving my car, but that doesn’t mean I’m not going to try to give myself the best shot at not wrecking it. Seeing further and stopping faster are the best upgrades for that.

 

[Jarlaxle]

Each.

Totally worth it too. They really improved the distance I can see at night, a lot more like a new car in terms of light output.

Since my commute has me driving before dawn for several months out of the year it’s worth it, tons of deer and other animals about where I’m at now. I’m not going to stop driving my car, but that doesn’t mean I’m not going to try to give myself the best shot at not wrecking it. Seeing further and stopping faster are the best upgrades for that.

I see no way they can be THAT much better than the <$200 Truck-Lite 27270c.

 

[72bluNblu]

I see no way they can be THAT much better than the <$200 Truck-Lite 27270c.

I'm not the expert, and I don't have a set of Truck-Lite's to personally compare. @slantsixdan puts the JW Speaker headlights as the best "by a big, big margin" even compared to the truck-lites, and he is the expert.

65 dart can I get Led lights for it?

The way I look at it is this, every foot you can see further/better is a foot faster you can stop/avoid when you see that thing you're going to hit. Sometimes hitting something and missing it is determined by less than a foot. What's that worth? A small improvement in vision can make a huge difference in the outcome. I drive in the dark quite frequently, as I said before several months out of the year for like an hour at a time every week or more, so for me I wanted the best. If you've got a weekend car you only drive in the daytime then the headlight lighting isn't nearly as important and I can understand not wanted to spend $366 on a headlight. But that's a **** load cheaper than hitting a deer and having to repair the damages.

For me I think they're totally worth it. But I wouldn't say they're right for everybody, like pretty much every modification to any system on the car it depends on how you're going to use the car.

 

[Jarlaxle]

I'm not the expert, and I don't have a set of Truck-Lite's to personally compare. @slantsixdan puts the JW Speaker headlights as the best "by a big, big margin" even compared to the truck-lites, and he is the expert.

65 dart can I get Led lights for it?

The way I look at it is this, every foot you can see further/better is a foot faster you can stop/avoid when you see that thing you're going to hit. Sometimes hitting something and missing it is determined by less than a foot. What's that worth? A small improvement in vision can make a huge difference in the outcome. I drive in the dark quite frequently, as I said before several months out of the year for like an hour at a time every week or more, so for me I wanted the best. If you've got a weekend car you only drive in the daytime then the headlight lighting isn't nearly as important and I can understand not wanted to spend $366 on a headlight. But that's a **** load cheaper than hitting a deer and having to repair the damages.

For me I think they're totally worth it. But I wouldn't say they're right for everybody, like pretty much every modification to any system on the car it depends on how you're going to use the car.

There's NOTHING in that thread except an unsupported claim that the Evolution 2 is "the king daddy of them all." Nothing as to why, no numbers, no data, no details, just one man's unsupported opinion. I expect I do more night driving than anyone else on this forum. (I'm a truck driver working 2nd shift.)

As a truck driver, I have much more confidence in Truck-Lite (I use their products every day) than I do in a company I had never heard of until yesterday.

 

[72bluNblu]

There's NOTHING in that thread except an unsupported claim that the Evolution 2 is "the king daddy of them all." Nothing as to why, no numbers, no data, no details, just one man's unsupported opinion. I expect I do more night driving than anyone else on this forum. (I'm a truck driver working 2nd shift.)

As a truck driver, I have much more confidence in Truck-Lite (I use their products every day) than I do in a company I had never heard of until yesterday.

Well, considering that Dan is in fact an automotive lighting expert with expertise and job experience in the field, I would put his opinion above yours. I’m also quite sure his opinion is based heavily on actual data and is not at all “unsupported”.

There are other threads that detail Dan’s background in the automotive lighting industry, if you care to inform your own opinion.

You can also look into this thread, which has more information than the one I previously linked Modern Headlights

 

[Jarlaxle]

Well, considering that Dan is in fact an automotive lighting expert with expertise and job experience in the field, I would put his opinion above yours. I’m also quite sure his opinion is based heavily on actual data and is not at all “unsupported”.

There are other threads that detail Dan’s background in the automotive lighting industry, if you care to inform your own opinion.

You can also look into this thread, which has more information than the one I previously linked Modern Headlights

The threads are long on advice...short on data. I need to replace my lights (lousy Amazon LED), and am reluctant to drop $700+ without hard data.

 

[slantsixdan]

I see no way they can be THAT much better than the <$200 Truck-Lite 27270c.

The relevant technical standard (Federal/Canada Motor Vehicle Safety Standard 108) allows an enormous range of intensity at all of the controlled points and zones within the beam. The law doesn't require good headlamps, just legal ones, and a pathetic $6 sealed beam sloppily made on cruddy tooling in China (dim little spot of brownish light) is equally legal as a $6,000 cutting-edge Audi full-LED headlamp (giant, wide, bright beam patterns).

Headlamp price by itself isn't a reliable gauge for how good the headlamp will be; there is a lot of expensive junk on the market (and a few real bargains here and there) but generally we don't get what we don't pay for.

That said, the Truck-Lite 27270C is a good headlamp. Not as good as the JW Speaker, but still a good headlamp.

 

[72bluNblu]

The threads are long on advice...short on data. I need to replace my lights (lousy Amazon LED), and am reluctant to drop $700+ without hard data.

Well perhaps you can send a message to Dan and he can provide you with some?

The problem with “data” though is that on a technical subject like this one the best data also requires training and experience to understand and interpret properly. This isn’t just “which one has the most lumens”, there’s a lot to it.

Understanding the physics of light, the physiology and mechanics of human vision etc are all a part of it. So just looking at some specs on the internet probably isn’t going to allow someone without training to make the best decision. There are experts for a reason, the whole point is that they understand the subject better than you. Which is why I’m perfectly happy taking advice from one.

 

[Jarlaxle]

The relevant technical standard (Federal/Canada Motor Vehicle Safety Standard 108) allows an enormous range of intensity at all of the controlled points and zones within the beam. The law doesn't require good headlamps, just legal ones, and a pathetic $6 sealed beam sloppily made on cruddy tooling in China (dim little spot of brownish light) is equally legal as a $6,000 cutting-edge Audi full-LED headlamp (giant, wide, bright beam patterns).

Headlamp price by itself isn't a reliable gauge for how good the headlamp will be; there is a lot of expensive junk on the market (and a few real bargains here and there) but generally we don't get what we don't pay for.

That said, the Truck-Lite 27270C is a good headlamp. Not as good as the JW Speaker, but still a good headlamp.

Do you have any hard data about any of the LED headlights?

 

[slantsixdan]

Do you have any hard data about any of the LED headlights?

Yes. Most of it is not released for publishing (and I like to buy groceries and stuff, so it's best if I don't lose my job by violating confidence), so I do my best to summarise it helpfully when questions like this come up.

 

[slantsixdan]

The threads are long on advice...short on data. I need to replace my lights (lousy Amazon LED), and am reluctant to drop $700+ without hard data.

Even if you must have LEDs, you don't need to spend anywhere near $700+ to have worthy headlamps. Here's a good one, and here's another good one—for less than half of $700/pair.

 

[barbee6043]

Us old half blinds farts just drive the old cars in the day time. Problem solved.

 

[72bluNblu]

Us old half blinds farts just drive the old cars in the day time. Problem solved.

Sure! Don't fix the actual problem, just don't drive the car!

Sorry, but if the visibility at night using the ~50 year old lighting system is sub-par I'm upgrading the lighting, not parking the car. If you look back up to the top of the page you'll see that I already replaced the whole wire harness, and I set the headlights up on one of crackedbacks relay harnesses. That made a big difference to the light output of the sealed beams I had in there, but I still wasn't happy. Switching to the JW Speaker EVO 8700's made a HUGE difference in visibility. As I said earlier, I haven't run the Truck-Lites so I can't compare them to the JW Speakers. I am perfectly happy taking slantsixdan's recommendation when he says the JW Speakers are the best, he is the expert. But I can say that compared to the sealed beam headlights that were on there before the difference is amazing, and I am definitely happy with my decision to go with the more expensive JW speaker headlights, I totally think they were worth it.

This is my opinion, but I would much rather upgrade my car to do the driving I want to do instead of limiting my driving to match the outdated safety equipment of a ~50 year old car. If you'd rather park your car than replace the outdated safety equipment, this probably isn't the thread for you.

 

[slantsixdan]

Or stated another way: even the most expensive headlamps you can install on an A-body are orders of magnitude cheaper than a crash. Body parts for cars are expensive; body parts for people even more so.

 

[72bluNblu]

Or stated another way: even the most expensive headlamps you can install on an A-body are orders of magnitude cheaper than a crash. Body parts for cars are expensive; body parts for people even more so.

Exactly so.

And a couple feet of visibility is a pretty small difference. Brakes are the same way, the improvement in braking distance keeps getting smaller and smaller as you continue to upgrade further. But a couple of feet can be the difference between no damage at all and thousands of dollars in repairs or worse.

Obviously there's more expensive/better stuff out there than what I've got on my car, I don't have unlimited funds to chase diminishing returns. But I will certainly do my best to upgrade safety equipment like lighting, braking, handling performance etc so I can keep driving my car the way I want to.

 

[Mattax]

The threads are long on advice...short on data. I need to replace my lights (lousy Amazon LED), and am reluctant to drop $700+ without hard data.

Reasonable question as there are lots of self styled experts, and many of them active on internet forums...
For some, like Daniel Stern, that's his real name and a search engine will bring up enough that you may feel comfortable that he is a professional in the vehicle lighting field, and working from data and measurements when possible.

I'll give you some links that may help you see where he is coming from, and what sort of information he uses, along with how it corroborates with some other knowledgeable sources on the internet (and there very few I put in that catagory).

A good, solid, web resource for automotive lighting:
Candlepower Forums: Automotive, Motorcycle.
Browse or use the search function as appropriate.
This is an additional resource to what Dan posts here, not an instead of.
For example, Trucklite LED turns up this
7 inch LED conversions

(Dan Stern has an example of how many more lumens produced at different voltages here Daniel Stern Lighting Consultancy and Supply)

Ask for the photometry isographs. That would give a better idea of the effectiveness than the photos.
'Virgil' on candlepower forum or 'slantsixdan' here might be willing to help review and interpret them.
Dan has a little introduction here, and some examples.
The How and Why of Beam Isoplots

Posts here on an example of spotting misleading markings Modern Headlights Stern's website has some lists explaining the meaning of many of the lamp markings.

I realize this is all a sidetrack from a build thread, but thought it was appropriate to answer the man's question.

 

[barbee6043]

Like I said we are old folk living in the sticks. There is NOT one place I need to drive to at night!!!!
I know one thing. If a we had to go out of town and late getting back like at NIGHT< the new brite headlites just about blind me. But thats OK as long as the dopers, idiots, and drunks can see.

 

[72bluNblu]

Like I said we are old folk living in the sticks. There is NOT one place I need to drive to at night!!!!
I know one thing. If a we had to go out of town and late getting back like at NIGHT< the new brite headlites just about blind me. But thats OK as long as the dopers, idiots, and drunks can see.

And like I said before, perhaps this thread isn’t for you.

If you no longer have to drive at night for any reason then congratulations, but I work for a living and have reasons I have to drive at night. Or more correctly, early in the morning before the sun comes up, when people with longer commutes have to hit the road.

And I dunno about where you live, but around here the brightest lights on the road are from brand new cars. And it certainly isn’t “dopers, idiots, and drunks” buying those.