Need A Little help Please

[PRH]

Trust me J Par....... everyone on this site knows no one can out talk you.

How about this...... you show me the post in this thread where you contributed something useful to the OP’s question?

 

[j par]

Trust me J Par....... everyone on this site knows no one can out talk you.

How about this...... you show me the post in this thread where you contributed something useful to the OP’s question?

you win I'm done I just can't go back and forth with you I just never wanted to in the first place and now there hasn't been anything technical spoke about except for you attacking me..
I don't have anything to prove to you..
Enjoy your day...

 

[j par]

MSD pro billet, 110 fuel Autolite plugs. Can't give out mothers maiden name. lol. So what I'm reading is Maybe not enough cam, converter to tight , combo is totally wrong. Now the question comes where to start. Cam, converter or combo. Guess no real hard answer is there. Will sleep on it and figure out where to start or live with what I got. Hate to waste power that should be there. $$$ spent for little results. Just would like to get by second round 1 time.

Thanks for setting me straight I'm reading to much into this. I need to grab a quick breath and get the eyes and brain on same level

Just in case you would like to continue after you've had your breath and got your thoughts back together... after page two page three and four were non-content to your issues...
I would call this a good jumping back on point and be interested in which direction you ended up going...
also I was still interested in my first question of who made your cam recommendation?..

 

[Dart 67 sedan]

Lunati cam. Didn't mean to get the thread bent out of shape. Thanks guys

 

[j par]

Lunati cam. Didn't mean to get the thread bent out of shape. Thanks guys

Oh it was "solely" me that got the thread bent out of condition and apparently it's my apologies that are needed...
I hear luteni has a good reputation, but I wasn't sure if you did give your profile? Duration, lift, lobe separation..?..
also now that you've had a couple days of thinking is there any direction you're wanting to head first?..

 

[PRH]

Should be part number 40200914, or some variation of it.

I’m pretty sure those are some Ultra-
Dyne lobes that Harold Brookshire brought over to Lunati when he was there designing the VooDoo stuff for them.
That family of lobes is pretty aggressive, so they tend to act a little bigger than they look on paper.

Do a cranking compression test.
You’d really like to be in the 200psi range.

 

[Dart 67 sedan]

Yes that is the cam in the engine. 273/ 281 640/640 106/00 lsa with.26 .26 lash. will be doing compression check after filling up on turkey. Compression test , order gears and see if I can find out where cam is set. HAPPY TURKEY DAY TO ALL YOU GUYS and THANKS

 

[yellow rose]

Yes that is the cam in the engine. 273/ 281 640/640 106/00 lsa with.26 .26 lash. will be doing compression check after filling up on turkey. HAPPY TURKEY TO ALL YOU GUYS and THANKS

If that is one of Harold's lobes and it most likely is, it should be installed on a 100 ICL. I'd bet good money it's not, because the de facto ICL is 4 degrees ahead of LSA. You can thank Comp for that.

Just one of those things that happens.

Did you time the cam or did someone else?


Edit: I should have mentioned that I have personal knowledge of several engine builder miss reading Harold's cam card. You posted 106/00 and to me, that means the cam is on a 106 LSA and Harold wanted it in at a 100 ICL. Some guys read that as a 106 LSA installed on a 106 ICL...meaning they see the 00 as straight up, as in no advance or retard.

I've only seen one Ultradyne cam that went in with only 4 degrees advance and that was a big block Oldsmobile for a boat...which actually sank. But that's a different story.

 

[Dart 67 sedan]

someone else

 

[justinp61]

Yes that is the cam in the engine. 273/ 281 640/640 106/00 lsa with.26 .26 lash. will be doing compression check after filling up on turkey. Compression test , order gears and see if I can find out where cam is set. HAPPY TURKEY DAY TO ALL YOU GUYS and THANKS

I'd hold up on the gears until I checked everything out. In fact I'd wait until after I had the converter right before I changed them.

What is the compression ratio? 4" crank?

 

[Dart 67 sedan]

11;1 with 4in crank

 

[justinp61]

11;1 with 4in crank

Please let us know what you find after doing the cranking compression test. I'll be surprised if you are close to the numbers that Dwayne mentioned.

At your weight and gears it should be very strong down low if it's right.

 

[flyfish]

I'd hold up on the gears until I checked everything out. In fact I'd wait until after I had the converter right before I changed them............

^^^^This, 100%. With that cam I would want closer to 13:1 compression....just my opinion, but I would definitely not buy gears until you find the lost power...other wise the car will probably just run the same, but in 3rd gear at the stripe.

 

[PRH]

Yeh, I’m not optimistic about achieving nirvana with that cam, 5000 stall and 11:1cr.

 

[Garrett Ellison]

Me either! On top of that, Lunati recommends “4.88 gearing or better” on their website. They also state 4500-5000 rpm stall & 11:1 or better, but agree all the way around those numbers are too low as well.

 

[justinp61]

Me either! On top of that, Lunati recommends “4.88 gearing or better” on their website. They also state 4500-5000 rpm stall & 11:1 or better, but agree all the way around those numbers are too low as well.

I'd say if that cam was in a well built 340 or 360 that much gear, or more would be needed. IMO, with a 4" crank not so much.

 

[PRH]

Keep in mind the cam mfg gearing recommendation are based on 1/4 mile.

I think at 11:1 the cranking pressure with that cam is going to be a fair amount under 200....... but best to actually check it instead of guess.

For 11:1, I’d have probably been looking at about an 8-10* shorter cam.

 

[Cudafever]

Just to add to every one else compression check first!

Now if the cam was just installed with the dots lined up, for cam timing, it could be retarded even more.
advancing the cam move the torque down lower, retarding the cam make it rev higher(vary base statement)

If the op hasn't degreed a cam before..........It may be time to learn.
compression check first.

 

[lead69]

It will be interesting for sure to see where the cranking compression winds up,imo thats alot of cam for that compression as others have said. As far as advancing the cam a buddy of mine used to work for a well known engine builder in socal and they would advance the cam to get the most cranking psi and leave it there without regard to where the cam timing came out. Of course they made sure they had enough p-to-v clearance.

 

[Garrett Ellison]

Exactly what he says, increase it until it doesn't gain any further and set it back. But as stated with that much lift, though, intake to piston clearance can get pretty skimpy when advancing the camshaft.... A set of MP .028 head gaskets probably wouldn't hurt anything if you have it apart to check piston to valve clearance if the piston to valve allows it. If the compression is 11:1 or less, 100 octane would probably be worth some power over 110.

 

[yellow rose]

Ok put on your thinking hats and help me decide on rear gear. I'm running a 410 W2 race head engine that's been set to run in the higher power band. 6800 to 7200 trouble is I'm going thur the lights just shifting into 3/rd gear, with 727 trans with 5000 stall. Shifting to second at about 330 foot wit 1.4/ 1;5 60 ft. Need gear right? Question is 4:88 or 5:13 I can only afford one new setup. 4:56 in the car now. running 7:10 99 mph. 2800 pound car. New gear I'd hope would get me into the mid 6's
I think that is within reason. So any suggestions will go a long way to helping me. thanks guys

Running through some of your numbers and they make even less sense now. I don't like using 1/8 mile MPH or ET. If you do that, you don't account for half the track.

I have never bought into the idea of gearing for 1/8 mile only. If you do that, you have too much low gear. So I always gear for the 1/4 and let it run what it runs in the 1/8 and then change gears in the transmission if I need more first gear.

Just using your weight and a very safe 550 HP (and if that's all you have, you have some engine issues) and the numbers look like this.

2800 pounds at 550 HP is ~ 9.80ish at 137ish in the 1/4.

If we take those numbers and keep working them, it's easy to see what gear you need. My math says:

137 MPH with your 28 inch tall tire at 7000 RPM says you need a 4.30 gear. It's just simple math.

And that's with a measly 550 HP. On W2 heads that's at a very minimum 50 HP low. At least. 75 HP off wouldn't be a stretch.

If we do the math for 600 HP at the same RPM and tire size you end up with:

9.60ish at about 141 MPH and at 7000 RPM and you'd need a 4.10 gear.

Somewhere you are way, way off.

That's just my 9th grade math. But I'd bet on it if I had to.

 

[Les Gibson]

This discussion has got me thinking that, besides having a converter that isn’t right, the cam in my engine may not be set right. Definitely going to have that checked out.