Need A Little help Please

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Cam timing. I had the same issue. Cam was to far advanced and my top rings were shot. 456 with 28's. Listen to when I was shifting drive and watch the board lights when they were coming on. Car went 1050's through full exhaust. weight was 3650. I would do a leak down test and check the cam timing. My son is not here or I could tell you where the timing was and where it is now. I know the distributor was locked at 35 btc. Top ring was flush with the side of the piston. No tension left at all. You can throw all the gear and tires you want at it. If the engine is lacking torque it won't pull on the bottom. Mine didn't
 
.The carb/intake combo is AED 950HO with Holley strip dominator mild port work, trap speed is 99mph@5900. Ultimate converter flashing at 5300.I will mention going into the trap the car starts to pickup and start to move, it seems to want to move at this point. timing is something I will have to TNT with. Right now it is set 34 degrees thinking might need to up to about 38.
 
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The current combo as it sits is showing roughly about 10% slip at the 1/8.

There are two issues as I see it:
-5300 isn’t enough stall for a 272/280 cam in a 410.
Needs 500+ more stall.

-the motor seems to be down on power for the sum of its parts.
But, perhaps the heads just aren’t that good, CR isn’t exactly what it should be, cam is a poor match, etc.

Try some 5.13’s........ if the 60’ times are still soft, send the converter out and get it loosened up(or put a shorter duration cam in it that’s happy with 5300 stall).

If you’re looking for more after that, time to start figuring out where to find more power.

Has anyone done a cranking compression test on the motor just to see what the number is?
 
Heads have 2.08 /1.60 valves port work and flowing high 280's so I hope the heads are right.$$$$.. Cam is an area I can look at. Will call for info on this. Cam was recommend for weight, rear, trans etc. I'm at their mercy on this. Will do compression test next weekend. Thanks for all of your in put everyone. will keep looking for those RPM's
 
Dart 67 sedan said:
Heads have 2.08 /1.60 valves port work and flowing high 280's so I hope the heads are right.$$$$.. Cam is an area I can look at. Will call for info on this. Cam was recommend for weight, rear, trans etc. I'm at their mercy on this. Will do compression test next weekend. Thanks for all of your in put everyone. will keep looking for those RPM's
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At high 280's you should be 600 or better HP.
 
Dart 67 sedan said:
Heads have 2.08 /1.60 valves port work and flowing high 280's so I hope the heads are right.$$$$.. Cam is an area I can look at. Will call for info on this. Cam was recommend for weight, rear, trans etc. I'm at their mercy on this. Will do compression test next weekend. Thanks for all of your in put everyone. will keep looking for those RPM's
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Who made the cam recommendation?...
 
j par said:
Who made the cam recommendation?...
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Good question.

OMM also mentioned cam timing. If that hasn't been verified, it needs to be.

The first thing that jumped at me was how little lift he is running. That's only ~ .030 more than I run and IMHO he should be netting .700 IF his valve gear isn't jacked up.

I hate to be THAT guy (but I have to be because I am THAT guy) I think the OP needs to take a short break, pull the engine and put it on a dyno. Then take it apart and see what you have, then fix what you don't like and then back on the pump again.

Take those numbers from the dyno and all the other specs from the engine and car and send the converter back to whoever made it and make them get the stall up where it needs to be.

I have a personal animosity to converter guys. Too many times they end up with slower stall than the engine requires.

At this point in time, a 5500 converter is essentially a N/A street converter.

If you ain't data logging it makes it hard to nail down actual converter performance.

Converters matter.

Ramble off. For now.
 
yellow rose said:
Good question.

OMM also mentioned cam timing. If that hasn't been verified, it needs to be.

The first thing that jumped at me was how little lift he is running. That's only ~ .030 more than I run and IMHO he should be netting .700 IF his valve gear isn't jacked up.

I hate to be THAT guy (but I have to be because I am THAT guy) I think the OP needs to take a short break, pull the engine and put it on a dyno. Then take it apart and see what you have, then fix what you don't like and then back on the pump again.

Take those numbers from the dyno and all the other specs from the engine and car and send the converter back to whoever made it and make them get the stall up where it needs to be.

I have a personal animosity to converter guys. Too many times they end up with slower stall than the engine requires.

At this point in time, a 5500 converter is essentially a N/A street converter.

If you ain't data logging it makes it hard to nail down actual converter performance.

Converters matter.

Ramble off. For now.
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First and foremost.. .030 more than I run??? :rolleyes:..
Toke.gif
... I'll need a cheeseburger to believe that one....:poke:..
My biggest fear on the cam recommendation is it wasn't someone liked and I'm just throwing names out here I don't know these people but racer brown or someone like that.. NOT calling some big conglomerate who has a massive tech line that gets back to you a week later with some pimply face kid and his slide ruler for suggestions...
 
j par said:
First and foremost.. .030 more than I run??? :rolleyes:..View attachment 1715427829... I'll need a cheeseburger to believe that one....:poke:..
My biggest fear on the cam recommendation is it wasn't someone liked and I'm just throwing names out here I don't know these people but racer brown or someone like that.. NOT calling some big conglomerate who has a massive tech line that gets back to you a week later with some pimply face kid and his slide ruler for suggestions...
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Well...you got me on that one. I was wrong on the lift numbers.

I said he was ~ .030 more gross lift than me. And that wasn't correct.

It's actually .020 and my net is .606/.604 and he is probably .616/.616 depending on his lash.
 
yellow rose said:
Well...you got me on that one. I was wrong on the lift numbers.

I said he was ~ .030 more gross lift than me. And that wasn't correct.

It's actually .020 and my net is .606/.604 and he is probably .616/.616 depending on his lash.
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Stop playing with your dad's magazines and do your chores....
 
Imo, the valve lift is a non-issue.

Op says he’s at the mercy of the cam grinder?
They’ll sell you anything you want.

And..... Imo #2(and we all have ‘em), a 272/280 cam in a 410 and 5300 stall is a mismatch(I ran 5400 stall in a 383 with a much smaller flat tappet cam and a dual plane manifold).

It’s self evident by the cars performance that the combo isn’t optimized.
 
I’m wondering what the static compression and the LSA & ICL numbers are on this. How about a rundown of the ignition system, fuel being used, and spark plugs?
 
PRH said:
Imo, the valve lift is a non-issue.

Op says he’s at the mercy of the cam grinder?
They’ll sell you anything you want.

And..... Imo #2(and we all have ‘em), a 272/280 cam in a 410 and 5300 stall is a mismatch(I ran 5400 stall in a 383 with a much smaller flat tappet cam and a dual plane manifold).

It’s self evident by the cars performance that the combo isn’t optimized.
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For me, lift is an issue. I never care what the flow curve looks like (well...I do but I don't quit with lift just because the head backs up some...because the intake manifold takes some of that away, and I don't think a valve lifted past .250 or so will ever see a depression near 28 inches) I try and get all the lift the valve gear will take reliably and get lobes to work with that.

The rest of it I'm fully on board with.
 
yellow rose said:
For me, lift is an issue. I never care what the flow curve looks like (well...I do but I don't quit with lift just because the head backs up some...because the intake manifold takes some of that away, and I don't think a valve lifted past .250 or so will ever see a depression near 28 inches) I try and get all the lift the valve gear will take reliably and get lobes to work with that.

The rest of it I'm fully on board with.
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You know I was at my house and I had a few friends over and we were talking about cam lift as opposed to duration and things like that...
While Don Prudhomme, Bob Glidden, Kenny Bernstein, John Force and Mickey Thompson we're all in agreeance about lift, Tony Schumacher, Pat Austin, Larry Dixon, Bob Glidden and Warren Johnson we're talking more about duration...
Just then Shirley Muldowney came in and called them all a bunch of pussies... And said she's kicked all their asses at one time or another... All while Sox and Martin were just laughing at all of them...
That's my story and I'm sticking to it....
 
j par said:
You know I was at my house and I had a few friends over and we were talking about cam lift as opposed to duration and things like that...
While Don Prudhomme, Bob Glidden, Kenny Bernstein, John Force and Mickey Thompson we're all in agreeance about lift, Tony Schumacher, Pat Austin, Larry Dixon, Bob Glidden and Warren Johnson we're talking more about duration...
Just then Shirley Muldowney came in and called them all a bunch of pussies... And said she's kicked all their asses at one time or another... All while Sox and Martin were just laughing at all of them...
That's my story and I'm sticking to it....
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LOL. If I showed you a picture of all those people you couldn't name them.

Besides, Glidden is dead and so is Micky Thompson and I haven't seen Pat Austin since 2001 when I had him make up a set of tapered pushrods for me (nice pieces BTW) but it is your fantasy so it can be whoever you want.

When will you learn your fantasies will never live up to my real life???? LOL.
 
yellow rose said:
LOL. If I showed you a picture of all those people you couldn't name them.

Besides, Glidden is dead and so is Micky Thompson and I haven't seen Pat Austin since 2001 when I had him make up a set of tapered pushrods for me (nice pieces BTW) but it is your fantasy so it can be whoever you want.

When will you learn your fantasies will never live up to my real life???? LOL.
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and of course I'm in Internet supermodel so let's go ahead and get back to the question at hand.. and until then cheeseburger..
 
I'm far from a cam expert but you say that you can feel it come on or start pulling........More stall or less duration.

If your losing 60' times and, losing time after each shift........it's going to run slower......than expected.

If it feels like a 2-stroke and you know when it comes on the pipe.......That's probably the rpm you want your stall.......at least.
Or a cam that will come on much sooner to take advantage of your 5000 stall

Then settle in on a rear gear ratio.
lower gears will help.......but it's more like a band aid.
 
MSD pro billet, 110 fuel Autolite plugs. Can't give out mothers maiden name. lol. So what I'm reading is Maybe not enough cam, converter to tight , combo is totally wrong. Now the question comes where to start. Cam, converter or combo. Guess no real hard answer is there. Will sleep on it and figure out where to start or live with what I got. Hate to waste power that should be there. $$$ spent for little results. Just would like to get by second round 1 time.
 
So what I'm reading is Maybe not enough cam, converter to tight , combo is totally wrong.
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Really? That’s your take away?

Huh....... I kinda saw it as “get the cam and converter on the same page, re-test...... change gears if necessary”.

As for the “not enough cam”........ that is def not the problem.
 
Thanks for setting me straight I'm reading to much into this. I need to grab a quick breath and get the eyes and brain on same level
 
PRH said:
The “path of least resistance” is more gear and more stall.
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I agree. I think if the OP isn't 100% sure where the cam is degreed at, he needs to verify that. At the very minimum he needs to pull the valve cover and look at the rocker arms on crossover (overlap) and that should at least let him know if the cam timing is even relatively close.
 
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