New Hemi Swap with Borgeson Steering Box?

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redlinegw

redlinegw

Shannon
Joined
Aug 14, 2008
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Location
Newhall, CA
I am considering installing a 6.1 Hemi into my Plymouth Valiant and I have the new Borgeson steering box, has anyone fit one in with this setup yet?

 
Yes, Wade aka Uchoog did it last week and my headers will be here Friday do I can mock mine up in the car. Wade had to do some dinging even with the new pipes made for the Borgeson.
 
Yes, I've done this in my spool mount duster.

I would recommend you WAIT to do this until TTI has the bugs worked out of these headers. Peter told me there were 6 sets out total, including mine. Peter installed a set (with bad fitment), I have a set (with bad fitment), and Rick Ehrenberg has a set (unknown how they fit for him). Peter told me that TTI is going to 'fix' the issues. Don't know how true that is.

Here was my email to Peter with the issues outlined:

"Here are the inconsistencies.
-Passenger side header required a huge chunk taken from the lakewood bellhousing. Other than that, it fit fine with about 5/16-3/8" clearance from torsion bar. EDIT: I also had to clearance the header tube near the factory idler arm. Flattened it out, otherwise I couldn't turn the wheel.
-Drivers side header was the problem. First, tubes 3 & 7 had dents from tti for torsion bar clearance. #5 did not, so I had to dent it. #3&7 had approx 5/16-3/8" clearance from torsion bar, #5 was on the bar and keeping the flange from sitting flat.
-My crank height is correct
- my crank is not offset by 3", which TTI instructions say it should ( mine is closer
to 2 3/8-2 1/2). I've already notched the passenger fender and ground on the valve cover for clearance for the valve covers, so I cannot go any further. Mind you, this is a spool mount car. Also, passenger side header has 5/16-3/8" clearance from the torsion bar, as did #3&7 on drivers side, so I didn't have room to move the 1/4-5/16" required to get a full 3" offset. I also measured my tailshaft, which was 2 1/4", closer to my measurement than tti's 3". Factory offset was at or under 2" I believe.
-#1 tube required a lot of BFH, and I had to grind on the borgeson box. It does finally sit in the mount fully, but is probably still touching.
-#5 also needed BFH to clear Bergman's steering coupler.

I probably have 4+ hours in fitting the headers (not including time spent installing them)."

I'm very disappointed. I bought these headers thinking they would fit better than the set I made for my 5.7 heads, but they did not in the slightest. I bought these to do a quick swap so as to make a road race (made it), but nearly didn't make it in large part thanks to the poor header fitment.
 
It seems my photobucket account is down (or running really slow). I'll post pictures later when it works.
 




First dent. Required Much more than this.




driver's side before dent you see above:


Passenger side clearance:


Box vs header before any denting (notice how far off the mount the steering box is sitting):
 
What a bunch of bs, I probably have set number 6 since I already have a tracking #.
 
Thanks for the pics! I talked to Peter and I am sticking with my 360 until something gets sorted out. Thanks for all the responses!
 
72BBSwinger said:
What a bunch of bs, I probably have set number 6 since I already have a tracking #.
Click to expand...

Lucky you. Did you buy direct or through someone else?

Don't forget I have a spool mount car. Who knows, maybe they're 'made' for biscuit mount cars and I'm the first spool mount car.

Like we discussed - I think your best bet is to make your own mounts. If my motor had been forward a bit, it would have helped with the steering box issue (though it would have made the passenger side header / idler arm problem worse).
 
I was hoping this header was one of 2 missing pieces to building the ultimate A body. The second is the Passon 5 speed. I'd love to boost sales of the TTI header, but as Shannon said, I will not sell this header until its straightened out. My coupler is at TTI now, and Sam (the owner) agreed to re jig the setup and see whats going on. I believe there will be resolution to this, but it will take a little time.
 
Uhcoog1,

As always, thanks for the well thought out and well documented post. A lot of guys would post something to the effect, "Stupid TTI didn't fit very well at all." Leaving me to wonder if the real issue wasn't an installer error. Your post put that to rest, clearly the TTIs don't fit well. For 750.00 they should fit.

I was really hoping that the borgeson box and a set of TTIs would make power steering and a clean install, looks like TTI needs to stop treating people who shell out 750.00 dollars as beta testers.

Regards,

Joe Dokes
 
I talked to Sam from TTI and he said the headers are identical to the other one except for the 1-3 tubes. He really didn't think there was a problem, but admits the mock up and display K member was biscuit andthat could be the problem. I don't know what to do, they didn't say "send them back, we'll take care of it" instead I got "try it and send pictures of what you figure out". I'll decide when they're in my hands.
 
72BBSwinger said:
I talked to Sam from TTI and he said the headers are identical to the other one except for the 1-3 tubes. He really didn't think there was a problem, but admits the mock up and display K member was biscuit andthat could be the problem. I don't know what to do, they didn't say "send them back, we'll take care of it" instead I got "try it and send pictures of what you figure out". I'll decide when they're in my hands.
Click to expand...

Keep us posted.

Thanks,

Joe Dokes
 
Kevin down at Hotchkis East will be fitting one in my Dart. TTI Spool mounts, TTI headers and a 6.4.

He can let you know how much butchering is required. I wouldn't order the coated headers to start with.
 
I'm gonna pull the column and set the block and trans in today if I can stay awake. Headers should be here tomorrow.
 
Pretty much same deal as you, maybe less but even with bolt removed from steering box it was all I could do to not scratch the #1 tube. Plus the forward most driver side header bolt was off from all the rest and would need drilled out to even get a bolt started IF I was gonna run it, which im not at this point. I dont think I would need as big a dent as you did Wade but a dent is needed none the less. Not just a ding, a DENT.
 
I ran 1 step larger drill bit through the front bolt hole and gasket. Very difficult to get started without cross threading even afterwards.

Glad you confirmed this. Thought it could be just me.
 
Uhcoog1 said:
???
Click to expand...

I think he was refering to his earlier post where he was going to try to snake the header in with the steering column removed to see if he could make a go of it.

Thus, the "Yeah, No" indicated that it still doesn't fit.

If I'm wrong please feel free to correct me.

Regards,

Joe Dokes
 
Joe Dokes said:
I think he was refering to his earlier post where he was going to try to snake the header in with the steering column removed to see if he could make a go of it.

Thus, the "Yeah, No" indicated that it still doesn't fit.

If I'm wrong please feel free to correct me.

Regards,

Joe Dokes
Click to expand...

I figured as much. Just wanted details, that's all.
 
Well here is how they fit with engine shoved as far to the passenger side as it would go..
Here is how close it had to be to pass side

And here is where I will put it regardless of TTI's recommendations, the engine needs to be straight in the engine bay not cockeyed.
 
And lets not forget the pic that suckered us all into this whole deal....
 
Well all the advice I got from TTI was to move engine forward for clearance. Yeah since I havent built any engine mounts, yeas that is a solution to the headers not fitting. How are guys with spool mounts going to accomplish this? I also have always had to bind my column all the way to engine side of the bolt holes to get it to slide on to the steering box. So I may slot the steering box holes like an 1/8" just for more breathing room. May slot trans mount holes 3/16" and use a button head allen bolt in place of the one missing and see how that all ends up. Should have my oil pan Thursday so that is my final missing link for setting engine location and welding in mounts. Wish me luck.
 
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