new lazy lifter....

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Mopar92 said:
so you can’t answer my original question either. Or throw some relevant information. I don’t want to use solid lifters. It’s simple. I had no idea the members of FABO are so sensitive to hyd vs solids. Good grief.
Click to expand...


To answer your question...you MAY be able to pull it out, take the lifter apart and clean it and maybe it won't make noise.

That's the best answer there is. You can try a new lifter.

The biggest issue I've found with these lifters is the thinner oils. I know all the hydraulic roller lifter lovers are now claiming if you use the "correct" SUS oil, or CsT oil, whichever measure they use, everything will be unicorns and rainbows.

I'm saying I don't buy it. I know from dyno testing we could never make any hydraulic lifter engine happy with thin oils. If I was doing another hydraulic lifter engine, it would be set up to use 20w50 oil, and even though I know that sucks, it is what it is.

To watch the engine on the dyno, and look at the numbers from the dyno when the lifter is struggling to stay pumped up is amazing. I didn't figure it out on my own. It took some phone time and brain power to learn what happens.

They (they being the gurus who love to sell the idea that a hydraulic lifters internals are happy with cam lobes that are much faster than they were 15-20 years ago if you use a thin oil...I say they are NOT and I say they'd rather have a heavier grad oil) say the "new" lifters have might tighter internal clearances than ever before and this means that thin oil is the answer. I say bull.

I also say one other issue I've found using hydraulic lifters (especially hydraulic roller lifters where the lobes are pretty fast) is low oil pressure.

Low oil pressure is a power and RPM killer with hydraulic lifters. So is volume, but I'm not going there.

You didn't say what cam you have, so we have no idea what lobes you are using. You didn't say what oil you use, it's grade and how much idle oil pressure you have.

That's the best I have.
 
yellow rose said:
To answer your question...you MAY be able to pull it out, take the lifter apart and clean it and maybe it won't make noise.

That's the best answer there is. You can try a new lifter.

The biggest issue I've found with these lifters is the thinner oils. I know all the hydraulic roller lifter lovers are now claiming if you use the "correct" SUS oil, or CsT oil, whichever measure they use, everything will be unicorns and rainbows.

I'm saying I don't buy it. I know from dyno testing we could never make any hydraulic lifter engine happy with thin oils. If I was doing another hydraulic lifter engine, it would be set up to use 20w50 oil, and even though I know that sucks, it is what it is.

To watch the engine on the dyno, and look at the numbers from the dyno when the lifter is struggling to stay pumped up is amazing. I didn't figure it out on my own. It took some phone time and brain power to learn what happens.

They (they being the gurus who love to sell the idea that a hydraulic lifters internals are happy with cam lobes that are much faster than they were 15-20 years ago if you use a thin oil...I say they are NOT and I say they'd rather have a heavier grad oil) say the "new" lifters have might tighter internal clearances than ever before and this means that thin oil is the answer. I say bull.

I also say one other issue I've found using hydraulic lifters (especially hydraulic roller lifters where the lobes are pretty fast) is low oil pressure.

Low oil pressure is a power and RPM killer with hydraulic lifters. So is volume, but I'm not going there.

You didn't say what cam you have, so we have no idea what lobes you are using. You didn't say what oil you use, it's grade and how much idle oil pressure you have.

That's the best I have.
Click to expand...
And more than he deserves...
 
j par said:
What surprises me that your Builder didn't just use solid lifters...
Click to expand...

Mopar92 said:
Why in the hell would I want to listen to noisy lifters in a very mild engine? And have to adjust them every 8 miles. Solid lifters have their place... and that’s not in my weekend cruisers. To each their own but that’s dumb and going backwards to do that. I don’t want the hassle of solids for a basically stock 360. No thanks.
Click to expand...
^^^^can you clearly see where I just said that "I was surprised that the Builder didn't go with solid lifters"?

Then you start out with "what the hell" and go on to this childish rage about "adjusting lifters every 8 Miles"? And all the "noises" that they make? Why don't you grow up...
EDIT: IDIOT...
 
Mopar92 said:
They are US made lifters. You clearly read the replies and not the original post.
Click to expand...
I have had "better" not perfect success with lunati microtrol lifters and know of a few other that have as well.I have no idea who makes them and they still are not perfectly quiet but way better than the typical sealed power or even johnson lifter. I cannot guarantee anything though as this was a few years ago.
 
And everything that has been built lately with hydraulic flat tappets that I know of has been noisy,including chevy and pontiac engines.
 
toolmanmike said:
Now you are agreeing with YR!
Click to expand...

toolmanmike said:
Back to the lazy lifter. We never had those problems before. Can't those Chinese make stuff right? I wonder if it's tolerances or leaving out steps like deburring or cleaning.
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I'm sorry I had to hit the disagree button I didn't agree with YR (Officially):rolleyes:
I don't think he likes you calling his lifters Chinese... You can call my SM's Chinese, I don't care...:thumbsup:...
 
lead69 said:
And everything that has been built lately with hydraulic flat tappets that I know of has been noisy,including chevy and pontiac engines.
Click to expand...
This statement brings us directly back to the oil discussion.
 
Bodyperson said:
This statement brings us directly back to the oil discussion.
Click to expand...
All these guys are buddies and we all use brad penn or equivalent quality oil,the guy with the pontiac settled on 20w50 for the best results.
 
lead69 said:
All these guys are buddies and we all use brad penn or equivalent quality oil,the guy with the pontiac settled on 20w50 for the best results.
Click to expand...
20w 50 seems to be a fix. but is it? Seems like a solution to a symptom.
 
j par said:
^^^^can you clearly see where I just said that "I was surprised that the Builder didn't go with solid lifters"?

Then you start out with "what the hell" and go on to this childish rage about "adjusting lifters every 8 Miles"? And all the "noises" that they make? Why don't you grow up...
EDIT: IDIOT...
Click to expand...
Just stop. You started out by saying to use a different style lifter and calling me an idiot. Do not ever post a reply on any of my threads. I bet you are just a lot of fun to be around in the shop. Just leave me alone. Leave my thread alone. Respectfully, just stop.
 
Two sets of Comp lifters and still taps when started. 80 lbs pressure cold. Comp said they had a bad run from a vender. I had and old purple shaft cam kit here. Installed the lifters and its fine. Most lifters from venders come from the same manufacture. Pontiac take the same lifter as mopar. they have the same issue now.

Have them send another set and keep swapping them. until you get a good one. You can swap them without pulling the intake. they can be removed on the driver side rear or passenger side front they fit out at that spot on iron heads. Use a good magnet and a screw driver to move them back or front. No gaskets required. Aluminum heads must use the dist. hole. Its a process but can be done. We just did it. on this Demon.

DSCN0031.JPG
 
FWIW... been seeing soft hydraulic lifters of various sorts for 15 years now or thereabouts. Last was some on a Crane cam in a 340.....not the slowest ramp cam around but not fast for sure, and moderate springs (just under 300 lbs open). 2 lifters went soft in <1000 miles. Replaced. Never used to have to do this back in the day. Raced OEM hydraulics in an Opel CIH to over 7500 RPM all day long... never a peep from them.

Lighter oils make the symptoms worse, but I'd rather run the oil that is best for the rest of the engine and let the lifters chatter.
 
Mopar92 said:
Just stop. You started out by saying to use a different style lifter and calling me an idiot. Do not ever post a reply on any of my threads. I bet you are just a lot of fun to be around in the shop. Just leave me alone. Leave my thread alone. Respectfully, just stop.
Click to expand...
first off if you go to my picture in the upper left-hand corner and tap on that it will give you the option to ignore..
PLEASE USE IT!!
I just got to say I don't know how you miss quoted me twice in a row now but whatever way you want to take it to make yourself feel better.
I didn't suggest you use them I'm merely again for the third time if you can comprehend this was a little bewildered the fact that you used adjustable rockers and then got the pushrods for them and didn't go the extra step and just get the solid lifters.
I fully understand this is not what you want and I'm not suggesting you do it. Your car your money do it your way.
To me it's like getting all my snowmobile gear on and then putting on flip-flops... If you're going to go through all that why not put the boots on..
Honestly I hope you toss another lifter in there and it works fine...
And you do realize you called me an idiot respectfully..lol...
 
toolmanmike said:
Back to the lazy lifter. We never had those problems before. Can't those Chinese make stuff right? I wonder if it's tolerances or leaving out steps like deburring or cleaning.
Click to expand...

The Chinese make parts just like they write sentences in English.
(close, but something is off just enough to tell it wasn't an English speaking person that wrote it.):D

MOPAROFFICIAL said:
Buy a single mp lifter. I have some in the boxes new from the late 90's/early 2000's
Click to expand...

I have never had any problems with MP lifters and it didn't seem to matter what oil I used with them either.
Chinese made is almost right, like I said up there.^^^
 
TrailBeast said:
The Chinese make parts just like they write sentences in English.
(close, but something is off just enough to tell it wasn't an English speaking person that wrote it.):D



I have never had any problems with MP lifters and it didn't seem to matter what oil I used with them either.
Chinese made is almost right, like I said up there.^^^
Click to expand...
I think he said something about us lifters though and got all jumping mad about them not being Chinese?..
 
Mopar92 said:
Just stop. You started out by saying to use a different style lifter and calling me an idiot. Do not ever post a reply on any of my threads. I bet you are just a lot of fun to be around in the shop. Just leave me alone. Leave my thread alone. Respectfully, just stop.
Click to expand...

First off, take his advice. Put him on ignore. I did and things are a lot nicer.

Secondly, here's something to try just for kicks if you want to. Take that lifter back out and apart. Remove the preload spring and stretch it out some. I know......it sounds caveman and stupid, but I've tried it before and had it work. Just a suggestion. Good luck.
 
yellow rose said:
To answer your question...you MAY be able to pull it out, take the lifter apart and clean it and maybe it won't make noise.

That's the best answer there is. You can try a new lifter.

The biggest issue I've found with these lifters is the thinner oils. I know all the hydraulic roller lifter lovers are now claiming if you use the "correct" SUS oil, or CsT oil, whichever measure they use, everything will be unicorns and rainbows.

I'm saying I don't buy it. I know from dyno testing we could never make any hydraulic lifter engine happy with thin oils. If I was doing another hydraulic lifter engine, it would be set up to use 20w50 oil, and even though I know that sucks, it is what it is.

To watch the engine on the dyno, and look at the numbers from the dyno when the lifter is struggling to stay pumped up is amazing. I didn't figure it out on my own. It took some phone time and brain power to learn what happens.

They (they being the gurus who love to sell the idea that a hydraulic lifters internals are happy with cam lobes that are much faster than they were 15-20 years ago if you use a thin oil...I say they are NOT and I say they'd rather have a heavier grad oil) say the "new" lifters have might tighter internal clearances than ever before and this means that thin oil is the answer. I say bull.

I also say one other issue I've found using hydraulic lifters (especially hydraulic roller lifters where the lobes are pretty fast) is low oil pressure.

Low oil pressure is a power and RPM killer with hydraulic lifters. So is volume, but I'm not going there.

You didn't say what cam you have, so we have no idea what lobes you are using. You didn't say what oil you use, it's grade and how much idle oil pressure you have.

That's the best I have.
Click to expand...
I agree
 
j par said:
I think he said something about us lifters though and got all jumping mad about them not being Chinese?..
Click to expand...

My post didn't have anything to do with that part of the conversation.
It was just something I noticed about Chinese parts and Chinese English.
(Close, but not quite right)
 
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