Now I know why 904 was having issues

[Creedmoor]

Almost done cleaning parts with new stuff on the way. Tell me about these thrust washers. The one with the most wear was inside the driving shell, the other faced it on the outside. I'm guessing the inside one needs replacing. Seems like that could be a source of end play. Speaking of the driving shell, (hope I'm getting these part names right) do I need to remove the sun gear from it for proper cleaning? Not sure how to get at the snap ring holding it in there. Please advise.

 

[70aarcuda]

you can buy them individually or a whole kit..

mike it and see how thick it is...think they should be around .061 thick

 

[AJ/FormS]

Naw you can leave that sun assembled.
-There is a PLANETARY endplay spec, of .006 to .033.If this endplay is in spec, with those T-washers,you can reuse them. Just swap them around.They wear very,very slowly.That's why the spec is so generous. The spec has to be less than the height of the locating tangs tho, cuz if they spin, hmmm, if they spin, it's armageddon in there. heehee
-The DRIVETRAIN endplay also controls where those pesky cast rings ride and those rings direct the oil into the clutches and also where the pump oil goes.So the thrust washer in the center of the trans is supposed to push the entire front end forward to locate all those circuits.It's a generous spec of .030 to .089. That center washer is selective. There are three different thicknesses available.It is selective to compensate for wear in all the various front thrust washers, and for wear in the back bearing.So it's best to have a good back bearing.

BTW. those planetary T-washers can sometimes be installed wrong. They will fit into the planetary axles, and they will fit into the little rectangular cutouts provided for them. They only fit correctly to sit flat, in the cutouts.

 

[Creedmoor]

A washer kit was part of my order. I'ma having a helluva time getting the snap ring off the sun gear. These are decent pliers. Is there a trick? Its been kicking my a$$ for the last 20 minutes!

 

[70aarcuda]

I never take them apart...lol

 

[TrailBeast]

I never take them apart...lol

Me neither, cause there's no point in it unless the gear is getting replaced.

But I always used two picks.
One to pry the end of the ring out of gear teeth, and one to start the ring end up over the gear teeth.
Then you can just work it off there.

If no picks then a test light tip and a small flat screwdriver works.

I wouldn't sweat those washers either because they last forever and you can adjust the endplay with the little washer on the front end of the output shaft on top of the front planetary set.
They can be had in different thicknesses, and since that washer doesn't spin on the output shaft because of the odd shape in the center I have even spaced under it with a thin washer with zero problems.

Here in the picture they show three different ones with varied thickness, and you can see the center is shaped so it doesn't spin on the shaft but the end of the input shaft spins in it.

 

[Creedmoor]

Nevermind. Walked away, had a beer, went back and it came off in one or two tries. So I'm being too anal on cleaning? Can this all go back together with a light film of WD on most parts? Proper seal lube being used of course. Was thinking of wiping parts with new tranny fluid during assembly. Thoughts?

 

[AJ/FormS]

If you accidentally flip that gear, you are almost guaranteed to have a noisy tranny; so hurry up and put it back together, the same way you found it.Yeah I suppose taking that apart for cleaning could be interpreted as anal,heehee
As for me, I use ATF for a lube. WD40 is a WaterDispersant, and it took 40 tries to get it to even do that. I use it to lube my car outside door-locks, and..................Nope that's it. Keeps 'em freezing, cuz, well, it's a water dispersant.

 

[TrailBeast]

If you accidentally flip that gear, you are almost guaranteed to have a noisy tranny; so hurry up and put it back together, the same way you found it.

I was so close to mentioning that.

Wetting those friction surfaces is a good thing and I always had an old squeeze bottle of fluid on my bench just for that.
Washer surfaces, planet sets and sprags always got a good shot right as they went in.

Not sure what to think about the WD, as it might collect more dust and crap if the parts didn't go right in after.
You'll be fine with the assembly lube and fluid.

Sorry if I'm sticking my nose in where it's not wanted, as I know what it's like to have a bunch of opinions and AJ is totally capable.

 

[AJ/FormS]

TB
As are you.
And I enjoy every single post you make, in every single thread I find you.
Keep on, jumpin in

 

[TrailBeast]

TB
As are you.
And I enjoy every single post you make, in every single thread I find you.
Keep on, jumpin in

Glutton for punishment huh?

Back to topic

 

[Creedmoor]

Thanks guys - a lot. Going to have to digest the clearance tips. That was a knowledge dump for sure! I figured it probably mattered on putting the sun back in the same orientation, so I was careful to note that the snap ring Icouldn't really get at went on the inside. It's all back together-soaked in WD. Here in SW WA the humidity / temp gods are currently conspiring to mist my parts with water when blowing the carb cleaner and any debris off them. So maybe the WD is a good thing. All parts, hosed with WD or not are bagged. Anal and paranoid never hurt anyone. I just hope I don't need to clean all the WD off before assembly.

 

[TrailBeast]

Thanks guys - a lot. Going to have to digest the clearance tips. That was a knowledge dump for sure! I figured it probably mattered on putting the sun back in the same orientation, so I was careful to note that the snap ring Icouldn't really get at went on the inside. It's all back together-soaked in WD. Here in SW WA the humidity / temp gods are currently conspiring to mist my parts with water when blowing the carb cleaner and any debris off them. So maybe the WD is a good thing. All parts, hosed with WD or not are bagged. Anal and paranoid never hurt anyone. I just hope I don't need to clean all the WD off before assembly.

They should be ok after sitting as the solvent in the WD should have dissipated.
As long as it doesn't make the parts collect dust and crap before it goes back in.

 

[Creedmoor]

NOTHING is going to get dusty/dirty. Not after that brush and solvent marathon. It's a sickness. I did it the same way when I was about 7 when I would rebuild my sisters' bicycles. Sturmey Archer anyone?. Hey, those old coaster brakes used a wet clutch system too!

 

[Woods74]

Nice, just be sure to pressure test when your done building and get a nice heavy "THUD" at 25psi; grease the sealing rings:

[ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V_3UtOx4_kA"]Torqueflite 727 Clutch air pressure test - YouTube[/ame]

 

[Creedmoor]

I can't believe I got away with this. Had everything cleaned up and no trace left before the wife got home from choir practice. Undiluted simple green concentrate, hot water, an assortment of brushes, '80's Hair metal on loud and beer. The case is clean enough I would eat out of it!

 

[TrailBeast]

I can't believe I got away with this. Had everything cleaned up and no trace left before the wife got home from choir practice. Undiluted simple green concentrate, hot water, an assortment of brushes, '80's Hair metal on loud and beer. The case is clean enough I would eat out of it!

Classic
Women see things guys don't. so good luck actually getting away with that.
I have seen where guys loaded up their parts in the dishwasher.

 

[Creedmoor]

Look what showed up today! Sure looks nice compared to the pooched one. The rest of the rebuild parts will be here Monday and I can start putting it back together. Yay! I ended up going with a kit from Bulkpart.com (Makco) as they were the only ones that had the discontinued kit for a ‘71 tranny.

Speaking of ’71 trannies, I’m gathering that the tailshaft seal with boot (see pic) is hard to find. I’m not sure if it comes with the rebuild kit. Can the tailshaft bushing be removed by driving it inwards and are they supposed to be staked? Mine looks like it has been.

Can anyone tell me what the numbers on the bellhousing mean? Just curious.

 

[mguner]

You could look for a later model low first gear planet and sun gear since you went to all that trouble of taking the sun out of the drum....

 

[TrailBeast]

No, the rear bushing doesn't get staked in, and yes you knock it towards the inside to remove it.
The pump bushing DOES get red locktite and staked.(I like a small round screwdriver shaft for that) and then just smooth down the high spots staking it makes by slipping it on the converter snout and turn it back and forth a few times. (with lube of course)
Also note that the hole in the side of the bushing is supposed to line up with that slot in the tail housing so fluid gets to the bushing easily.
The damage you see on the end of the housing and seal area isn't a problem, just wipe some sealer on the inside of the seal area before the seal goes in.
Some people put the sealer around the outside of the seal, but I like the seal to push up a small dam of sealer in front of it when it goes in because it is way more likely to make a good seal.

Also make sure the spring in the seal stays in place when it gets installed, and the same with the pump seal (that can trash a pump right now) but on the rear seal it just hangs around the output shaft (but the seal will leak fluid).

A good amount of whatever assembly lube inside the backs of those seals will insure the spring stays in place when the seals get driven in.

They also make a pump seal retainer if you might be interested.
It slides over the pump seal snout and bites into the pump housing metal to make absolutely sure the pump seal doesn't pop out with high pump pressures.

When you put the pump halves together it's a good idea to put a good amount of assembly lube in the pump gears (like at least a full tablespoon) so it creates a nice vacuum when the engine fires up and insures the pump gets primed as soon as possible.
There is also a large band or ring that is used to align the pump halves before tightening the bolts for the two halves, but you can get by that with a couple of shouldered bolts through the pump to case bolt holes as you tighten those pump half bolts down.
The pump halves can only go together ONE way, and the pump to case bolt holes will all line up.
Pay close attention to the pump to case gasket as it can and has gotten reversed by someone not paying attention to exactly how the port holes line up (if this happens the trans will not move because a backwards gasket blocks the pump flow)
A little assembly lube on the gasket to case surface will hold it in place until the pump seats against it.
This means the gasket goes in the case when assembling and not on the pump.
Obviously the big square rubber sealing ring goes on the pump after it is assembled and a little lube on that surface of the case helps get the pump in easier so you don't risk breaking or cutting rings as it goes in by having to get rough with it.
Any Teflon rings should be literally glued in their grooves with lube before assembly so a tip doesn't pop out and get cut off on assembly.

Also remove any stickers on the converter, as when the engine gets warm it can soften the sticker glue and they can come off and get stuck on the snout between the snout and the seal lip. (rare but happens)

Just a few "heads up's" and tricks of the trade to keep the possibility of it having to come back out because of some stupid little thing.

 

[Woods74]

I can't believe I got away with this. Had everything cleaned up and no trace left before the wife got home from choir practice. Undiluted simple green concentrate, hot water, an assortment of brushes, '80's Hair metal on loud and beer. The case is clean enough I would eat out of it!

The girlfriend said she wants me to do this more often because the hot water and ATF cleans the drain so well!

 

[AJ/FormS]

It really helps to have the tranny standing up, when putting the guts back in. I do this by sticking the tailhouse into an old wheel rim, such that the output shaft is free to turn,and the seal does not get damaged. Then I open a big drawer of the work bench and lean the tranny into the 90*. After the pump is in,and the end play is adjusted, I put it back on the bench.

 

[Woods74]

Speaking of end-play, make sure you get that gear-train endplay nice and tight, .008 is a good number.

Also, the best way I've found to do the input shaft endplay is make sure the tailshaft is ON and the CLIP is SECURED to the groove in the output shaft bearing, set the trans weight on the tailshaft, then lift the input shaft with pliers to get your reading. Get it as close to minimum factory tolerance as you can. This goes for all of the tolerances. Test it both ways, suspend the tail shaft for fun and you'll see what I mean.

 

[Creedmoor]

Wow guys. I feel like I should be paying you a retainer or something. That's the kind of advice I need if this is going to be successful. The unfun parts is over and I enjoy putting things back together so really looking forward to my parts' arrival!

One more question for the day. Well, two: What kind of thread sealant am I wanting to use on the various small pipe plugs? I believe there are four of them - 1 each for the accumulator and front servo, and two that hold small shafts in. The tailshaft housing to case bolts all had red stuff on them near the ends. I'm guessing locktite, or do these bolts need a sealant too, as many are where it's "wet"?

 

[TrailBeast]

Wow guys. I feel like I should be paying you a retainer or something. That's the kind of advice I need if this is going to be successful. The unfun parts is over and I enjoy putting things back together so really looking forward to my parts' arrival!

One more question for the day. Well, two: What kind of thread sealant am I wanting to use on the various small pipe plugs? I believe there are four of them - 1 each for the accumulator and front servo, and two that hold small shafts in. The tailshaft housing to case bolts all had red stuff on them near the ends. I'm guessing locktite, or do these bolts need a sealant too, as many are where it's "wet"?

I like Teflon tape, but unless you are real careful to not let it get on the inside of the trans it's fine, as if some of it comes loose and gets caught up in something it can cause issue's with things like servo rings and piston seals inside the trans.
Better would be Teflon liquid or plain plumbing pipe dope.

Red Locktite could make it where you might not be able to get those little plugs out ever again if you needed to do pressure tests or something.
Blue Locktite would probably be ok if that's what you have.

The retainer is when you help the next guy.