Opinions on windage screen

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skrews

skrews

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Just curious to hear some opinions on this set up. Motor is a 3.58 stroke 360 that turns 7000 on gear change and 7200 or so out the back. Can't go wrong with the crank scraper IMO, but the windage screen is debatable. The screen should keep the crank from pulling the oil up out of the sump (Moroso deep pan). I cut off the lower skirt on the passenger side thinking the up stroke scraper will be more effective. Also thinking about folding a lip towards the crank on the driver side to make kind of another scraper.

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I like them. I think they are a good idea. That's a really nice lookin short block you got goin on.
 
What I was told (didn’t do it because I was in a hurry...never have time to do it right but plenty of time to do it 2 or 3 times right???) was the best tray was part solid and part screen.

I’m going to call Kevin at I-J and have him send me the screen he uses and I’ll add it to my tray.

IIRC he wanted the screen on the passenger side where the pairs of rods comes around.

I’ll call him and verify for sure. And I use a tray and a scraper because Kevin said to.
 
yellow rose said:
What I was told (didn’t do it because I was in a hurry...never have time to do it right but plenty of time to do it 2 or 3 times right???) was the best tray was part solid and part screen.

I’m going to call Kevin at I-J and have him send me the screen he uses and I’ll add it to my tray.

IIRC he wanted the screen on the passenger side where the pairs of rods comes around.

I’ll call him and verify for sure. And I use a tray and a scraper because Kevin said to.
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My biggest concern is to keep the crank from pulling oil out of the sump. I'd like to get away with running 5 quarts of oil. I cut away the screen on the pass side to let the oil escape the tray and be peeled off by the scraper and not drop back into the tray. I was thinking about emailing Kevin to see what he thought of this set up.
 
I modified mine like YR was talking about, due to getting the information from him. And I also have a crank scraper. 4" stroke, had to modify one stud due to hitting the milodon deep pan for clearance.

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skrews said:
My biggest concern is to keep the crank from pulling oil out of the sump. I'd like to get away with running 5 quarts of oil. I cut away the screen on the pass side to let the oil escape the tray and be peeled off by the scraper and not drop back into the tray. I was thinking about emailing Kevin to see what he thought of this set up.
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Getting ahold of Kevin is always worth it. Very VERY smart car he is.

I’d also ask him about pan baffles and such when running that little oil. I know that’s a huge deal because what oil is in the pan needs to be at the pickup.
 
Make sure the tray is close enough to the rotating assembly. I had to notch mine at the vents and opened/spread them a hair more.

Screen, never used one to know if it helps or not.
 
All the r&d they do with these things..and we're still modifying it. :)

I'm wondering if 'some' of the people who put all this work into this ..are anywhere near the arena of these issues to begin with.
 
MOPAROFFICIAL said:
All the r&d they do with these things..and we're still modifying it. :)

I'm wondering if 'some' of the people who put all this work into this ..are anywhere near the arena of these issues to begin with.
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It comes down to cost. Will the product sell at a price point at which you can make money, and do the updates matter to the majority of the buyers who will use the product.


Most guys won’t spend the money for the one like Matt did, when they can get a screen or solid tray for less. They will say “will I see any difference?”

And when you say “yeah, maybe 10 HP” they will laugh in your face and say they’d never notice that.

But, that 10 HP plus another 10 for a good scraper, plus 8-10 HP for good oil, plus another 8-10 because you can reduce the oil in the pan and you’ve now gained (saved actually) 36-40 HP.

It’s all part of a system. Any gains don’t stand alone.

And it’s hard to quantify the cost savings in parts. The oil has LESS air in it, oil pressure goes up so you can reduce the volume of the pump and save a horse or two...maybe.
 
yellow rose said:
It comes down to cost. Will the product sell at a price point at which you can make money, and do the updates matter to the majority of the buyers who will use the product.


Most guys won’t spend the money for the one like Matt did, when they can get a screen or solid tray for less. They will say “will I see any difference?”

And when you say “yeah, maybe 10 HP” they will laugh in your face and say they’d never notice that.

But, that 10 HP plus another 10 for a good scraper, plus 8-10 HP for good oil, plus another 8-10 because you can reduce the oil in the pan and you’ve now gained (saved actually) 36-40 HP.

It’s all part of a system. Any gains don’t stand alone.

And it’s hard to quantify the cost savings in parts. The oil has LESS air in it, oil pressure goes up so you can reduce the volume of the pump and save a horse or two...maybe.
Click to expand...

Everybody, especially new guys, need to read this over and over again until there saying it in there sleep.
Not only does this apply to the oil topic but also to the entire car. Engine, trans, rear, suspension, body, etc....
It works for the track and it will work for the street. The little things add up to big things.
 
MOPAROFFICIAL said:
All the r&d they do with these things..and we're still modifying it. :)

I'm wondering if 'some' of the people who put all this work into this ..are anywhere near the arena of these issues to begin with.
Click to expand...
I looked at the windage tray this way. Direct Connection put it in their small block bulletin to open up the windage tray because they found that otherwise it was hurting performance. If I recall correctly, it also says with a deep pan, the tray is not needed but there may have been more to that.

As far as the screen goes, it seemed like a neat idea and the stock eliminator guy who somewhat mentored me encouraged it too.
Did it actually make a difference on my car? That I don't know.
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One tip for those doing this. Don't forget about the dipstick notch - like I did. LOL

Underneath was some baffling - more for splash and slosh. Not sealed up enough to have much impact on long duration turns, braking or accel.
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Mattax said:
I looked at the windage tray this way. Direct Connection put it in their small block bulletin to open up the windage tray because they found that otherwise it was hurting performance. If I recall correctly, it also says with a deep pan, the tray is not needed but there may have been more to that.

As far as the screen goes, it seemed like a neat idea and the stock eliminator guy who somewhat mentored me encouraged it too.
Did it actually make a difference on my car? That I don't know.
View attachment 1715588139

One tip for those doing this. Don't forget about the dipstick notch - like I did. LOL

Underneath was some baffling - more for splash and slosh. Not sealed up enough to have much impact on long duration turns, braking or accel.
View attachment 1715588144
Click to expand...
The tray was there to keep oil off the crank in a stock pan motor. With a deep pan..it can actually capture oil= take more time to get back to the sump. So I open them up if i run one w/deep sump, no screens and I run are close enough that I have to notch for the rod bolts to pass.
There's a big difference in function when running your tray a 1/4-3/8 inch away and notching for rod bolt clearance..as opposed to a half inch away with room for it all.
Mopower to ya.
As for 10, 15, 20 and making 30 or 40hp from combining it all. ..uh hmm rethink that.The purpose of this ...is fixing wi dage and parasitic drag issues noticeably starting at let's say... 4500 rpm n evolving from there.
Is it really making more power...? or is it just holding more for longer...* my point.
Runners don't compete in loose clothes and wool sweaters for same reason. So they dont make more as they are dragging less sail...
What this is.. is undoing a byproduct of a wet sump. The motor makes the same power but isnt dragging. Look at it however ya want. Lol
 
I generally don't agree that the screen is there to keep the crank from pulling oil up out of the sump. I think it's there - as a uni-directional device - to help 'strip' oil away from the crank as it spins, and to direct is down towards the sump. I can envision some secondary benefit as an anti-pull-from-sump device, but not much. It has way too many holes for that.

Those trays that Matt show look nice, BTW.

I plan to use a screen and a scraper and no tray though nothing is final yet.
 
gregcon said:
I generally don't agree that the screen is there to keep the crank from pulling oil up out of the sump. I think it's there - as a uni-directional device - to help 'strip' oil away from the crank as it spins, and to direct is down towards the sump. I can envision some secondary benefit as an anti-pull-from-sump device, but not much. It has way too many holes for that.

Those trays that Matt show look nice, BTW.

I plan to use a screen and a scraper and no tray though nothing is final yet.
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I don’t think there is anything wrong with that. I do know when I last talked with Kevin, the discussion of pan depth came up. In fact, he asked what pan I had.

Since I’m running a Milodon Super Stock pan, my mind figured he say skip the tray. But he didn’t. He told me to either add some screens like Matt did, or to open it up in a couple of places.

The idea that a deep can can run without a tray (or screen) comes from the deep pan on a dyno making more power without a tray.

The problem is, people don’t understand the tool. A static test platform can’t account for oil movement in the pan. The tray (or screen) helps keep the oil off the crank as it moves around in the pan.

I just remembered one other thing Kevin said. Even with a deep pan, not running a tray will allow oil to come off the crank, hit the oil in the sump and it then splashes back up into the spinning crank and it does this until the crank is wrapped in oil.

The guy is very sharp, works at OE level developing oil control solutions and, he’s a very nice guy.
 
MOPAROFFICIAL said:
As for 10, 15, 20 and making 30 or 40hp from combining it all. ..uh hmm rethink that.The purpose of this ...is fixing wi dage and parasitic drag issues
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This is true to a point. The power gained doesn’t add up in that fashion but it does add up. It is not a simple 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 = 5. Sometimes it equal 3, sometimes it equals 6.
Truly correct in that is all about oil control. Controlling the oil needs to be done. Performance engine to race engine, it shows good results. Thus making more power. Lack of control, less power.
 
I think the problem with pans, like the stock pan, is the act as a barrier that prevents the oil from reaching the sump. When a tray is 1/2" off the crank, it can hold oil right where you don't want it.

My only gripe with a deep sump is the age-old issue of ground clearance. Another thing ignored by DynoKings
 
skrews said:
Just curious to hear some opinions on this set up. Motor is a 3.58 stroke 360 that turns 7000 on gear change and 7200 or so out the back. Can't go wrong with the crank scraper IMO, but the windage screen is debatable. The screen should keep the crank from pulling the oil up out of the sump (Moroso deep pan). I cut off the lower skirt on the passenger side thinking the up stroke scraper will be more effective. Also thinking about folding a lip towards the crank on the driver side to make kind of another scraper.

View attachment 1715587979 View attachment 1715587994
Click to expand...


Skrews, where did you get the screen, is it directional ? Nice work.
 
rumblefish360 said:
This is true to a point. The power gained doesn’t add up in that fashion but it does add up. It is not a simple 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 = 5. Sometimes it equal 3, sometimes it equals 6.
Truly correct in that is all about oil control. Controlling the oil needs to be done. Performance engine to race engine, it shows good results. Thus making more power. Lack of control, less power.
Click to expand...
Thus losing less power.
And dynos don't simulate the g force and slosh.
Without individual testing AND in a broad range of circumstances...its hoping at best, to each his own...and application.
 
RedB. said:
Skrews, where did you get the screen, is it directional ? Nice work.
Click to expand...

Its a Milodon 32255 for a SB Chevy thats been modified. The mounting holes just need elongated and the rear area by the oil pump cut off to fit. The one in my pics has been further cut up.
 
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