Opinions please. 833 Clutch issues

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Might be time to REALLY get back to basics

1....You have mentioned your linkage. There is no reason in the world why the linkage cannot be bolted into these cars and just work. Having said that, you might have mismatched year/ model parts, bent, broke, worn

2....Pressure plate.......Pressure plates CAN be defective, bad in that they don't release properly. If you are in a city with a local clutch rebuild shop, they will have a test setup. Might be worth a shot. You keep mentioning "over center." There is no such thing. The release fingers on a BB can go nearly down to scraping on the disc

3.....As mentioned, motor mounts / transmission mounts. But the thing is, that's what the Z bar is for. Make darn sure it is NOT deflecting.

Might be time to get in there with a camera and mirror if necessary, take some photos, and compare your linkage / lever positions with other installations.


I fought a release problem in a 70 Cuda with a scattershield towards the end of my Navy days, and finally, on teardown, it turned out that disk material had gotten wedged in between the PP an clutch cover, preventing clean release. I could shift the damn thing as fast without the clutch as I could using it.
 
67Dart273 said:
Might be time to REALLY get back to basics

1....You have mentioned your linkage. There is no reason in the world why the linkage cannot be bolted into these cars and just work. Having said that, you might have mismatched year/ model parts, bent, broke, worn

2....Pressure plate.......Pressure plates CAN be defective, bad in that they don't release properly. If you are in a city with a local clutch rebuild shop, they will have a test setup. Might be worth a shot. You keep mentioning "over center." There is no such thing. The release fingers on a BB can go nearly down to scraping on the disc

3.....As mentioned, motor mounts / transmission mounts. But the thing is, that's what the Z bar is for. Make darn sure it is NOT deflecting.

Might be time to get in there with a camera and mirror if necessary, take some photos, and compare your linkage / lever positions with other installations.


I fought a release problem in a 70 Cuda with a scattershield towards the end of my Navy days, and finally, on teardown, it turned out that disk material had gotten wedged in between the PP an clutch cover, preventing clean release. I could shift the damn thing as fast without the clutch as I could using it.
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1. Parts have been gone through several times and as I mentioned thats how I learned about the 72 and up ball stud.

2.It is a brand new set up from brewers but I know how it goes so it could possibly be a pressure plate issue. It does feel like the fingers are scraping on the plate.

3. My motor is pretty radical and does jump around alot. My Z Bar is not 100% perfect in alignment but nothing so radical to cause deflection and it worked great before. when Im under the car watching the clutch everything moves nice and smooth and seems to have more than enough throw.
Guess its time to tear everything out again.
4.
 
hi, I asked how thick he disc was. the reason is, I have a customer with same setup in his dart, had same problem you are having. ok, now, the disc was .340 thick, the mcloeld pressure plate is set for a .305 disc. this causes the finger heights to be too low, and they hit the disc. the cure , i did was to shim the pressure plate from the flywheel with .050 shims, this let the clutch perform perfectly. travel came back, clutch disengaged with out hitting, and it released as it should. mcloed and hays and ram used shims before. ram clutch has shims, thats where I got mine from. when you install too thick of a disc, the shims will get you back to correct setting. I run a clutch 340 duster. I've been though this problem before. I think you need to shim the pressure plate .050 and things will work lot better. byw, my customer bought his disc from brewers, and had a mcloed pressure plate. his disc was .340 thick. all pressure plates usually are set for a certain disc thickness. to thin or too thick affects the clutch operation greatly. in mcloeds catalog, they show what their clutches are set for.
 
I think everybody has covered everything, the length of your clutch fork should be 12"'
B & E are 10.5" and double check the mount inside the bell housing, there are two different ones, A body is different from B & E bodies, reference Brewer's site for the correct one.
 
perfacar said:
hi, I asked how thick he disc was. the reason is, I have a customer with same setup in his dart, had same problem you are having. ok, now, the disc was .340 thick, the mcloeld pressure plate is set for a .305 disc. this causes the finger heights to be too low, and they hit the disc. the cure , i did was to shim the pressure plate from the flywheel with .050 shims, this let the clutch perform perfectly. travel came back, clutch disengaged with out hitting, and it released as it should. mcloed and hays and ram used shims before. ram clutch has shims, thats where I got mine from. when you install too thick of a disc, the shims will get you back to correct setting. I run a clutch 340 duster. I've been though this problem before. I think you need to shim the pressure plate .050 and things will work lot better. byw, my customer bought his disc from brewers, and had a mcloed pressure plate. his disc was .340 thick. all pressure plates usually are set for a certain disc thickness. to thin or too thick affects the clutch operation greatly. in mcloeds catalog, they show what their clutches are set for.
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very interesting!!! this makes a lot of sense. I am def. going to investigate this. Thanks for the heads up and explination.
 
perfacar said:
hi, I asked how thick he disc was. the reason is, I have a customer with same setup in his dart, had same problem you are having. ok, now, the disc was .340 thick, the mcloeld pressure plate is set for a .305 disc. this causes the finger heights to be too low, and they hit the disc. the cure , i did was to shim the pressure plate from the flywheel with .050 shims, this let the clutch perform perfectly. travel came back, clutch disengaged with out hitting, and it released as it should. mcloed and hays and ram used shims before. ram clutch has shims, thats where I got mine from. when you install too thick of a disc, the shims will get you back to correct setting. I run a clutch 340 duster. I've been though this problem before. I think you need to shim the pressure plate .050 and things will work lot better. byw, my customer bought his disc from brewers, and had a mcloed pressure plate. his disc was .340 thick. all pressure plates usually are set for a certain disc thickness. to thin or too thick affects the clutch operation greatly. in mcloeds catalog, they show what their clutches are set for.
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Perfacar, if I have some one on the clutch in the car and I inspect the disc and can feel that its pretty loose, meaning it seems to have enough freedom, can it still be hitting like described in your situation?
 
hi, yes, you have to shim the pressure plate back, only way to fix this problem. once you shim it, then you will see how much better it works. we went through this with my customers same setup!! his was free before, somewhat. yet it would hit, on the disc at times. when it was shimmed back, everything worked as it should. you will get back clutch pedal travel. my thought , is shim it, .050.
 
Finger height would have been my guess. I suspected that with my first clutch that failed. I tried different finger adjustments on the car and it made quite a difference in the disengagement height and pedal feel. I wouldn't recommend that you adjust the finger height on the car like I did. Mine was already damaged so no big loss. Do you have a Clutchmasters near by? They helped me out with my new clutch that I bought from Brewers. He set it up on their machine and checked finger height with a dial indicator and checked disengagement also. Said it was good to go and it worked perfect. tmm
 
hi, I assume you have a stock bellhousing? you can loosen up all the pressure plate bolts, then add shims, rotate flywheel as you do this. then tighten them down,again. its done, now adjust your pedal travel.
 
perfacar said:
hi, I assume you have a stock bellhousing? you can loosen up all the pressure plate bolts, then add shims, rotate flywheel as you do this. then tighten them down,again. its done, now adjust your pedal travel.
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Ill give it a shot. Ill order the .050 Ram shims today.
 
After some more investigating....All linkage is moving and working, however the flywheel does not begin to move until almost at the bottom of the pedal. Strange because I watch the throw out move into the fingers but it doesnt start relasing 5the plate until very late.
So I spoke with a local expert and he suggested that either the throw out bearing is not hitting the fingers on center or the fingers are out of alignment. So it looks as though I am yanking this Transmission AGAIN!
 
So after picking the brain of my local expert he suggested that the pressure plate fingers (3) were either out of adjustment or the eye bolts have stretched. I went home and got a mirror out and started looking inside that pressure plate and sure enough he was correct! At least one of the fingers is 1/4 inch lower than the others. Now to figure out what happened and fix it. Can you adjust those fingers without removing the pressure plate?
Also plate from Brewers (Mcleod) couldnt have more than 500 miles on it.
 
If it still has warranty,, then send it back,, What the gent said about the eye-bolts stretching,, is usually shortly before it fails, and the eye-bolt breaks..

I used to take the good eyebolts outta my broken clutch covers,, to replace the ones I broke in the next cover.. lol - Hemis.. gotta luv/hate em..

Yes, you can adjust the fingers,, (but I made a jig), by adjusting the three eye-bolt-nuts,, but I've forgotten most of what I learned.. was decades ago

hope it helps
 
With that much of out of adjustment, What has that done to the clutch, flywheel, and pressure plate ?
 
inertia said:
Yes, you can adjust the fingers,, (but I made a jig), by adjusting the three eye-bolt-nuts,, but I've forgotten most of what I learned.. was decades ago
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inertia,
Is that the jig in the Chassis manual? A 10" diameter plate .310" thick. For setting fingers to 1.700"?
 
Daves69 said:
inertia,
Is that the jig in the Chassis manual? A 10" diameter plate .310" thick. For setting fingers to 1.700"?
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I'm sorry,, it was long ago, late 60's, I don't remember the specifics,, I thought it was a "Popular Hotrodding" article,, not sure....

I'll check my Chassis manual and see if it jogs my memory..

hope it helps
 
So after seeing the fingers all out of whack I called Wayne at Brewers performance and explained the situation. He got off the phone with me and called Mcleod. He called me back in 15 minutes and said that Mcleod was sending me a brand new unit at no charge. Kuddos to you Brewers Performance!
 
emnestor said:
So after seeing the fingers all out of whack I called Wayne at Brewers performance and explained the situation. He got off the phone with me and called Mcleod. He called me back in 15 minutes and said that Mcleod was sending me a brand new unit at no charge. Kuddos to you Brewers Performance!
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Good to hear you found the problem.
Great people to deal with. Another family owned Mopar parts business. tmm
 
So, after installing the replacement pressure plate from brewers....problem solved!!! My luck I would get the one defective one to begin with. After installing the new one I couldnt believe how the clutch felt. Since building this car it has never felt that way. Awesome. Nice smooth shifts and a great weekend of cruising. Uh Oh...what was that????
Oh thats just the 4th gear synchro going bye bye!!!!! This trans is going to be the death of me!!! It doesnt even have 1000 miles on it. The pressure plate issue cost me a ton of time and effort, but now I have to pull this trans again. 12th time is the charm....knock on wood
 
emnestor said:
So, after installing the replacement pressure plate from brewers....problem solved!!! My luck I would get the one defective one to begin with. ...............
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67Dart273 said:
Might be time to REALLY get back to basics..........

2....Pressure plate.......Pressure plates CAN be defective, bad in that they don't release properly..
Click to expand...

Very good. Been there, done that. I got into the same deal. Years ago, I installed a factory 'Vette 10.5 diaphragm unit in my 340 in the 70 RR body. No, they did not come with 340s, LOL

I got the "one unit" out of hundreds that would not release. Of COURSE this is a change from 3 finger, so you think of "everything else."

Finally, sent it in to a local clutch and brake outfit who had a press to check it, new press plate, worked GREAT.
 
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