Overdrive Options

[Hersbird]

What about the Keisler 4L60E kit? Does it require cutting? I don't see what the price is on that but I would bet a similar $2800 to the GV. The GV at least has the ability to split all the gears making a 6 speed auto, not just adding overdrive.

Oh... I just looked at some of the Keisler info, needs major cutting, hit and miss quality, and is more like almost $4000 by the time you get everything for the most basic transmission. GV definately beats that.

 

[magnumdust]

What about the Keisler 4L60E kit? Does it require cutting? I don't see what the price is on that but I would bet a similar $2800 to the GV. The GV at least has the ability to split all the gears making a 6 speed auto, not just adding overdrive.

Oh... I just looked at some of the Keisler info, needs major cutting, hit and miss quality, and is more like almost $4000 by the time you get everything for the most basic transmission. GV definately beats that.

I've heard mixed things about the gear splitting ability.

 

[1970Duster]

I'm just pointing this out and yes I would do this before you ask. Okay if you are willing to cut the tranny tunnel (no a ding with a hammer or cut a small section of brace for the 200R4) I talking the major surgery to install the 4l60/4l80, why limit yourself to the 4 speed auto? I'd opt to install a 6 speed auto and deal with the extra work needed. Really it's not the much more work to gain a double overdrive. I'm just saying that's all.

 

[Woods74]

Did you read the sticky link at the top of this fourm page for the 42RH swap? It's by far the cheapest, minimal cutting, and your in buisness. I'm going to do it too. Transmission is out in the garage.

 

[1970Duster]

Did you read the sticky link at the top of this fourm page for the 42RH swap? It's by far the cheapest, minimal cutting, and your in buisness. I'm going to do it too. Transmission is out in the garage.

Yep, got my 200R4 sitting in my garage right now ready to go.

 

[inkjunkie]

I'm just pointing this out and yes I would do this before you ask. Okay if you are willing to cut the tranny tunnel (no a ding with a hammer or cut a small section of brace for the 200R4) I talking the major surgery to install the 4l60/4l80, why limit yourself to the 4 speed auto? I'd opt to install a 6 speed auto and deal with the extra work needed. Really it's not the much more work to gain a double overdrive. I'm just saying that's all.

I think the six speed is based on a 4l80e. Mentioned to my buddy who is going to build mine some time and he just shrugged his shoulders and said what ever turns you on. It very well might be very similar to what he did with the Ford a4ld in the off road trucks, using od to split the gears. Except in the a4ld he was also able to use lock up in any forward gear. If this is the case it sort of is not really a double od, as the od is being used as a splitter........

 

[OldmanRick]

You must consider the rear gear you are currently running?
Ex: 3.21 with the 200R4's .67 od gives you a 2.15 in 4th. Might be a little lazy even at highway speeds.
With the above ^^^^^^^^^and a 26" tire, you'd be about 1700 @ 60mph.

This is a great discussion on auto od's, but we need some info from the OP. Talk to us LJS30. What's your current gear and tire diameter? What's your budget? This could get pretty pricey and if your only gonna gain a few mpg you might be better off just using a taller tire and let it eat?

 

[Dodge74]

You can build it yourself with ordering the correct parts or you can have a trusted tranny shop do it. There is not floor cutting, just on cut on the brace under the car.

Are you running one of the 200R4's ??????

 

[1970Duster]

Are you running one of the 200R4's ??????

No not yet. Mopar To Ya has the 200R4 installed in his Dart Sport, and had to cut the brace to make it fit. If you look at his thread, it has pictures of where/what you have to cut to install it. I have my 200R4 sitting/waiting in my garage. A 200R4 can be build to withstand a SH!TLOAD of HP.

 

[LJS30]

You must consider the rear gear you are currently running?
Ex: 3.21 with the 200R4's .67 od gives you a 2.15 in 4th. Might be a little lazy even at highway speeds.
With the above ^^^^^^^^^and a 26" tire, you'd be about 1700 @ 60mph.

This is a great discussion on auto od's, but we need some info from the OP. Talk to us LJS30. What's your current gear and tire diameter? What's your budget? This could get pretty pricey and if your only gonna gain a few mpg you might be better off just using a taller tire and let it eat?

Well I am running 225/70/14's and I believe I have 3.55's for gearing. My goal is to make my Dart a highly functional yet very fun to drive street machine. That means I plan to actually use it for forty mile round trip commutes about three times a week. Keep in mind this will be in Southern California freeways so I need to cruise comfortably at 70/75MPH. I have a mild 318 with a 260H with an edelbrock carb and intake combo.
As for funds I am by no means a blue blooded high roller. I'm thinking in the range of two grand or so for this project. However if more money is needed to do this right I'll just have to save longer.

 

[zijmer]

lots of good feedback on this thread, i like it. i can see for some, if your starting with a striped down roller, it doesn't really matter what you do. it's probbly cheaper. but the guy who has a pristine 100% mopar in his driveway doesn't want to cut anything, no matter how minor. to him it's bolt on or nothing. by the way, the wilcap adapter is $575.00 usd. art carr's ultimate 200r4 claiming to handel 750hp + is 2695.00 w/o convertor. thats another $600.00. i know someone will chime in and say they can do it cheaper, but remember, gm didn't use this tranny in anything larger than a 305 for a reason.

 

[OldmanRick]

Well I am running 225/70/14's and I believe I have 3.55's for gearing. My goal is to make my Dart a highly functional yet very fun to drive street machine. That means I plan to actually use it for forty mile round trip commutes about three times a week. Keep in mind this will be in Southern California freeways so I need to cruise comfortably at 70/75MPH. I have a mild 318 with a 260H with an edelbrock carb and intake combo.
As for funds I am by no means a blue blooded high roller. I'm thinking in the range of two grand or so for this project. However if more money is needed to do this right I'll just have to save longer.



Thanks for the response. With the 3.55's i think your good with the OD. Your engine is fairly mild and that's actually a plus because the rpm drop won't effect performance like it would in a high strung small block. I've been around the 200R4 in several cars and it's a good trans, although a adapter would have to be used. A Mopar OD may be a little more cost effective but either way i think your budget is easily obtainable. One plus is you don't need a super strong trans, so just a good rebuild with some decent clutches will suffice. Good luck on what ever you choose and kudos for driving it as much as possible.

 

[BRONZEBEE]

Did you look at the install at the top of the drivetrain tech page.I installed a a500 with no floor cutting.You still have to remove the cross brace and brace it with a plate.
After watching Mopar to ya install the 2004r and the adapter to install the transmission to the block,i would look at the final price of the install.
In both directions you go you will have to make your own cross member and a new drive shaft,but you can bolt up the a500 and the starter and use the stock tv linkage from a 904 set up and safety switch(if you have it hooked up)
Gdonovan is driving his car with a a500 installed and gave a break down on the cost.
I think your biggest cost will be the transmission,if i was closer i could help you with that but there is a little distance between us.

Good luck with your project.:burnout:

 

[2 Darts]

Some one responded in another thread that just because something can be done doesn't mean it should be done.

The subject of the 200R4 came over in /6-ville. I did some research on the 200R4 and learned that the unit is good for up to 500 hp. The rest ... . Well, just look at the comparison photos if you don't care to read. Make up your own mind.

http://www.webrodder.com/article.php?AID=426&SID=6

 

[Mopar to ya]

I put a 200R4 in my Dart Sport and consider it the best money I have spent on the car. And I have spent a lot! Very little mods needed. Last year i was 4000 rpm at 70 mph, this year I am 2800 rpm at 80 mph. Better overall gearing than a 904 or 727 and overdrive to boot. Here is a link to my install thread. http://www.forabodiesonly.com/mopar/showthread.php?t=174333 I know 2 Darts talks about being good to 500hp, but mine is good to 750 and they are built to work in a lot of 1200hp Grand Nationals. It all depends on how high you want the build to go. It's worth it, believe me.

 

[zijmer]

well, the original post was od options and by now iam sure we have given ljs30 plenty to think about. on another note, lets kick it up a notch. has anyone been following muscle car on spike? their building a 74 dart sport with a new style hemi, blown, with a (cough cough) tci 6spd. iam waiting for that roadtest.

 

[UOP]

If you're just looking for "a number" for the 2004r swap, here is a reasonable breakdown of what it will cost. This is going from my own personal experience with what I did to get a 2004r in my car.

Trans - I did a ton of research before buying my trans, and this is who I wound up going with. This guy is well known in the Grand National world for his 2004r's. I spent quite a bit of time on the phone with Lonnie and the Stage 1 trans is what he recommended, but I chose Stage 2 for room to grow.

http://extremeautomatics.com/transmissions/2004r.html



Adapter - I went with Wilcap for the adapter, and it's a really nice kit but pretty expensive. Since you're running a 318 it would be $575, but for those reading this, it's an additional $100 to balance the flexplate for a 360. The only thing I had to modify was when the mopar starter hit the bellhousing, so it just needed a little trim. The TCI kit is cheaper, but you have to cut the adapter plate.

Wilcap:
[ame]http://wilcap.com/318350.PDF[/ame]

TCI:
http://www.tciauto.com/tc/318-360-chrysler-to-chevy-transmission-adapter-kit-6-hole.html



Converter - This is one of those questions that you'll get 10 different answers by asking 10 different people. There are several good companies to choose from for a converter, but this is what I chose due to them being a vendor with a good rep on another site I visit.

http://www.revmaxconverters.com/index.php/torque-converters/car-torque-converters/2004r.html


You'll also need the TV cable setup. Without knowing what sort of throttle/kickdown bracket you're using I can't tell you exactly what you need, but for sure you need the geometry correction plate for your Edelbrock carb.

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/TCI-376710/



Now add the cost for the TV cable and bracketry (~$50), a driveshaft (~350), DEX VI trans fluid (~$80), and $100 for misc materials to build a crossmember and whatever else it takes to get it installed.


I didn't add it up but that's roughly $3,000 to make the swap. Compare that to a Gear Vendors unit for $2800 it seems like a wash, but unless you've already got a built trans and a good converter the 2004r swap still comes out ahead imo. Not to mention the ability to lock the converter while going down the highway.

Just some stuff to think about.

 

[LJS30]

Well I am running 225/70/14's and I believe I have 3.55's for gearing. My goal is to make my Dart a highly functional yet very fun to drive street machine. That means I plan to actually use it for forty mile round trip commutes about three times a week. Keep in mind this will be in Southern California freeways so I need to cruise comfortably at 70/75MPH. I have a mild 318 with a 260H with an edelbrock carb and intake combo.
As for funds I am by no means a blue blooded high roller. I'm thinking in the range of two grand or so for this project. However if more money is needed to do this right I'll just have to save longer.



Thanks for the response. With the 3.55's i think your good with the OD. Your engine is fairly mild and that's actually a plus because the rpm drop won't effect performance like it would in a high strung small block. I've been around the 200R4 in several cars and it's a good trans, although a adapter would have to be used. A Mopar OD may be a little more cost effective but either way i think your budget is easily obtainable. One plus is you don't need a super strong trans, so just a good rebuild with some decent clutches will suffice. Good luck on what ever you choose and kudos for driving it as much as possible.

Thanks for the input. Everyone is throwing around some high horsepower numbers but must remember I'm talking a mild daily driven street machine. I'm probably making 300HP at most.

 

[OldmanRick]

Thanks for the input. Everyone is throwing around some high horsepower numbers but must remember I'm talking a mild daily driven street machine. I'm probably making 300HP at most.

I'll admit i may be a little behind the times as far as trans costs. I did take into account your combo and that's what led to my response. I was thinking more along the lines of a good reputable local shop rebuild with a few HD parts would suffice. That's the reason i thought the 2k figure was obtainable. Guess i should't be surprised, but when i searched around some of the prices of the well known shops for the 2004R really shocked me.

 

[LJS30]

I'll admit i may be a little behind the times as far as trans costs. I did take into account your combo and that's what led to my response. I was thinking more along the lines of a good reputable local shop rebuild with a few HD parts would suffice. That's the reason i thought the 2k figure was obtainable. Guess i should't be surprised, but when i searched around some of the prices of the well known shops for the 2004R really shocked me.

What kind of prices are we talking about? I remember when the rebuild on the OD on my Lincoln cost me about $1500.00 bucks from a solid shop here in my town.

 

[OldmanRick]

I think i'll have to bow out of this discussion until i get more up to date. I honestly thought no more then a grand could put together a street trans. That just doesn't seem to be the case these days.

 

[inkjunkie]

I think i'll have to bow out of this discussion until i get more up to date. I honestly thought no more then a grand could put together a street trans. That just doesn't seem to be the case these days.

Good lock up convertors are going to run close to that......

 

[abodyjoe]

I honestly thought no more then a grand could put together a street trans. That just doesn't seem to be the case these days.

lol.. not in the mopar world.. let us know if you figure out how to get a OD in a mopar at GM prices

 

[inkjunkie]

lol.. not in the mopar world.. let us know if you figure out how to get a OD in a mopar at GM prices

A good lock up convertor for a 4l80e is $900 or so, so even in the GM world it aint cheap. CircleD is 850-900 for a single disk and 1100 for a multi disk. While I am sure you can find one for less is it really gonna be worth it? I tried to save a few bucks when I had the trans built in my truck, did not take me long to end up having to pony up the money for a good convertor. I know a lot of folks have issues cutting there cars up, but for those of us that started with slant 6 3 on the tree cars who cares? From a dollar stand point what is it worth all original? And how much would it take to restore a car to get it to that point? I am wondering, size wise, how does the Ford AODE/4r70w compare to the gm200? There is a guy up in Canada, Lentech, that builds some pretty wicked aode/4r70w hybrids that can withstand a bucket load of power. Hoping when I go to AZ next week that my trans buddy has anaode and a 200 there so I can see.......

 

[LJS30]

Wow guys all this non-Mopar items going into our cars is making me remember the old days. The days when putting something non-Mopar in your car was blasphemy.